Indoor training strategies

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by aperezy, Nov 16, 2016.

  1. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Hello

    I am a road cyclist and I just bought my first indoor trainer, a KK Road machine (fluid resistance).

    I would like to know about training strategies, I am not sure how many times per week and/or training time is required? or should I try to follow the same Road training strategy.

    I know that there are many training paid options including KK, but I would like some recommendations and guidance before I sign ans spend more money.

    Thanks

    Alfredo
     


  2. workingguy

    workingguy Member

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    Both zwift.com and trainerroad.com give you a month-to-month option. Zwift is $10/mo and TrainerRoad $12/mo. Zwift gives you 2 weeks free (50km) but you go through that in a couple of rides. Zwift gives you real opponents on the internet 24x7, organized rides and races, but trainerroad gives you like a life-cycle treadmill interface (for pre-programmed intervals). If you don't like it just use it for a month and cancel. I use both. And I don't work for them.
     
  3. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Thanks I am checking TrainerRoad now...Regards
     
  4. workingguy

    workingguy Member

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    http://zwift.com/events is the link for the organized rides & races. It's not obvious from the home page. It's more for the social aspect of cycling vs trainerroad is just by-yourself training. Although you have the option of purchasing cycling videos - usually $15.
     
  5. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Thanks again...doing my homework now!
     
  6. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I have been riding trainers since 1970 and have discovered that you can do all forms of training on a trainer. And, trainer rides are much more efficient than road rides. You selected a good trainer, so you must have done your homework. If you don't have a power meter, one problem is being able to create a consistent resistance. Tires, tire pressure, tire wear and press-on force all contribute to inconsistent resistance from day to day. But, you'll figure that out over time. One suggestion: get a good fan. As to specific workouts, I would do whatever you would do on the road. I have done everything from 30sec on/off intervals all the way to 120mins at constant power and everything in between. I'm not into simulated ride graphics, but I have an awesome audio/video setup and a bunch of ride playlists. Currently, my ride room wish list includes temperature control down to 35F and altitude control to 25K feet.
     
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  7. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Thanks very helpful. Where did you get your videos? I saw several videos on youtube? Thanks again
     
  8. kopride

    kopride Member

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    I keep it simple. Fan, fluid trainer, and power meter. And I distract myself with some TV show or movie. 2x20 sweet spot intervals are my go to staple during the winter. Beginning in late February or March, I start doing some shorter interval work midweek and hoping for mild weather to get some longer rides in on the weekend.

    Particularly in the early stages, some people find lots of trainer riding mentally taxing. For longer steady work, like a 2x20, I try and mix in standing at a lower cadence higher resistance every five minutes for a minute or so to break up the monotony.

    Good luck
     
  9. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Thanks
     
  10. workingguy

    workingguy Member

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    It's good that you can crank out the power without artificial motivation. I need something to trick my body into doing something my mind thinks it can't. I notice that I've been able to get a higher power than if I'm just watching the Watts number.
     
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  11. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I don't mean cycling videos, although I like to watch the mountain and TT stages of the major tours. I was referring to my streaming video alternatives through Netflix, Roku and Apple TV. The ride playlists I was referring to are music playlists. I have a playlist for just about any workout duration, and I like to queue them up for an easy start and steady buildup, with the room-shaking rock pieces at the end. I pay special attention to the beats in the music because I like to ride at a very specific cadence and it's nice when the music has a beat that synchs with my preferred cadence.
     
  12. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I actually find that after I get warmed up, I normally need to intensely focus on managing my effort other than the recovery segments. I have a CompuTrainer, so I don't need to worry about riding to a power target, but I do like to ride to a cadence target. I even use a metronome to help me nail my cadence exactly.
     
  13. kopride

    kopride Member

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    That's probably CT specific since power stays level with changing cadence through the machine adding resistance. On a trainer with a fluid trainer and power meter, (or KK with speed and a conversion chart) you are busier maintaining power levels and need to watch your meter or speed. I generally try and find the gear that lets me keep my power target at about 90 rpms. I also set my unit to show 3sec power so you are not reacting to every blip I do experiment with different gears and cadences to maintain a power target. Sometimes I will be riding a range from a higher cadence (105) on the small front ring (lower resistance) to the high 70s with the big ring and small cog while currently keeping a 239-250 Watt Target for 20 minutes. You can even simulate a hill by going in your highest gear and stand. And for shorter harder intervals, you are pushing bigger gears at varying cadences to get watts of 300 plus.

