Injuries for 2003

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Doug Freese, Dec 15, 2003.

  1. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all around
    positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for this
    past year.

    In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    See a vet?

    Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    staying healthy.

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
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  2. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "Doug Freese" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?
    >
    Two minor calf muscle pulls on longer trail rambles

    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?
    >
    Yes, many weeks

    > See a vet?

    No
    >
    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    Insufficient recovery from lifting, jumping rope, backwards running followed by long trail run.
    >
    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    A little care.
    >
    > --
    > Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  3. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    Umm.... let me see. Only real running related injury was a quadraceps muscle tear back at the
    beginning of April.

    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    Yep. Lost nearly 4 weeks training in the run up to the Edinburgh marathon (June 15th).

    > See a vet?

    Yes. As an ex-doctor I naturally jumped to worst-case-senario mode and assumed I had bone cancer or
    a stress fracture or something. Local sports injury clinic sorted me out.

    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    Running down a mountain followed by a very windy 5k race 6 days later. My leg was niggling before
    the start but I ignored the signs. I was limping by the end.

    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    Despite the above I reckon I have dodged injury pretty well this year. Mostly down to having chosen
    my parents well. ;-)

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email.
     
  4. The Messiah

    The Messiah Guest

    Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your loss of >erectile function.

    We know you're an old softie Doug, no reason to advertise it.
     
  5. Lyndon

    Lyndon Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:

    >Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    >around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    >this past year.
    >
    >In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?
    >
    Modest case of PF. Cut back on training fairly soon. My first real injury since 1996, really.

    >Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    Yes and no. The PF showed up in early August, and I changed events and cut back on volume--so,
    instead of stuff like 6X400 for 800/1500, cut back to 3X300 (but faster) and 6X100, changed to Zoom
    Kennedys (which have an air unit in the heel) for sprint workouts, and got a 400m PR in October
    (depite, or maybe because of, the PF).

    I've taken a 2 month rest instead of the 1 month I normally take in the fall/winter, and emphasized
    weights. Upped my bench to the 325 area, so now I can outlift the 10.5 100m guys (never could do
    that before--I was always well short of them). So, in the long run, the positives may outweigh the
    negatives.
    >
    >See a vet?

    No. Self treatment worked ok, so there was no need.
    >
    >Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    Two Issues:

    1. Too much fast running on a hard surface and in old flats. I visited my inlaws with the kids
    during the summer, with the planned 5-7 days turning into 6-7 weeks. The catch was that the
    only track open in the vicinity was an old rubberized asphalt track with the asphalt poking
    through. Very hard surface, and to protect my good (and expensive) spikes, I used an old pair
    of flats. This would have been ok for 1 week, but after 6 weeks I had heel pain.

    2. I've adopted Charlie Francis' methods for sprinting, and like many others I've gotten a
    SIGNIFICANT increase in speed by following his plans. Charlie believes in recovery (one of his
    main things) but his recovery includes 4-6K running weekly @ [email protected] of your top speed, this coming
    in addition to regular sprint training @ 95-100%. A typical precomp week for someone doing his
    3/200 training would go roughly like this:

    Mon Special Endurance II: 3 X 300 @ 95% full recovery Tues Extensive Tempo: 2 X 10 X 100 @70%,
    100m walk rec. Wed Max Speed/Acceleration: 4 X 30 flying. 2 X 60 accelation Thu Extensive Tempo:
    2 X 10 X 100 @70%, 100m walk rec. Fri Special Endurance I: 4 X 150 @ 95%10 min rest

    Given the poor track mentioned above, I'm doubtful that Charlie's recovery scheme--on a proper facility--
    would have caused the PF, but it probably contributed, and I've noticed that a certain number of
    people posting on Charlie's forums have heel pain. Thus I'm keeping Charlie's periodization scheme
    (short to long) but cutting out the extensive tempo stuff. Back to just weights and drills on
    recovery days.

    Lyndon

    "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson
     
  6. In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    Yes:

    (1) achilles tendonitis inherited from previous year.
    (2) shinsplints

    Cause: (1) too much fast running, training faster than proper pace.
    (3) started speed work a little quickly.

    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    (4)First documented/diagnosed in logbook in Dec 02. Can't remember exactly when symptoms first
    appeared. Tried to run through it Jan/Feb. Took some rest in March, moved to reduced milage
    in April (still running good race times). Finally stopped racing for a 3 months and stopped
    speed work.

    It's still a little sore/stiff when I get out of bed, but doesn't flare up during training
    runs any more.

    (5) not even shore if it really was shinsplints -- took a weeks rest at the first sign of trouble,
    and it went away and didn't come back. Ran a PR the next week.

