Indurain's doctor says TDF too hard!



btw: That's; heart and soul, not sole. Athough she probably does feel alone and isolated as Lance, Inc. sues her as an intimidation attempt.


Yet another, standard business practice to help keep secrets and serve as notice to other whistleblowers.

That book; LA Confidential; the secrets of LA, was named accurately.

Secrets, hidden by a great divide, the difference between what is done----and what is said to be done.
 
Flyer said:
btw: That's; heart and soul, not sole. Athough she probably does feel alone and isolated as Lance, Inc. sues her as an intimidation attempt.


Yet another, standard business practice to help keep secrets and serve as notice to other whistleblowers.

That book; LA Confidential; the secrets of LA, was named accurately.

Secrets, hidden by a great divide, the difference between what is done----and what is said to be done.

You do know that there are plans - advanced plans at that - to publish LA Confidentiel, in english ?
This book will be published in the USA and Britain.
Watch this space.
 


And, you won't believe Greg Lemond?

I do not believe that Greg Lemond ever said Lance was a doper....... He started the controversy when he was questioning Lance's friendship with the Italian doctor ......... And questioning a friendship is not the same as saying "Lance is a doper." The Greg I have been around would not imply something , he would come out and just say it ...
I follow Gregs published statements closely ....... I am a big fan of his since he went to Europe..... He spent some time in my area training before he went to Europe........ His wife is from the area I am. Greg and I have several mutual friends in the non-racing cycling world. I have been in the same room a few times ......
I would like to see an article where Greg said Lance was a doper...... Or Hampsten saying such ..........





 
wolfix said:

I do not believe that Greg Lemond ever said Lance was a doper.......

Well , Greg did say it. In reference to a 2002 cellular telephone conversation between Lance & Greg. Greg quoted Lance as saying; 'everyone uses EPO. Don't tell me you did not use it too'

Sounded like a doping accusation unless you believe EPO is an legal orange juice supplement.

I will try and find a news link for you.

No doubt these two are not friends and are now engaged in a legal and financial war--out-of-view of the US press.

Who is right, maybe both, yet both may be guilty of duplicity as well.

Just like Jose Conseco & Mark McGwire, ain't we buddies anymore?




 
wolfix said:


And, you won't believe Greg Lemond?

I do not believe that Greg Lemond ever said Lance was a doper....... He started the controversy when he was questioning Lance's friendship with the Italian doctor ......... And questioning a friendship is not the same as saying "Lance is a doper." The Greg I have been around would not imply something , he would come out and just say it ...
I follow Gregs published statements closely ....... I am a big fan of his since he went to Europe..... He spent some time in my area training before he went to Europe........ His wife is from the area I am. Greg and I have several mutual friends in the non-racing cycling world. I have been in the same room a few times ......
I would like to see an article where Greg said Lance was a doper...... Or Hampsten saying such ..........


For someone who purports to know about the sport and know LeMond and to follow his public comments, you're mistaken about what leMond said about LA.

LA Confidentiel is quite clear about the phone call that LA made to LeMond when LA said "come on, Greg, you know everyone uses EPO. Sure didn't they use it in your day too".
That was the phone call where LA tried to intimidate Greg to stay quiet.

Maybe you ought to ask his wife when you see her in the 'hood.
After all, she heard LA utter those words to Greg !



http://66.218.71.231/language/trans..._43401.html&lp=fr_en&.intl=us&fr=FP-tab-web-t
 
LeMond Armstrong telephone call from LA Confidentiel :

"Greg, it is Lance.

- Hello! Lance, where are you?

- I am in New York.

- Ah, OK.

- Greg, I thought that we were friendly.

- I thought it too.

- Why do you have to say that?

- On Ferrari? Eh well, there is a trick which does not go
with Ferrari. I am disappointed that your with somebody
like him. I have a problem with his type and the doctors
of his kind. My career was shortened, I saw a fellow-
team member dying, I saw clean cyclists being destroyed and
obliged to give up their career. I do not like what has become
of our sport.

- Oh, Perhaps you will say to me that you
never took EPO?

- What makes you say that I did take EPO?

- Go, everyone takes EPO.

- Why do you think that I took some?

- You know, your come-back in 1989 [ the year when LeMond
gains its Tour second of France ] was spectacular. Mine
[ its first victory, in 1999 ] is a miracle.
You could not be so strong in 1989 without
using EPO.

