Indurain's doctor says TDF too hard!

Discussion in 'Doping in Cycling' started by Flyer, Feb 25, 2005.

  1. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Old news, same mandated doping theme, this time from the mouth of Miguel Indurain's own doctor----also associated with Lance Armstrong & USPO in 2001.

    By Peter Cossins, October 12, 2001. Read it at your own peril!

    http://
    eurocyclingnews.rivals.net/default....=2&stid=8214570

    Carlos Barrios Pitarque worked with Pedro Delgado, Miguel Indurain and Lance Armstrong & USPO.

    Dr. Pitarque felt, after 20 years of work in pro sport, that was no longer possible to "win medals without resorting to special medicines"

    He also stated that many products on the banned list should not be because their prohibition sometimes prevented athletes from receiving the best medical care.

    He found it strange that certain products that are permitted, such as Salbutamol in inhalers used by asthmatics because of clear performance advantages they give athletes. "Curiously, there are increasing numbers of asthmatics winning medals."

    The doctor said that modren cycling, particularly the major tours are too demanding on the health of pro riders.

    "a Pyrenean mountain stage is much more damaging to the health of a rider than the administration of therapeutic doses of substances that are considered prohibited."

    Hmmmm? Is this a justification for doping?

    Lance Armstrong knows this answer.

    Or as some may claim, can Indurain & Armstrong doctors be trusted to speak the truth? Maybe Carlos is jealous or embittered? NOT!

    The truth is out there for all to learn.
     
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  2. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    The trauma doping truth re: pro cycling today

    By Peter Cossins, October 12, 2001.


    Lance Armstrong yellow wrist band wearers read this at your own peril! You will not like it.

    The full link address:

    http://eurocyclingnews.rivals.net/default.asp?sid=1041&p=2&stid=8214570


    Why would a TDF multi-Championship physician say this stuff if were not true?

    Delgado, Indurain & Armstrong---that's 12 TDF wins and a lot of medical attention.
     
  3. luis correia

    luis correia New Member

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    :confused:
    I believe the problem behind all this discussion is that the sports doctors are a group of doctors who did not receive the recognition and the glorification they think they deserve.
    Their job recovering the athletes has not the midia lights except when it failed and sometimes one of them comes to the papaers and say things like those.
    I´ve seen so many athletes that makes anything to recover and they will find a "doctor" to help them.
    It´s a matter of ethics.
    In the Armstrong case I thing there are so many people taking care of him in great hospitals and no one says nothing!!!! (it´s almost unbelievable, thinking of the way the press works).
     
  4. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Another two years old quote:
    Sebastian Coe (twice Olympic Gold metal winner in the 1,500 run, 1980 & 1984) said on January 23, 2003:

    "spectators could be watching competiton between chemists"

    and: "We will always have a doping problem. It's like the arms race"

    Is Sebastian Coe credible?


    Former USPO team doctor, Prentice Steffen, MD --he was with the squad from 1993--when it was called Subaru Montgomery (Thom Weisel's fixed-income trading firm was called Montgomery Securities) and later when the squad morphed into USPO, until 1996.

    Dr. Steffen says that two of his riders approached him for illegal drugs during the 1996 Tour of Swiss. It was Tyler Hamilton & Marty Jermiesin (sp). The doctor said he was doing all he could and refused to change the medical program to include illegal drugs--he refused to be involved in that.

    He was fired, shortly thereafter and threatened by Mark Gorski & Thom Weisel's attorneys (Keesal & Young) to remain silent. He was scared off for eight long years.

    Is Prentice Steffen, MD believable?

    Kevin Livingston was a Michele Ferrari client--and his seized medical records revealed a hematocrit ration yo-yoed from 41.2% in December 1997 to 49.9% in July 1997, just a few days prior to the TDF.

    It's legal to "top-off" your hormone levels to the extent that they cannot be measured or to the maximum allowed. How else can you account for this maximum limit Hct achievement?

    Why are Ferrari's clients blood levels yo-yoing?


    Joseph Califano, head of National Center for Addiction & Substance Control said: " There is a mindset that you can't compete successfully in the Olympics today if you are not using dope."

    and; " I think you get the silent treatment from people when they have something to hide."


    Dr. Wade Exum, former Head of Doping Control at the USA Olympic Committe until the 2000 games, said;

    "drug tests, done at random during training and competition, routinely crossed his desk, showing athletes were doping." "In his final year at the US Olypic Committee there were positive tests for anabolic steroids in badmitten. I had anabolic steroid positives in shooting as well."

    He estimated that fewer than one in seven American athletes who tested positive for banned substances, was ever sactioned.

    Wade was told that was a serious program to eliminate doping from US sports. Exum now believes "it was all a sham."

    Are Wade Exum & Joseph Califano credible?

    Are Greg Lemond & Andy Hamspten credible?