    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    Lesson from these injuries:

    Rest aggressively/proactively. Don't wait until you're forced to rest. A stitch in time saves nine
    -- the second "injury" had no negative impact on my training, because I got on top of it early. To
    those who would worry that resting may hurt performance -- if you have signs of injury, you are
    probably overtrained, in which case a weeks downtime will not only improve your performance by
    keeping you injury free, it could actually result in better performances in the short term. One of
    my coaches pointed out that no single workout makes a whole lot of difference to your performance,
    but a single injury can really screw things up. This is something worth thinking about when
    considering accepting downtime, or getting in those really important workouts.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  7. Ed prochak

    Ed prochak Guest

    Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    None physical. The hip problem I had was in 2002. But the loss of conditioning and weight gain over
    the holidays really slowed me down. The biggest problem was being out of work for nearly a year. Now
    I'm working again but I have yet to find a regular running schudule. (I now have a 45-60minute one-
    way commute.)
    >
    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    Yes, I'm much slower. Seems to be equally due to loss of condition and weight gain.
    >
    > See a vet?

    Yes. Both dogs had their regular check up. 8^)

    >
    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    the Bush economy

    >
    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    I'm trying to be very careful coming back. It can be hard mentally, knowing what I could do before
    and finding my limits now. The good news is I am improving, again.

    Thanks Doug for what hopefully will be an interesting thread
     
  8. jobin

    jobin Guest

    Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.

    great thread, doug.

    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    one. sort of.. knee started feeling stiff after a very hard uphill run. after that, it kept coming
    and going for a few weeks..

    no pain really. just stiffness or something like that..

    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    yes, on and off. affected my only race of the year. haven't really had a good run since then, mainly
    due to time and other conflicts...

    > See a vet?

    a veteran or a veterinarian?

    a few vets on this board had some suggestions which seemed to help.

    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    the hard uphill run.

    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    low mileage. i have just over 500 miles for the year ;-)

    jobs
     
  9. JDusty4

    JDusty4 Guest

    Injuries this year:
    Peoreal tendonitis in both legs, caused by overpronation and heelstrike.
    Treatment: orthodics, rest. set me back for a while.
    "Stress Reactions" in both legs, near peroneal tendons above ankle on
    outside of leg, caused by overtraining, possibly while affected by
    tendonitis. Treatment: 3 months rest.
     
  10. Perdy Tired

    Perdy Tired Guest

    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    Yes... shin splints

    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    Yes... two months of reduced mileage followed by a 25k race (booked prior to the injury). And now,
    after two more months of running without any pain, it came back on Sunday. More resting. :-(

    > See a vet?

    No.

    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    Duh... speedwork on a hilly trail. I won't try that one again.

    Perdy.
     
  11. Lyndon <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > 2. I've adopted Charlie Francis' methods for sprinting, and like many others I've gotten a
    > SIGNIFICANT increase in speed by following his plans. Charlie believes in recovery (one of his
    > main things) but his recovery includes 4-6K running weekly @ [email protected] of your top speed, this
    > coming in addition to regular sprint training @ 95-100%. A typical precomp week for someone
    > doing his
    > 100/200 training would go roughly like this:

    Sorry, but it has to be said - hopefully you haven't adopted _all_ of Charlie Francis's methods. ;-)

    -Dave

    --
    work: dga - at - lcs.mit.edu me: angio - at - pobox.com MIT Laboratory for Computer Science
    http://www.angio.net/ (note that my reply-to address is vaguely despammed...) bulk emailers: I do
    not accept unsolicited email. Do not mail me.
     
  12. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Tim Downie wrote:

    >>See a vet?
    >
    >
    > Yes. As an ex-doctor I naturally jumped to worst-case-senario mode and assumed I had bone cancer
    > or a stress fracture or something. Local sports injury clinic sorted me out.

    Do I dare ask how one becomes an Ex-doctor? It has pejorative connotations such as getting your
    license pulled rather than retiring or voluntarily trying another occupation.

    People involved in medicine make the worst patients.... ;)

    > Despite the above I reckon I have dodged injury pretty well this year. Mostly down to having
    > chosen my parents well. ;-)

    Some modesty here? Maybe your training is correct for you abilities. If you moved your mileage 120+
    miles a week would your genes still carry you injury free? ;)

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  13. Doug Freese

    Doug Freese Guest

    Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

    > Rest aggressively/proactively. Don't wait until you're forced to rest. A stitch in time saves nine
    > -- the second "injury" had no negative impact on my training, because I got on top of it early. To
    > those who would worry that resting may hurt performance -- if you have signs of injury, you are
    > probably overtrained, in which case a weeks downtime will not only improve your performance by
    > keeping you injury free, it could actually result in better performances in the short term. One of
    > my coaches pointed out that no single workout makes a whole lot of difference to your performance,
    > but a single injury can really screw things up. This is something worth thinking about when
    > considering accepting downtime, or getting in those really important workouts.