- Listen, Lance, I won the Turn of France before the
EPO appeared in cycling [... ] It is not thanks to the EPO
that I won the Tour, the more so as my rate of
hématocrite never exceeded 45, but because I have a VO2
max [ maximum respiratory capacity of a sportsman ] of 95,
whereas the tien is 82. Give me the name of only one
person who says that I took EPO.

- Everyone knows that.

- Are you threatening me ?

- If you want the war, you will have it!

- Then you are threatening me? [... ]

- I will find at least ten people to say that you took
EPO. Ten people who will testify.

- It is impossible. I know that I never took any. Nobody
can testify to it. If I had taken EPO, my rate of
hématocrite would have exceeded 45, which was never the
case. It is impossible and they is false. I could produce
all my blood parameters, which prove that my rate of
hématocrite was never higher than 45. And if I hear this
charge against me, I will know that that comes from you.

- You did not have to say what you said, it was not correct.

- I try to avoid speaking to the journalists. David Walsh
called me. He knew your relations with Ferrari. What was
I to say? No how? It is not my kind. Then a journalist of
Illustrated Sports also telephoned to me. I spoke in all
with two journalists, not bars. It would have been
perhaps better than I do not speak to them, but I said
only the truth.

- I thought that there was respect between us.

- I thought it too. Listen, Lance, I tried to inform you
about Ferrari. The lawsuit of this type will open in
September [ 2001 ]. What it did in the Nineties changed
the runners. You should take your distances with him."
 
limerickman said:
For someone who purports to know about the sport and know LeMond and to follow his public comments, you're mistaken about what leMond said about LA.

LA Confidentiel is quite clear about the phone call that LA made to LeMond when LA said "come on, Greg, you know everyone uses EPO. Sure didn't they use it in your day too".
That was the phone call where LA tried to intimidate Greg to stay quiet.

Maybe you ought to ask his wife when you see her in the 'hood.
After all, she heard LA utter those words to Greg !

Ok, you two BOZO's..yep, that's right..BOZO's are as clueless and arrogant as ever. I hardly know where to begin, with the trash you two have posted.

Limerickbozo...you purport to know people, YET you can't name them. Must be quite a friendship. I believe that you know ZERO people and even fewer in the media. You might have a subscription to Velonews, L'equipe or Cyclesport, but that's about it. Consider me unimpressed. You have just lost any tiny morsel of credibility you had.

Wolfix gives a clear and rational explanation about why he believes what he believes, cites that he actually has met Greg LeMond and his wife and has a FAR greater knowledge of him personnally than you ever will, yet you drag out a FICTIONAL book to contradict his statements. You are a JOKE.

Please explain to me how YOU know what Greg LeMond did or did NOT say on his cell phone. How do you come by this knowledge? Am I to understand that along with your many secret friends in the peleton and the media you also have contacts with the CIA who have bugged Greg's phone? Do you even read what you are posting, or does this garbage just spring from your twisted mind without interruption? Perhaps before you cut and paste your next set of lies you will actually read their content.

LA Confidential is a work of fiction by a man looking to cash in on someone else's fame. Let me try and explain something to you (and I'll try to use small words so that you will understand it) If there was a shred of truth in that book LA would NEVER have brought suit against the author. Why you ask? Here's why...

As soon as LA brought suit against the author he became a plaintiff. In doing so he opens himself up to cross examination by the defendants lawyers and they are free to ask him any questions which he MUST answer. Being the person who brought the suit LA CANNOT take the 5th (refusing to answer on the grounds that the answer may be self incriminating). So that means the defendants lawyers are free to ask him any questions with regard to his past and any possible drug use.

If LA lies under oath then he is subject to PERJURY (pronounced Per-Jer-E) and that carries a pretty stiff penalty. So why would a guilty man take such a risk? You will note that NONE of the Baseball players named as steroid users in Jose Conseco's book have sued..why, because they expose themselves to the above scenario, hence NONE have sued.

Once again you have proven yourself to be obtuse and baseless in your claims. To trot out LA Confidential as a source of your "Facts" only proves that point.

I posted LA's race results from 1991-1998 that includes more than 20 TWENTY stage races with MULTIPLE WINS, yet you continue to say he never raced stage races or had no success at stage races.

You are a clown with an agenda that is incapable of seeing anything less than what your twisted mind has concocted.
 
Flyer said:
Limerickman:

The rube that is mojolnir has finally got under your skin too. I am the chief target of his name-calling and pedophile rants.

And naming sources is wholly unnecessary--because these people are on the payroll of the doped teams and/or industry insiders earning a living.

It is obivious to all who read the posts that mojolnir knows prescious little about bicycle racing amongst experienced racers.