    Is Miguel Indurain's doctor to be believed too?


    These are people in a position to know and who gain nothing by whistle-blowing.
     
  5. mjolnir2k

    mjolnir2k New Member

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    You must spend a vast amount of time in your (pathetic) desperate search for PROOF of LA doping. Guess you don't have much else to do huh? Try this, put down the back issues of VeloNews, sign off of GOOGLE, put down the mouse and go outside. Do you have any thoughts of your own, or are you reliant on others' quotes?

    You might be suprsed to find that there is a whole wide world out there and more important things to focus energy on than your single minded attacks on a man you have never met, nor will ever likely meet.
     
  6. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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  7. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    When the chief of the UCI (International Cycling Union) acknowledges that cheating and doping have been a part of organized sport since the 4th century BC---you must "wake up and smell the caffeine".


    "methods to create feelings of euphoria, decrease fatigue and increasing strength."

    He is in a position to know--but walks a political line between commercial interests and "doing the right thing".

    Hein Verbruggen would know.


    http://www.bloodline.net/stories/storyReader$3144


    Unfortunately, knowing that the riders are doping is not the same as being able to prevent it.
     
  8. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    More doping news:


    Today it was reported that Roland Green, champion mountain biker --and part-time USPO road racer---tested positive for "prednisolone"--a corticosteroid.

    Boy those corticosteroids are popular, aren't they?

    Roland is explaining that he neglected to post his TUE and astma inhaler in a timely manner. Lots of paperwork in cycling. (May 2004)


    A brief review of other doping miscues:

    Filip Meirhaeghe--World Champion MTN biker and EPO admitted user. (summer 2004)

    Chelsea Redwood, women Mtn biker and stimulant user (phentermine) (9-26-2004)

    Paola Pezzo, Worl Champion Mtn biker and absuer of the anabolic steroid Nandrolone. (9-06-1997)

    Maria Luisa Calle Williams, bronze medalist in the points race at the 2004 Olympics----positive for a stimulant. (August 2004)

    Anthony Peden, Kerin rider from New Zealand, positive for Triamcindone at the 2004 Olympics.


    What does it prove? That the French are correct when they write on the roads of the TDF; "Tous Dope", everybody's doped!

    That is correct, the women, the men, the mountain bike champions, the track sprinters, the track endurance riders, all countries and the best elite athletes.

    Indurain's doctor is correct, special medicines are required for a medal.

    They even dope in Olympic badmitten.

    I wonder if Lance is aware of this?
     
  9. figjam

    figjam New Member

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    I am not a LA fan at all, but I am curious, what are you actually trying to say? That all athletes (or pro cyclists) are doping? Who the F*** are you to make such accusations. Iam sick and tired of reading your regurgetated (sp) facts and quotes, that we've all read or heard at some time or another. If you have such a close relationship with these riders as you seem to think you do, then why don't you engage them in a conversation and interrogate them yourself? Just pick up your cell phone.... I'm sure you've got all their numbers on speed dial.



    Enough of your speculation and assumptions. Sure there have been many positive tests and there will be many more... no doubt, but this world of ours has many other problems, much larger than the one you speak of. So cut your f***ing whining and get a life!:p



     
  10. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Ah---nice curse words! Another classy post from a critic.

    Which world problem is greater than deception drug abuse and financial fraud--all tied together?

    Lance is not the issue, sporting fraud & doping are. And the athletes are not the problem---it's the public and it's lack of awareness that enanbles it.

    This doping and sporting fraud matter involves hundreds of thousands of people--many doping, many being paid to facilitate it, and tens of billions corporate institutional dollars. It is international in scope and effects both children and adults alike.

    If there is a bigger problem in the world today---what is it? And why aren't you solving it rather than attempting to criticize those who seek disclosure?

    Quit your whining and do something constructive.
     
  11. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Not only is the Tour de France too hard---so too is the lesser known: Tour of Guatemula.

    Last fall's tour turned up nine (9) positives, six in the top ten in GC, and all top four riders.

    7 EPO positives
    1 anabolic steroid
    1 illegal stimulant

    I wonder how come these lesser riders cannot win w/o drugs. Why can't the riders with better work ethics simply blow by addicts on the hills and time trials. (this of course presumes that dopers are not hard working, instead only focused on winning)

    Is the Tour of Guatemala a more accurate portrayal of the illeagl doping truth in cycling than is the TDF?
     
  12. chriskaiser

    chriskaiser New Member

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    Of course he isn't saying that all pro athletes are doping.

    Flyer,

    keep on keeping on, I agree with the information that you are trying to bring to the awareness of the average uninformed mass-media taught person.

    It seems that these topics dont get many replies in the forums (well, except for the "is lance doping poll"), touchy subject still I guess...

    These "critics" to the subject really don't ever have much to say in their defence, because, well... there's not much that can be said.
     