    You seem to have a good grip on training and holding injuries off. To play devils advocate why
    are you racing this time of year and on a snowy and likely slippery course? Seems risky and for
    what purpose?

    --
    Doug Freese "Caveat Lector" [email protected]
     
  14. The Messiah

    The Messiah Guest

    [email protected] (Ed prochak) wrote in message
    > Yes, I'm much slower.

    Mentally, Yes Ed, we know. The fact you used to take the "short bus" to school tells us
    everything...
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, Doug Freese wrote:
    >
    >
    > Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >> Rest aggressively/proactively. Don't wait until you're forced to rest. A stitch in time saves
    >> nine -- the second "injury" had no negative impact on my training, because I got on top of it
    >> early. To those who would worry that resting may hurt performance -- if you have signs of injury,
    >> you are probably overtrained, in which case a weeks downtime will not only improve your
    >> performance by keeping you injury free, it could actually result in better performances in the
    >> short term. One of my coaches pointed out that no single workout makes a whole lot of difference
    >> to your performance, but a single injury can really screw things up. This is something worth
    >> thinking about when considering accepting downtime, or getting in those really important
    >> workouts.
    >
    >
    > You seem to have a good grip on training and holding injuries off. To play devils advocate why are
    > you racing this time of year and on a snowy and likely slippery course? Seems risky and for what
    > purpose?

    There's a few questions in there:

    (1) Why this time of year ? racing this time of year because there are some good races available.
    For the most part, the central park courses are actually clear of snow, so the time of year in
    itself is *usually* not an issue. This year, we've had two races in a row take place during
    snowstorms -- but this is the exception, not the rule. (2) Purpose ? Trying to get my racing
    strategy and pacing together. (3) Slippery ? the course wasn't all that slippery: it was dry
    snow on top of paved surface, which is still not that bad a surface. Note that there wasn't ice
    on the course.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
     
  16. MaryO49

    MaryO49 Guest

    Doug wrote:
    >So how about some reflections on injuries for this
    >> past year.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    Oh, Doug... I know, you are just DYING for me to tell you ALL about my foot injury, from start to
    finish, once again. Okay, well, pull up a chair. It all started when... What? Not again, you say?
    Okay, then, I'll hold off 'til I have something new to report. I just feel like I'm on the verge...
    there's going to be a big break in the case, maybe even tomorrow, after my appointment at a new
    doctor. Stay tuned. Mary
     
  17. Gentolm

    Gentolm Guest

    Doug Freese wrote: So how about some reflections on injuries for this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?
    only one-sacrum illium joint
    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?
    knock me out for 4 weeks
    > See a vet?
    chiro
    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.
    picking up 150-200 pound tree stump thnks 4 all yall hellp plodzilla
     
  18. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > Pretty soon there will be an end of year request to declare your running, weight loss and all
    > around positive goals and aspirations for next year. So how about some reflections on injuries for
    > this past year.
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?
    >
    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    rehabbing AT (from last year) which is function of foot/ankle issues - that's something that's going
    to happen regardless of what I do without addressing the flexibility / functional strength issues.
    And the ankle is noticeably improved this fall, but still has a ways to go if I want to spend much
    time running up 20-30% hills. No lost time for it from running this year (problems were from field
    work), although I may have done a couple runs shorter than planned.

    couple minor ankle twists - tripping over rock in dark; doing one too many laps of plyometrics and
    landing a little short when jumping over mats. Probably slowed me down for a 1-1.5 wk, but part of
    that was in high winds (70+ mph) so I took that as a sign from above to not run ;)

    hip area (flexors, upper ITB, pyriformis) - the trigger: probably 1 too many times up the mountain
    in conjunction with other things, like field work. The underlying cause: underlying muscle
    imbalances that my PT had identified a year ago and I also recognized during snowshoe running, and I
    hadn't adequately strengthened yet. Again, some of the time that I was down coincided with when I
    don't run anyway (field season recovery), and may have slowed me down a couple months. OTOH, I'm
    doing more this year than I did at same time last year.

    >
    > See a vet?

    Not this year. Last year my PT taught me to fish, rather than giving me a fish, so to speak. Any
    issues I had this year, I could deal with for the most part with the exercises he gave me last year
    when he recognized muscle imbalances.

    >
    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    underlying cause: muscle imbalances and not always recognizing early enough when they were going to
    be an issue.

    What did I learn this year in my experiments of one?