He knows even less about the history of the sport. Apparently, when he attends the TDF he does not down look at the mountainous roads and read the doping slogans and references to the medical truth.

He is a major source of embarrassment to the United States with his blithering Texas Long-Horn Cowboy Hatted, pistol shooting Ya Hoooo, drunken style.

He accused me of being unAmerican. Well if he is an American---he is a disgraceful one.

He name-calls everyone who fails to endorse Lance or questions his varying denials of doping compliance.

Ok, on to the next assclown of the cycling forums...

Of course Limerickman can't name sources, because just like YOU he has NONE. You scour the net to find articles that you can post to make yourself seem intelligent, yet you know nothing about the subject matter. Do you also subscribe to mathematics forums and post other peoples formulas? Perhaps you belong to a litterary forum and post Shakespeare as if you understand it?

You have no credibility. ZERO. You post nothing that has any substance except half truths, innuendo and outright lies. But that's who you are, so no changing that. You prove yourself to be anti-LA, which is fine with me. I have NO issue with people not rooting, supporting or even liking LA. What I took issue with is your baseless claims and innuendo that you KNOW he is on drugs, when you have NO idea if he is or isn't. You then wrapped your comments around a self serving ideal that you are looking to protect the youth cycling movement, but the truth is your posts and agenda don't support that concept. You have one purpose only and that is to denegrate LA, yet you are too chickenshit to come out and say it. You are a coward, plain and simple.

Flyer said:
Barry Bonds has NEVER admitted to sterid use. Never!

See, again you are WRONG. In actuality Barry Bonds DID admit to using steroids in front of a GRAND JURY. His claim was that he took them unknowingly, which NO-ONE believes. However, he DID admit it, so the comparrison is invalid. Get your facts straight (oh, I forgot..you aren't interested in FACTS).

Flyer said:
Is Greg Lemond 100% clean from doping? No way.

Is Greg a self-serving jealous jerk? Absolutely not.

Does Greg know more about doping: You bet

Does Greg get in trouble for speaking out: Yes.


More areas that you have no knowledge of...I assume you have spoken to the individual you have named in the above reference and he told you this? Can you direct me to the articles that prove your point? I didn't think so...


Flyer said:
Mjolnir doesn't even know which athletes have been caught or which have confessed, nor does he care. He is convinced that everyone is clean.

No, actually what I DON'T do is accuse people without cause. You make it your life's work. You sling mud to make yourself feel better. that's the truth of it.

You need to crawl back under the rock you slithered out from under. You need to get your facts straight before you post absurdities. You need to get your head out of your ass long enough to appreciate individuals are capable of great things in sport without drugs and you need to figure out that your bitterness might be treatable if you seek psychological counseling.

Also, for the sake of the young riders, please remove yourself from their presence. You are a blight to the landscape of cycling and are a danger to their health and mental well being. your negative attitude is poisonous and your hatred is palpable. Kids can pick up on that and I'd hate to see abunch of bitter, young riders who have no goals and no hope.
 
mjolnir2k said:
If LA lies under oath then he is subject to PERJURY (pronounced Per-Jer-E) and that carries a pretty stiff penalty. So why would a guilty man take such a risk? You will note that NONE of the Baseball players named as steroid users in Jose Conseco's book have sued..why, because they expose themselves to the above scenario, hence NONE have sued.

.
There is a good explanation for that which goes somewhat like that: The book comes out. He has two options. Do nothing or sue. If he does nothing all hell brakes loose. If he sues then with a team of expert lawyers he has a good chance of totally discrediting the author or at least of persuading people like you , that want to believe in the Lance miracle no matter what, that he is innocent. Even if he is guilty and the above dialogue did indeed take place the worst case scenario would be his word against Le Monde's word (assuming that LeMonde would be willing to confirm the dialogue). So people like Flyer and limmerickman would believe LeMonde and you would choose to believe Lance. So innocent or quilty he had no other option but to sue. Personally, I believe that even if the book is a fake Lance is dopped to the guills but that is just a personal belief based on statistics and common sense. It would be nice though if you were a bit more polite. Having to go through your abuse in order to follow the topic is starting to become tiring...
 
