Inner tubes for MTB, Presta or car type? But pump problem with cartype.

[Jonathan Campbell]

I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes have
car type valves.

Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get any
of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump that
was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of mud
caked on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?

Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on this
earth that it will fit a car type valve.

Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about to
buy some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car type
valves or Presta? I see that Wiggle have what I want (Schwalbe City Jet
set of tyres and tubes) but car type valves in stock and not Presta; I
suppose this could mean anything --- that Presta MTB are popular and
sold out, or are unpopular and not often ordered.

(*) If it is likely that my pumps really cannot fit car type valves, can
anyone suggest a portable pump that does, or some workaround?

TIA,

Jon C.

 

[elyob]

"Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
>Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes have
>car type valves.
>
> Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get any
> of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
> 'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump that
> was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of mud caked
> on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?
>
> Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on this
> earth that it will fit a car type valve.
>
> Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about to buy
> some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car type valves or
> Presta? I see that Wiggle have what I want (Schwalbe City Jet set of tyres
> and tubes) but car type valves in stock and not Presta; I suppose this
> could mean anything --- that Presta MTB are popular and sold out, or are
> unpopular and not often ordered.
>
> (*) If it is likely that my pumps really cannot fit car type valves, can
> anyone suggest a portable pump that does, or some workaround?

Are you sure? Every pump I have will fit both sizes. I just need to unscrew
the casing and flip the rubber bit over.

 

[Pete Biggs]

elyob wrote:
> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
>> Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes
>> have car type valves.
>>
>> Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get
>> any of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
>> 'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump
>> that was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of
>> mud caked on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?
>>
>> Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on
>> this earth that it will fit a car type valve.
>>
>> Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about
>> to buy some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car
>> type valves or Presta? I see that Wiggle have what I want (Schwalbe
>> City Jet set of tyres and tubes) but car type valves in stock and
>> not Presta; I suppose this could mean anything --- that Presta MTB
>> are popular and sold out, or are unpopular and not often ordered.
>>
>> (*) If it is likely that my pumps really cannot fit car type valves,
>> can anyone suggest a portable pump that does, or some workaround?
>
> Are you sure? Every pump I have will fit both sizes. I just need to
> unscrew the casing and flip the rubber bit over.

Some pumps do not fit Schrader (car type) valves without an adapter because
their rubber bits are too minimal to be flippable. They're not necessarily
bad pumps, in fact some of them are excellent.

It's up to you Jonathan if you want to get a different pump (which may work
better than a Presta pump with an adapter) or different tubes.

Presta valves can be used with wheel rims with big valve holes with the use
of grommets - that a local bike shop should sell you.

~PB

 

[Jonathan Campbell]

elyob wrote:
>
> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
>> Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes
>> have car type valves.
>>
>> Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get
>> any of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
>> 'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump
>> that was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of
>> mud caked on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?
>>
>> Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on
>> this earth that it will fit a car type valve.
>>
>> Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about to
>> buy some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car type
>> valves or Presta? I see that Wiggle have what I want (Schwalbe City
>> Jet set of tyres and tubes) but car type valves in stock and not
>> Presta; I suppose this could mean anything --- that Presta MTB are
>> popular and sold out, or are unpopular and not often ordered.
>>
>> (*) If it is likely that my pumps really cannot fit car type valves,
>> can anyone suggest a portable pump that does, or some workaround?
>
> Are you sure? Every pump I have will fit both sizes. I just need to
> unscrew the casing and flip the rubber bit over.
>
>

(Paying attention also to Pete Bigg's post).

Yes, that's what I thought --- Luke's last sentence --- otherwise why
the screw off fitting on most pumps.

But I have the one that came with my bike in front of me now; remove the
screw fitting ... inside is first a rubber cylinder approx 8 mm. long, 8
mm. external diameter; the front half has internal diameter correct to
fit Presta; the back half has internal diameter that looks like it would
fit Schrader.

Behind that and fitting into the Schrader sized half is a plastic
thingummygig; when the rubber cylinder shape is reversed (attempting to
place the Schrader sized end on the outside), there is no way that the
Presta sized end will fit over the plastic thing --- I guess I could
force it, but then the rubber cylinder would never fit back in the pump.
The plastic thing looks like it does not come apart and the fit is even
worse if I reverse it.

I'll have a look at the other pumps in the morning; especially the
Innovations one with the two fitting sizes, although I had a good hard
try with the latter.

Incidentally, you may wonder why I don't just contact the seller and ask
him how to use the pump; but I happen to know that he is reluctant
repair punctures himself, and will phone for help if punctured on a run.
So, there's a good chance the pump was never used; OTOH, the whole
outfit was originally bought from a highly reputable bike shop.