    While the cross-training class and the longer hill running were definitely challenging for some of
    my foot/ankle issues, they were also therapeutic. Sorta, what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. It
    was a struggle last winter trying to balance things. I managed to balance my field work and some
    running, frequently hills, through most of the summer, and it wasn't until almost the end when I
    messed up.

    BUT I now feel I have a *much* better feeling for what kinds of workouts really work for me and my
    goals, and some were probably beyond what I should be doing right now. I learned a lot about
    mountain running and tried some different techniques for both up and down. While I did find some
    edges of my current envelope, many were a lot farther out than I would have thought, had I not
    tried. While I messed up a couple times, I feel I have a much better knowledge of biomechanics,
    muscle weaknesses, etc. that need to be dealt with and am learning how to deal with many of them,
    BUT it will always be an ongoing learning process. I've got a stronger foundation to build on going
    forward now and hopefully can avoid the same mistakes. (probably find new ones)

    My body and brain communicate much better than they used to, although there's still an occasional
    breakdown. My achilles speaks quite well with my brain although it's been very quiet for a couple
    months. Hence, it's easier for me to stay back away from those edges of envelope until it's stronger
    (prevention *much* easier than fixing). With the other issues, I sometimes found myself on the edge
    before I realized it since they hadn't been challenged by my running in the past. I would rather
    find these things out now, when my running is still interrupted by field work (=recovery, usually)
    than when I can run more consistently. While some setbacks were involved, I can focus on specific
    strength this winter - AND know why I'm doing it.

    This year I'm alternating between doing the xt classes a few weeks, then doing more endurance work
    for 1-2 wks rather than letting the xt class dominate, which reduced both endurance and some
    strengthening. I also throttle back a little during the class to reduce the recovery time - enough
    so I can get 2-3 workouts in between. I'm working on form and fixing the muscle imbalances, which
    wouldn't have been pinpointed had I not tried some of the things I did this summer. Hopefully, this
    will act as injury prevention in the future.

    I'm starting to get a much better handle on how to juggle running, mt biking, field work, skiing,
    snowshoeing, swimming, and cross-training. Generally, don't do more than 2 or 3 in one week :) but
    also recognizing the overlap/differences in the different activities.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  19. Tim Downie

    Tim Downie Guest

    Doug Freese wrote:
    > Tim Downie wrote:
    >
    >
    >>> See a vet?
    >>
    >>
    >> Yes. As an ex-doctor I naturally jumped to worst-case-senario mode and assumed I had bone cancer
    >> or a stress fracture or something. Local sports injury clinic sorted me out.
    >
    > Do I dare ask how one becomes an Ex-doctor?

    A combination of marrying a wonderful woman, the demands of parenthood and relative earning
    potentials meant that it made more sense for me to look after the kids. I'm actually still
    registered although I think I'd need a fair bit of "bringing back up to speed" if I wanted to return
    to medicine now.

    > It has pejorative connotations such as getting your license pulled rather than retiring or
    > voluntarily trying another occupation.
    >
    > People involved in medicine make the worst patients.... ;)
    >
    >> Despite the above I reckon I have dodged injury pretty well this year. Mostly down to having
    >> chosen my parents well. ;-)
    >
    > Some modesty here? Maybe your training is correct for you abilities.

    Could be but given how haphazardly I train, lack of warm ups/cool downs and feeble stretching, I
    seem to lead a charmed life,

    > If you moved your mileage 120+ miles a week would your genes still carry you injury free? ;)

    I think that might be asking a bit much of anybody's genes. ;-)

    Tim

    --
    Remove the obvious to reply by email.
     
  20. Anthony

    Anthony Guest

    Doug Freese <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > In general did you have one or more injuries and what was the diagnosis?

    No serious injuries that caused any time out. A few "niggles"...
    >
    > Did it slow you down or knock you out and how long?

    Nope.
    >
    > See a vet?

    Nope. But lots of internet research...
    >
    > Take your best guess at what you think caused the injury.

    Hamstring - sprinting at the finish of a cross country race ITB - wear and tear. Knee - weaker
    quads, extra miles Adductor - during a stretch
    >
    > The corollary is also also valid - if you did not have an injury what do you think is your key for
    > staying healthy.

    Managed to avoid serious injuries by following some of your (Doug's) advice. Weekly increases by no
    more than 5% and relatively easy weeks every 3/4 weeks. Also try and do a solid 15 minute stretching
    session after 15-20 mins of running. Work on calves, hamstrings, quads, and ITB. Follow some of
    Ozzie's tips also, including massaging hamstrings while sitting on a tennis ball. If I felt I was
    pushing myself too much or felt that 1 of the "niggles" could develop further, I wasn't worried
    about missing a day, or running an easy session instead of a scheduled long or hard session.

    Anthony.
     
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