wolfix said:
You are right on mjolnir2k ........
Certain men are " born cyclists." I think Lance's lack of race knowledge and his overly aggressive style prevented him from better results in his pre-cancer days..... Plus , we do not know how the cancer forming in his body slowed him down...... His win at the World Championships may have indicated his ability to get up for the big races........
The cancer treatments he went through had the ability to change his body as far as weight goes ....... My father was a completely different man after chemo .......
But the argument in here whether Lance could have changed as much as he did after cancer is one that I may have a tremendous insight to ......
Six years ago I came real close to death in a serious auto accident ....... I struggled for a year and half after with results of the accident. Since then , after much thought of how fragile life is ...... And experiancing it is not the same as reading about it , I changed my entire life ....... I do things I never have before. I approach everything "important" with a total focus. I know today what is important to me.
I believe after Lance's chemo , that he understands what is important to him, making a assult on the TDF with total focus the priority in his life......
In society , there are those that are "idol worshippers" and those that want to bring the "idols" down ........
Me.??????? Come July , I will flick on the TV, pour a Guiness, and sit back and enjoy what is happening ....... Because I realize that no matter who is doping in the peloton , I will have bigger obstacles facing me in my life then a few men who want to ride around France in July .

Just backtracked and saw this post. VERY well said. You obviously have first hand knowledge of the topics you speak about.

Good health to you and here's to TdF 2005 and a pint af Guiness! :D
 
DV1976 said:
There is a good explanation for that which goes somewhat like that: The book comes out. He has two options. Do nothing or sue. If he does nothing all hell brakes loose. If he sues then with a team of expert lawyers he has a good chance of totally discrediting the author or at least of persuading people like you , that want to believe in the Lance miracle no matter what, that he is innocent. Even if he is guilty and the above dialogue did indeed take place the worst case scenario would be his word against Le Monde's word (assuming that LeMonde would be willing to confirm the dialogue). So people like Flyer and limmerickman would believe LeMonde and you would choose to believe Lance. So innocent or quilty he had no other option but to sue. Personally, I believe that even if the book is a fake Lance is dopped to the guills but that is just a personal belief based on statistics and common sense.

No, that is faulty logic. read the next paragraph I wrote regarding this and you will understand that if LA sues he opens himself up to an expose from the Defense team. This is illogical if he is hiding the rampant drug use that is claimed by Flyer and Limerickman. It would be akin to suicide.

I believe in no miracles. I believe that in order to be triumphant you have to work hard and be focused. Are there cheats in all of sport, absolutely. Are all sportsmen cheats, absolutely not.

Do I have a problem with you saying that you don't care for LA or that you THINK he's on dope, no I do not. You are certainly allowed your opinion. It's when someone tries to proclaim their opinion as a FACT that I take issue.

DV1976 said:
It would be nice though if you were a bit more polite. Having to go through your abuse in order to follow the topic is starting to become tiring...

Yes, yes..MY abuse...indeed. (all quotes below are in reference to me)
Flyer said:
1. His childhood lunch money was spent on Coca Cola and potato chips which explains his brain damage.

2. The rube that is mojolnir has finally got under your skin too...

3. It is obivious to all who read the posts that mojolnir knows prescious little about bicycle racing amongst experienced racers.

4. He is a major source of embarrassment to the United States with his blithering Texas Long-Horn Cowboy Hatted, pistol shooting Ya Hoooo, drunken style.

5. if he is an American---he is a disgraceful one

Guess I had no call to take offense.... :rolleyes
 
DV1976 said:
There is a good explanation for that which goes somewhat like that: The book comes out. He has two options. Do nothing or sue. If he does nothing all hell brakes loose. If he sues then with a team of expert lawyers he has a good chance of totally discrediting the author or at least of persuading people like you , that want to believe in the Lance miracle no matter what, that he is innocent. Even if he is guilty and the above dialogue did indeed take place the worst case scenario would be his word against Le Monde's word (assuming that LeMonde would be willing to confirm the dialogue). So people like Flyer and limmerickman would believe LeMonde and you would choose to believe Lance. So innocent or quilty he had no other option but to sue. Personally, I believe that even if the book is a fake Lance is dopped to the guills but that is just a personal belief based on statistics and common sense. It would be nice though if you were a bit more polite. Having to go through your abuse in order to follow the topic is starting to become tiring...
Armstrong should have replied to the book's authors initially when they gave him the right to reply and state his case - Armstrong ignored them and that is why the judge ruled against him initially in the French case.

I've read and enjoyed many articles by David Walsh - and his 'Inside the TdF' is a classics - I find the vilification of a well respected, award winning writer for asking a few tough questions about Armstrong (questions that more than a few of us have formed and wanted to know the answers to) a complete disgrace. Obviously, we are all entitled to our own opinions on the validity of the book, but to dismiss it as a 'fiction' without having read it - and I doubt our angry friend has the capacity to read a book in French - reminds me of all those bigots who dismiss films/books/plays as blasphemous/pornographic/whatever without actually having read them.