Many thanks,

Jon

 

[Jonathan Campbell]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> elyob wrote:
>> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
>>> Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes
>>> have car type valves.
>>>
>>> Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get
>>> any of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
>>> 'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump
>>> that was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of
>>> mud caked on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?
>>>
>>> Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on
>>> this earth that it will fit a car type valve.
>>>
>>> Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about
>>> to buy some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car
>>> type valves or Presta? I see that Wiggle have what I want (Schwalbe
>>> City Jet set of tyres and tubes) but car type valves in stock and
>>> not Presta; I suppose this could mean anything --- that Presta MTB
>>> are popular and sold out, or are unpopular and not often ordered.
>>>
>>> (*) If it is likely that my pumps really cannot fit car type valves,
>>> can anyone suggest a portable pump that does, or some workaround?
>> Are you sure? Every pump I have will fit both sizes. I just need to
>> unscrew the casing and flip the rubber bit over.
>
> Some pumps do not fit Schrader (car type) valves without an adapter because
> their rubber bits are too minimal to be flippable. They're not necessarily
> bad pumps, in fact some of them are excellent.
>
> It's up to you Jonathan if you want to get a different pump (which may work
> better than a Presta pump with an adapter) or different tubes.
>
> Presta valves can be used with wheel rims with big valve holes with the use
> of grommets - that a local bike shop should sell you.

Ah, okay; so the Schrader valves do say something about the rims.

Many thanks,

Jon C.

 

[Simon Brooke]

Jonathan Campbell wrote:

> I have bought a second hand mountain bike from a friend (Specialized
> Hardrock Sport -- seems to be a great little bike). The inner tubes have
> car type valves.
>
> Although I was able to inflate them with my track pump, I cannot get any
> of my portable pumps to fit the car type valves; even a little
> 'Innovations' pump with apparently two outlet fittings and the pump that
> was on the bike --- and on it for some time given the amount of mud
> caked on it. Most likely stupidity on my part, but any ideas?
>
> Just looked again at the pump (Piccolo make), there seems no way on this
> earth that it will fit a car type valve.
>
> Assuming the portable pump problem can be resolved (*), I am about to
> buy some spare tyres and tubes, so, a related question --- car type
> valves or Presta?

There's no special benefit of either type - both work fine. I use prestas on
my mountain bikes simply because I use prestas on my road bikes; and that's
what my pumps are set up for.

It seems to me to make sense to standardise on one kind or another on all
your bikes, and if you ride racy bikes on the road you may well find that
schraeders won't fit through the holes in the rims.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It appears that /dev/null is a conforming XSL processor.

 

[Tom Anderson]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Pete Biggs wrote:

> elyob wrote:
>> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> car type valves or Presta?
>
> Presta valves can be used with wheel rims with big valve holes with the
> use of grommets - that a local bike shop should sell you.

Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim that
has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems to be
okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?

tom

--
Once, at a fair on the Heath, [Geoffrey Fletcher] overheard a man saying
that Hampstead wasn't thrilling enough. Fletcher reached over in the
darkness and stuck an ice lolly down the back of his shirt.

 

[Tim Hall]

On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:07:38 GMT, Jonathan Campbell
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>Yes, that's what I thought --- Luke's last sentence --- otherwise why
>the screw off fitting on most pumps.
>
>But I have the one that came with my bike in front of me now; remove the
>screw fitting ... inside is first a rubber cylinder approx 8 mm. long, 8
>mm. external diameter; the front half has internal diameter correct to
>fit Presta; the back half has internal diameter that looks like it would
>fit Schrader.
>
>Behind that and fitting into the Schrader sized half is a plastic
>thingummygig; when the rubber cylinder shape is reversed (attempting to
>place the Schrader sized end on the outside), there is no way that the
>Presta sized end will fit over the plastic thing --- I guess I could
>force it, but then the rubber cylinder would never fit back in the pump.
>The plastic thing looks like it does not come apart and the fit is even
>worse if I reverse it.

IME the plastic thing should be removable and reversible. One way
round it has a protrusion which depressesthe pin in the Schraeder
valve. The other way round it should be flat,or recessed, such that it
clears the pin of the Prestavalve.


--

Tim

I understand very little of what's being discussed
but for some reason it's fascinating.

(Jon Thompson, urs)

 

[Pete Biggs]

Tom Anderson wrote:
> Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim
> that has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems
> to be okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?

There might be an increased risk of failure around the valve with some
rim/tube combinations if the tube gets pushed down the hole much. But if
you've been using Presta valves OK with Schrader holes for some time, you
have proved that you don't /have/ to use grommets. I thought I should
suggest them though. They are cheap.