  13. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Thanks Chris:

    Here's what Giorgio Squinzi, Owner of Mapei speaking of his sadness at quitting the sport after 10 years and 600 victories!!!

    He felt a personal failure and that he had been beaten by the culture of doping. This overshadowed his 600 plus wins in the sport, including his favorite---Franco Ballerini's Paris-Roubaix win in 1995.


    "I tried through every method to fight the problem, to save cycling and make it credible and clean. But I lost. My Team, Mapei won more than 600 races on the road; on the other hand, morally, I was subjected to a personal reversal," Squinzi stated.

    His turning point came on May 30, 2002 at the Giro di Italia, when images of Mapei staff were lead away in handcuffs by police were flashed on CNN.

    He then began receiving phone calls from Mapei disturbed customers and worried sponsors.


    So, let's get our facts (FACTS, not opinions or rumors) straight.

    The Tour de France and professional cycling, in general is a sport requiring constant medical attention and illegal doping to function at the highest level. That would include the winner of the TDF, the entire podium and their entire team rosters.

    Greg Lemond, Andy Hampsten, the UCI boss, WADA's chief, Alex Zulle, Philippe Gaumont, Jesus Manzano, Willy Voet, Paul Kimmage and Giorgio Squinzi all say so. These are athletes, former athletes, directors, owners and a top doping control executive.

    This is the sport/business.

    Absolutely zero doubt about it.

    Has any team has won more races than Mapei?
     
  14. waxbytes

    waxbytes New Member

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    If they are all doping then no one is getting any unfair advantage from drugs. Which means all the doping is just a waste of money.
     
  15. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    That may be partially true. But because the drugs & synthetic hormones affect on human chemistry, dosage, frequencies, and access are not disclosed to the public---or even amongst the riders---it is still unfair. Some athletes may just be better doped whereas others might be stronger---if everyone were clean.

    Maybe it is the winner--who had the most powerful drug---not available to the 2nd place finisher, or maybe it is the doctor's advice on dosages/frequencies that gave the winning edge?

    It is unfortunate that athletic contests are now testing chemistry every bit as much as equipment, work ethic and natural genetics.

    It is an "arms race" in the peloton--and while many of the drugs are well know and are widely available to all, some drugs are not. Research experimental drugs may only be offered to certain famous riders or infamous doctors.

    That would both unfair and unethical.

    In other words, we do not know who is the true winner, because powerful drugs, dosages and methods are keep secret from the fans, each rider, and from the drug companies too. And as long as doping is denied or kept secret---a potential for competitive advantage is a possibility.

    It is all top secret.
     
  16. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Our sport has zero credibility with the greater public.

    I do some work at Federation level and the perception is that one cannot compete even at the lower professional levels with out resorting to drugs.
    That is the feedback that I am getting when I talk to coaches and cyclists
    competing at international leve.

    Race speed is increasing, yet everyone is now supposed to be clean unlike their tarnished colleagues in the 1990's !!!!!!!
    The nay sayers will always come back with the better technology, specialisation, better training, excuses.

    I think this sport is in deep denial, Flyer.
     
  17. kennf

    kennf New Member

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    Why do you always follow your own post with another one that says the same thing? (referring to flyer)
     
  18. mjolnir2k

    mjolnir2k New Member

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    Because he has nothing better to do. He's a man desperate for attention and determined to tarnish the reputation of Lance Armstrong. Check his posts..they ALL have the exact same theme. It's comical actually.
     
  19. Flyer

    Flyer Banned

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    Glad you're smiling whilst you learn. The theme is sporting fraud and drug abuse of all the top athletes (not just Lance) and this rotten affect on children. The adults that are not hip--are yet another, but lessor problem.

    Lance and his benefactor Thom Weisel are working hard to plug up the leaks in the doping levees. From Greg Strock to Greg Lemond to Stephen Swartz to Emily O'Reily to David Walsh to Prentice Stephen the witnesses must be silenced with settlement monies or with threatening legal measures--or both.

    Lance's reputation is as clean as Barry Bonds and David Millar.

    Keep up your education. You'll get it someday.


    Your foul mouth is improving too.
     
  20. mjolnir2k

    mjolnir2k New Member

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    And you are as sad, desperate and ill informed as ever.

    Keep up the good work on exposing all the nefarious doings of these evil pro athletes that you have so much in depth knowledge of and their dark plot to "SILENCE" the supposed witnesses (as if they are the mob or something). It's a fascinating read. Truly enlightening. :rolleyes:

    It's not often I get a peek into the mind of a person who has zero original thought and can only parrot the conspiracy theorists that populate this world such as yourself (by the way, do you do anything but "cut and paste" articles?)

    Everyone is on dope but you, that's why you have never been (or will ever be) a winner in life...now you know the truth! ;)

    Now please excuse me, I have a bag of EPO to ingest so I can continue my dominance over the likes of you.
     
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