I do wish our friend would honestly respond to some of the question marks that are raised about his idol rather than swallowing the party line hook, line and sinker (I particularly enjoyed the allusion to why Emma O'Reilley might have been sacked - a slur that originates, unsubstantiated I might add, from Armstrong himself). Some original thought instead of the anger and nastiness might be interesting and at least contribute something to the debate.

He makes the point that Armstrong doesn't have to put himself in the position where he might be called to the stand. I believe Armstrong will have a much tougher fight in France than he might face in the UK - the French have a long tradition of balancing the rights of the individual with freedom of expression. In Britain, however, the laws are far more plaintiff friendly, assuming that the contested words are indeed false, the burden of proving truth falling on the defendant. But then 'LA Confidentiel' has only been published in France and the British case is against a newspaper article not even written by Walsh. I am touched by the fact that he believes the 5th Amendment applies to cases in French and British courts which is where these actions are taking place. The 5th Amendment does not apply outside the US, but this does give us an insight into the peculiarly insular nature of our friend's world view.

Emma O'Reilly is being sued by the multi million dollar Armstrong machine and yet she has recently gone on the record with her allegations in the French investigation. Why would she put herself in that position, knowing that she can't possibly outgun Armstrong and his legal team? Unless, perhaps, she is telling the truth. Steven Swartz initially declined to be named when he first spoke out about Armstrong - now he has come forward. Again, he has everything to lose should the might of the Armstrong machine swing in his direction. The fact that these people have decided to go public, knowing how litigious Armstrong is and how much they have to lose, is either very foolhardy or very brave.

I am interested that Mr Angry seems prepared to accept that there is doping in the sport and that this is a major problem. He is presumably happy to assume that any number of other riders are dirty and couldn't give a shite about that. But questions about Armstrong - legitimate questions that have been raised, as he points out himself, about any number of other riders - raise a level of vitriolic ire that, as DV1976 points out, interrupts the flow of what could be an interesting debate.

Since I can't even ride a bike (I'm disabled) I will have not a shred of credibility in Mr Angry's eyes - and I can't even claim to have stood in the same room as Greg Lemond. I have organised espoir regional championships in my village, met several old pros who you would never have heard of and actually spent time talking to them, have marshalled stages of the Tour of Poitou-Charentes (meeting Jalabert, Tafi and Wiggins among others) and the Grand Boucle Feminin but I imagine my experiences won't matter a damn to you. And here I am wasting time justifying myself to an insular, angry American who thinks that the height of cycling knowledge is to stand in the same room as Greg Lemond. Just who do I think I am?

Anyway, since this has become a plyground pissing contest about who has more credibility than who, why not step up Mr Angry and justify exactly why we should lend any credibility to your views?
 
I find the vilification of a well respected, award winning writer for asking a few tough questions about Armstrong (questions that more than a few of us have formed and wanted to know the answers to) a complete disgrace.


(I particularly enjoyed the allusion to why Emma O'Reilley might have been sacked - a slur that originates, unsubstantiated I might add, from Armstrong himself).

When I was questioning as to why Emma O'Reilley was sacked, I was asking a a tough question , even though I am not a "well repected, award winning writer."
________________________________________________________
 
mjolnir2k said:
Limerickbozo...you purport to know people, YET you can't name them. Must be quite a friendship. I believe that you know ZERO people and even fewer in the media. You might have a subscription to Velonews, L'equipe or Cyclesport, but that's about it. Consider me unimpressed. You have just lost any tiny morsel of credibility you had.

I don't believe that I am required to impress you or to name who I have been speaking to within the sport of cycling.
I have explained this to you before.

You are free to question my good faith in all this, of course.
All I will say is that the people I talk to are solid people, with no agenda.

mjolnir2k said:
Wolfix gives a clear and rational explanation about why he believes what he believes, cites that he actually has met Greg LeMond and his wife and has a FAR greater knowledge of him personnally than you ever will, yet you drag out a FICTIONAL book to contradict his statements. You are a JOKE.

Please explain to me how YOU know what Greg LeMond did or did NOT say on his cell phone. How do you come by this knowledge? Am I to understand that along with your many secret friends in the peleton and the media you also have contacts with the CIA who have bugged Greg's phone? Do you even read what you are posting, or does this garbage just spring from your twisted mind without interruption? Perhaps before you cut and paste your next set of lies you will actually read their content.

You are correct, Wolfix did claim that he met LeMond and that he knew his wife.
Wolfix also claimed to follow, closely, LeMonds dealings with the press.