~PB

 

[Jonathan Campbell]

Tim Hall wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 18:07:38 GMT, Jonathan Campbell
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Yes, that's what I thought --- Luke's last sentence --- otherwise why
>> the screw off fitting on most pumps.
>>
>> But I have the one that came with my bike in front of me now; remove the
>> screw fitting ... inside is first a rubber cylinder approx 8 mm. long, 8
>> mm. external diameter; the front half has internal diameter correct to
>> fit Presta; the back half has internal diameter that looks like it would
>> fit Schrader.
>>
>> Behind that and fitting into the Schrader sized half is a plastic
>> thingummygig; when the rubber cylinder shape is reversed (attempting to
>> place the Schrader sized end on the outside), there is no way that the
>> Presta sized end will fit over the plastic thing --- I guess I could
>> force it, but then the rubber cylinder would never fit back in the pump.
>> The plastic thing looks like it does not come apart and the fit is even
>> worse if I reverse it.
>
> IME the plastic thing should be removable and reversible. One way
> round it has a protrusion which depressesthe pin in the Schraeder
> valve. The other way round it should be flat,or recessed, such that it
> clears the pin of the Prestavalve.
>
>

From looking at the pump that has two (separate) 'sockets', I began to
think that; however that pump seems to release pressure faster than I
can replace.

I'll experiment more today.

Many thanks,

Jon C.

 

[roger merriman]

On 22 Feb, 00:46, Tom Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Pete Biggs wrote:
> > elyob wrote:
> >> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
>
> >>> car type valves or Presta?
>
> > Presta valves can be used with wheel rims with big valve holes with the
> > use of grommets - that a local bike shop should sell you.
>
> Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim that
> has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems to be
> okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?
>
> tom
>
> --
> Once, at a fair on the Heath, [Geoffrey Fletcher] overheard a man saying
> that Hampstead wasn't thrilling enough. Fletcher reached over in the
> darkness and stuck an ice lolly down the back of his shirt.

should be fine, at least i've been running my old mtb with tires at
100psi with out them going pop!

roger

 

[Tom Anderson]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, Pete Biggs wrote:

> Tom Anderson wrote:
>
>> Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim that
>> has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems to be
>> okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?
>
> There might be an increased risk of failure around the valve with some
> rim/tube combinations if the tube gets pushed down the hole much. But
> if you've been using Presta valves OK with Schrader holes for some time,
> you have proved that you don't /have/ to use grommets.

In my case 'some time' is probably only six months, maybe nine. I can
conclude that this combination isn't instantly fatal, but might still be
causing accelerated wear round the valve.

> I thought I should suggest them though. They are cheap.

Fair enough - will pick some up next time i pass a bike shop.

tom

--
dream warrior, sun dancer

 

[Tom Anderson]

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008, roger merriman wrote:

> On 22 Feb, 00:46, Tom Anderson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008, Pete Biggs wrote:
>>> elyob wrote:
>>>> "Jonathan Campbell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> car type valves or Presta?
>>>
>>> Presta valves can be used with wheel rims with big valve holes with the
>>> use of grommets - that a local bike shop should sell you.
>>
>> Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim that
>> has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems to be
>> okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?
>
> should be fine, at least i've been running my old mtb with tires at
> 100psi with out them going pop!

Okay, good to hear - i'm usually around 60 psi, so probably nothing to
worry about! Still, i'm in a paranoid mood, so might get some anyway ...

tom

--
dream warrior, sun dancer

 

[Nick]

Pete Biggs wrote:
> Tom Anderson wrote:
>> Do you have to use grommets? I've put Presta-valved tubes on a rim
>> that has Schrader holes, sans grommets, and so far, everything seems
>> to be okay. Am i risking some kind of horrendous damage to my tube?
>
> There might be an increased risk of failure around the valve with some
> rim/tube combinations if the tube gets pushed down the hole much. But if
> you've been using Presta valves OK with Schrader holes for some time, you
> have proved that you don't /have/ to use grommets. I thought I should
> suggest them though. They are cheap.
>

Can you not just used the nut that comes with some presta inner tubes.
Instead of screwing it on after you have put the tube in you screw it on
before, so it is inside the rim.

I seem to remember doing this before on a bike that I had problems with,
although I think it was a presta rim as well as inner tube.

I certainly never saw any other use for these nuts, or the dust hat things.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Nick wrote:

> Can you not just used the nut that comes with some presta inner tubes.
> Instead of screwing it on after you have put the tube in you screw it
> on before, so it is inside the rim.

I suppose so. Not all Presta valves are threaded, though.

> I seem to remember doing this before on a bike that I had problems
> with, although I think it was a presta rim as well as inner tube.
>
> I certainly never saw any other use for these nuts, or the dust hat
> things.

The nuts are useful when using pumps that need some force to fit on the
valve. You can manage without by pushing the valve via the tyre with your
thumb, or relying on air pressure if already partially inflated, but a nut
makes it easier.

~PB