    I've ridden a CT and there is something to be said for the set the power and just ride, but I do find the fluid trainer to have a more natural feel even though you are watching your meter more. I've been checking out that cyclOps Hammer direct drive trainer to see when it starts shipping. It looks like it incorporates some of the best features of indoor training in one easy package. DC Rainmaker has a nice website where he reviews trainers. He uses the CT as the gold standard for solid long lasting construction but is not a big fan of the software or set up.
     
  14. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I agree with DC Rainmaker's comments about the CT. It is rock solid but heavy. However, when I got it about 10 years ago it was the only option for an ergometer trainer since they had just stopped marketing and supporting the Velodyne (my first choice). I got around some of the CT's shortcomings by building a custom platform for it and using a torque wrench for setting press-on force. Also, I normally manage it from a laptop so I'm not really constrained by the software. It is nice to not have to manage resistance with gearing and cadence.
     
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  15. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Thanks
     
  16. workingguy

    workingguy Member

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    Regarding artificial training graphic stimulation:
    Oct 7: in 1st week of training, attempt threshold intervals, but target power too high, back off to 160.
    upload_2016-11-19_15-41-16.png

    Nov 19: after 2 weeks of using training software (since Nov 4) with embedded videos (music synched to the effort level)
    upload_2016-11-19_15-44-31.png

    Would I have made those gains anyway? Maybe. I did make some gains prior to Nov 4. 160W is a relatively untrained state for me, so initial gains would be very dramatic. But the software helps me push harder than I would otherwise. But this is a milestone, I broke through 3.0 W/kg for 20', my best was 4.0 W/kg 10 years ago. Just my .02, N=1. This may not work for or be needed by everyone.
     
    #16 workingguy, Nov 19, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
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  17. aperezy

    aperezy New Member

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    Interesting and many thanks!
     
  18. bulaboy

    bulaboy New Member

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    Hi Kopride. My set up is just like yours except that I don't watch the TV. I find that if my attention wanders, my effort drops. For several years i didn't have the power meter either. Just used my speed as a proxy for power. I've found the power meter is of more value to me when doing L5 efforts or higher. More precision.
     
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  19. kopride

    kopride Member

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    Very clever use of a torque wrench! I just finished our local cyclocross series--first season racing cross, so I had to register as a Cat 4/5 and ride with kids who are half my age, many of whom are part of a local college cycling team. (There is a masters Cat 4/5 but it goes at the end of the day; and the morning Cat 123 Masters are blazing fast experienced racers). Aside from having to chase very young fast road racers who have not moved up yet into the higher categories of cross, it was about the most fun I've had on a bike in years. Next year, I will have to just suck up blowing off the better part of a Sunday waiting till 3 or 4pm to finish racing and ride with the older guys in the afternoon. It's bad enough enduring such a sufferfest without having to kill yourself just to avoid being lapped by a 21 year old.

    It was very interesting to see the difference between trainer riding and this type of racing. The pacing of this type of race isn't always replicated or trained properly on my set up just doing a pre-set of intervals and trying to simulate resistance with gear changes. I wonder whether a random type program/race simulator might be better. We'll see this winter.

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    I am planning on buying the CycleOps Hammer as soon as it becomes available and loading some training simulations. I also cannot recommend riding a cross bike during the winter months enough even when temperatures are below freezing. There is a big difference being out in the cold and trying to average close to 20mph in the wind; and riding on grass or in the woods at the same workload at 12-15. It also is less risky with black ice and other winter road hazards.
     
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  20. Lucy.P

    Lucy.P New Member

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    Have you thought of incorporating some gym work into your indoor training plan. If so, take a look here - this article is the best i've found with really good advice for cycling specific gym training. These guys are professionals and seem to know what they're talking about - worth a read ;)
     
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