The telephone conversation and the content of the the call are in the book
LA Confidentiel - Les Secretes de Lance Armstrong.
The writers of the book, before publishing, interviewed Greg and Kathy LeMond and they volunteered the contents of the telephone conversation to the authors.
Before publishing the book, the authors received assurances from all of the participants that they would be prepared to defend any libel actions resulting from the books publication.
Greg LeMond, Kathy LeMond, Emma O'reilly, Andrea Perons wife, Stephan Swart, are all prepared to testify in France as to the veracity of the comments pertaining to them about Lance Armstrong, in this book.
The authors await LA's appearance in court in France to contest the veracity
of the contents of the book.
If the participants in the book are lying - as you contend - then the court will adjudicate accordingly.
I think that if these people are lying, they're either stupid or corrupt to have told lies to the books authors.
They have not profitted financially from contributing to the book.
They have nothing to gain in material terms, by telling lies.

Finally, I don't agree with your view that this book is a book of fiction.
On the readership lists, the book is listed as Non-Fiction.

mjolnir2k said:
As soon as LA brought suit against the author he became a plaintiff. In doing so he opens himself up to cross examination by the defendants lawyers and they are free to ask him any questions which he MUST answer. Being the person who brought the suit LA CANNOT take the 5th (refusing to answer on the grounds that the answer may be self incriminating). So that means the defendants lawyers are free to ask him any questions with regard to his past and any possible drug use.

If LA lies under oath then he is subject to PERJURY (pronounced Per-Jer-E) and that carries a pretty stiff penalty. So why would a guilty man take such a risk? You will note that NONE of the Baseball players named as steroid users in Jose Conseco's book have sued..why, because they expose themselves to the above scenario, hence NONE have sued.

I am well aware that in instituting proceedings for libel, LA will be forced to enter a witness box in a French court.
Your country's 5th amendment - evaporates at Ellis Island.

But let me tell you - people initiate legal actions for all sorts of reasons.
Actions are launched in the hope that the other side will back down.
Sometimes actions are launched because the plaintiff wants it's day in court.

I hope LA has the courage of his convictions and will face his accusers in a neutral court in France.
I hope that he is not launching his legal challenge in the expectation that the accusations will be withdrawn before the court hearing.

I won't hold my breath - but let's hope he will get in to court and fight this.

mjolnir2k said:
You will note that NONE of the Baseball players named as steroid users in Jose Conseco's book have sued..why, because they expose themselves to the above scenario, hence NONE have sued.

Once again you have proven yourself to be obtuse and baseless in your claims. To trot out LA Confidential as a source of your "Facts" only proves that point.

I posted LA's race results from 1991-1998 that includes more than 20 TWENTY stage races with MULTIPLE WINS, yet you continue to say he never raced stage races or had no success at stage races.

You are a clown with an agenda that is incapable of seeing anything less than what your twisted mind has concocted.

I cannot comment about the case in other sports you refer to.
I have no knowledge of those cases.

As regards your listing the LA palmares - the majority of the wins listed were for one day races.
One days races.
Not stage races.
I didn't see many stage race wins in the palmares list.
Tour of the Basque Country, Criterium International, Tour of Switzerland,
Tour of Catalunya, weren't listed for between 1992-1996.
Needless to say, no grand tours or classement categories in grand tous were
listed for between 1992-1996

The issue - and I have to keep reminding you of this - is how did a one day rider become such a great stage race rider.
That's the issue.

I think it is best to say that we disagree - and leave it at that.
 
To the pedophile labeling name-calling flaming rude propagandist, that is mjolnirY2K:

You need to prepare yourself for defeat. Your boy is going down. Maybe this summer, maybe next year, but exactly as Barry Bonds has consistentky denied using steroids (just like Lance has)--Barry only admitted only to flaxseed oils and mysterious creams (per leaked FGJ secret testimony), so too will Lance be similarly exposed. (perhaps not in the USA)

You'll see.

I assume you will not apologize for being wrong, nor will you apologize now for being so rude, disrespectful and meanspirited. You are shameful.

Such is your lot in life.


mjolnir2k said:
Ok, on to the next assclown of the cycling forums...

Of course Limerickman can't name sources, because just like YOU he has NONE. You scour the net to find articles that you can post to make yourself seem intelligent, yet you know nothing about the subject matter. Do you also subscribe to mathematics forums and post other peoples formulas? Perhaps you belong to a litterary forum and post Shakespeare as if you understand it?

You have no credibility. ZERO. You post nothing that has any substance except half truths, innuendo and outright lies. But that's who you are, so no changing that. You prove yourself to be anti-LA, which is fine with me. I have NO issue with people not rooting, supporting or even liking LA. What I took issue with is your baseless claims and innuendo that you KNOW he is on drugs, when you have NO idea if he is or isn't. You then wrapped your comments around a self serving ideal that you are looking to protect the youth cycling movement, but the truth is your posts and agenda don't support that concept. You have one purpose only and that is to denegrate LA, yet you are too chickenshit to come out and say it. You are a coward, plain and simple.



See, again you are WRONG. In actuality Barry Bonds DID admit to using steroids in front of a GRAND JURY. His claim was that he took them unknowingly, which NO-ONE believes. However, he DID admit it, so the comparrison is invalid. Get your facts straight (oh, I forgot..you aren't interested in FACTS).




More areas that you have no knowledge of...I assume you have spoken to the individual you have named in the above reference and he told you this? Can you direct me to the articles that prove your point? I didn't think so...




No, actually what I DON'T do is accuse people without cause. You make it your life's work. You sling mud to make yourself feel better. that's the truth of it.

You need to crawl back under the rock you slithered out from under. You need to get your facts straight before you post absurdities. You need to get your head out of your ass long enough to appreciate individuals are capable of great things in sport without drugs and you need to figure out that your bitterness might be treatable if you seek psychological counseling.

Also, for the sake of the young riders, please remove yourself from their presence. You are a blight to the landscape of cycling and are a danger to their health and mental well being. your negative attitude is poisonous and your hatred is palpable. Kids can pick up on that and I'd hate to see abunch of bitter, young riders who have no goals and no hope.
 
limerickman said:
I don't believe that I am required to impress you or to name who I have been speaking to within the sport of cycling.
I have explained this to you before.

No you certainly don't, but I certainly retain the right to question the veracity of your claimed relationships.

limerickman said:
You are correct, Wolfix did claim that he met LeMond and that he knew his wife.
Wolfix also claimed to follow, closely, LeMonds dealings with the press.

The telephone conversation and the content of the the call are in the book
LA Confidentiel - Les Secretes de Lance Armstrong.
The writers of the book, before publishing, interviewed Greg and Kathy LeMond and they volunteered the contents of the telephone conversation to the authors.
Before publishing the book, the authors received assurances from all of the participants that they would be prepared to defend any libel actions resulting from the books publication.
Greg LeMond, Kathy LeMond, Emma O'reilly, Andrea Perons wife, Stephan Swart, are all prepared to testify in France as to the veracity of the comments pertaining to them about Lance Armstrong, in this book.
The authors await LA's appearance in court in France to contest the veracity
of the contents of the book.
If the participants in the book are lying - as you contend - then the court will adjudicate accordingly.
I think that if these people are lying, they're either stupid or corrupt to have told lies to the books authors.
They have not profitted financially from contributing to the book.
They have nothing to gain in material terms, by telling lies.

That they have nothing to gain is an assumption that I can not speculate about. I don't claim to have secret knowledge of people's interior motives, just that to date none of this has transpired. Last I checked Mr. Armstrong had been VIGOROUSLY examined by the French prosecutors office and they found nothing of merit to charge against him.

limerickman said:
Finally, I don't agree with your view that this book is a book of fiction.
On the readership lists, the book is listed as Non-Fiction.

In the literal sense, but then so is People magazine...



limerickman said:
I am well aware that in instituting proceedings for libel, LA will be forced to enter a witness box in a French court.
Your country's 5th amendment - evaporates at Ellis Island.

You are assuming that there wll be no court cases against him in the US as a result of the French case. If he were found guilty of sporting fraud, even in France, you can be assured the backlash in the US would spur a few legal cases.

limerickman said:
But let me tell you - people initiate legal actions for all sorts of reasons.
Actions are launched in the hope that the other side will back down.
Sometimes actions are launched because the plaintiff wants it's day in court.

I hope LA has the courage of his convictions and will face his accusers in a neutral court in France.
I hope that he is not launching his legal challenge in the expectation that the accusations will be withdrawn before the court hearing.

I won't hold my breath - but let's hope he will get in to court and fight this.

And until that time comes, why continue to slander him?



I cannot comment about the case in other sports you refer to.
I have no knowledge of those cases.

limerickman said:
As regards your listing the LA palmares - the majority of the wins listed were for one day races.
One days races.
Not stage races.
I didn't see many stage race wins in the palmares list.
Tour of the Basque Country, Criterium International, Tour of Switzerland,
Tour of Catalunya, weren't listed for between 1992-1996.
Needless to say, no grand tours or classement categories in grand tous were
listed for between 1992-1996

The issue - and I have to keep reminding you of this - is how did a one day rider become such a great stage race rider.
That's the issue.

We see different things when viewing his palmares. You see a racer that is lacking and I see a racer that is maturing. He participated and won multiple stage races (or stages within the stage race) so that leads me to believe he is capable of doing so on a grander scale. Do you believe Cunego was doping last year? Yet would you be suprised if he won a TdF in the coming years? Riders mature, gain skill, get better teams, get better managers, have different training programs...all this can lead to great changes that does not mean dope is at hand.

limerickman said:
I think it is best to say that we disagree - and leave it at that.

And finally we agree on something.
 
You are going down along with your lying doping friends. Flaxseed oils, creams---but no steroids.

Prepare for your fate.

Name caller.




mjolnir2k said:
No you certainly don't, but I certainly retain the right to question the veracity of your claimed relationships.



That they have nothing to gain is an assumption that I can not speculate about. I don't claim to have secret knowledge of people's interior motives, just that to date none of this has transpired. Last I checked Mr. Armstrong had been VIGOROUSLY examined by the French prosecutors office and they found nothing of merit to charge against him.



In the literal sense, but then so is People magazine...





You are assuming that there wll be no court cases against him in the US as a result of the French case. If he were found guilty of sporting fraud, even in France, you can be assured the backlash in the US would spur a few legal cases.



And until that time comes, why continue to slander him?



I cannot comment about the case in other sports you refer to.
I have no knowledge of those cases.



We see different things when viewing his palmares. You see a racer that is lacking and I see a racer that is maturing. He participated and won multiple stage races (or stages within the stage race) so that leads me to believe he is capable of doing so on a grander scale. Do you believe Cunego was doping last year? Yet would you be suprised if he won a TdF in the coming years? Riders mature, gain skill, get better teams, get better managers, have different training programs...all this can lead to great changes that does not mean dope is at hand.



And finally we agree on something.
 
Flyer said:
You are going down along with your lying doping friends. Flaxseed oils, creams---but no steroids.

Prepare for your fate.

Name caller.

And apparently I am now arguing (on the internet, no less) with a 10 year old. That's a new low... :rolleyes:

You are actually quite amusing. Did you hold your breath until you turned blue before you typed this response?

I have to go finish laughing at you now..bye!
 
You, with your limited knowledge against any 10 year, would still be unfair. You have no chance. A 10 year old would win 100 out of 100 contests.

Ignore Greg Lemond, Alex Zulle, Andy Hamspten, Stephen Swartz, Eddie Merckx, Eddie Plankaert, Francesco Moser, Jacques Anquitel, Fausto Coppi, Jesus Manzano, Philippe Gaumont, Richard Virenque, Laurent Broachard, Pascal Herve, et al....

at your own peril.


See your boy in his kit at:

http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?id=1108








mjolnir2k said:
And apparently I am now arguing (on the internet, no less) with a 10 year old. That's a new low... :rolleyes:

You are actually quite amusing. Did you hold your breath until you turned blue before you typed this response?

I have to go finish laughing at you now..bye!
 
mjolnir2k said:
And apparently I am now arguing (on the internet, no less) with a 10 year old. That's a new low... :rolleyes:

You are actually quite amusing. Did you hold your breath until you turned blue before you typed this response?

I have to go finish laughing at you now..bye!
Mr Angry - your contention that Armstrong has been thoroughly examined by the French prosecution is absolutely false. Letters have been sent to the head offices of Discovery, Tailwind and all Armstrong's houses. He has not responded to any of them.

One could speculate that Armstrong's swift witrhdrawl from Paris-Nice could have had as much to do with the French prosecutors breathing down his neck. This statement is pure speculation. My first statement is fact.

It is somewhat like the assertion that USPS were completely cleared in the Actovegin investigation. In fact, the investigators asked for fresh samples that could be tested for the raft of medical products used by USPS and thereby cross checked against declared meds to definitively prove whether or not they were using some unknown product - tests that would have proved beyond doubt that no PEDs were being used. Instead, Armstrong denied the prosecutors fresh samples. This is another fact, easily checkable, in the public domain. While Armstrong was perfectly within his rights to deny the investigators fresh samples, why would he do so if he has nothing to hide? A tiresome procedure, sure, but if you're squeaky clean how long does it take to pee in a cup and give a blood sample?

I'm not a well respected, award winning writer either, but I find this fact throws up some questions, don't you?