Innertubes and Patches

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Sam123, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. Sam123

    Sam123 New Member

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    Ok ive done lots of innertubes with punctures but i cant seem to repair them i do it properly but they all go down over night. Why? Sometimes they leak straight away and you can hear it i've had family try and they cant do it either. Even been to the bike shop and they told us what to do and still.. air leaked Ive used 3 types of patches. Anyone got suggestions?
     
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  2. Sam123

    Sam123 New Member

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    Ok ive done lots of innertubes with punctures but i cant seem to repair them i do it properly but they all go down over night. Why? Sometimes they leak straight away and you can hear it i've had family try and they cant do it either. Even been to the bike shop and they told us what to do and still.. air leaked Ive used 3 types of patches. Anyone got suggestions?
     
  3. tafi

    tafi Member

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    I may be telling you how to suck eggs but here are a few points that are worth adhering to:

    • Depending on the size of tube and patch there's a limit to the size of hole which can be patched. I've never bothered patching any hole more than a few mm in size (usually they are just pinholes), and the patches I use are only about 20~25mm in diameter. The patches (and the glued area) need to be a LOT bigger than the size of the hole since the glued bond is weaker (per unit area) than the original tube.
    • Make sure that the rubber of the tube is scored before applying glue. Coarse sandpaper is good for removing the smooth surface of the tube.
    • Apply glue to a space a AT LEAST as big as (preferably bigger than) the size of the patch. Don't worry if you leave glued areas exposed, the glue doesn't bond to anything apart from the patch and you need the patch to be bonded all the way around the edge.
    • Wait for the glue to dry on the tube before applying the patch. You should be able to check the glue is dry by sight (DON'T CHECK BY TOUCHING IT!!). Fingers contaminate the glued surface.
     
  4. BHOFM

    BHOFM Active Member

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    I use the Scabs patch from Walmart. I have done fifty in the last few years and never had a failure.
    Neighborhood kids think my house is the local bike shop!

    They are glue-less. Clean the area with the little tool that comes in the package, make sure the
    tube is fully deflated, this is very important. If it is not it will cause wrinkles and leaks.
    You can not patch a tube that has stop leak in it!
    You must get the "object" out of the tire. Check the rim tape each time,, CLOSELY!!

    Mark the location of the tire in relation to the valve stem so locating the "object" is easier.

    I talc the tubes but is doesn't seem to effect the patch sticking if it is cleaned as instructed.

    I know one person that used spray lube in the tire and not sure if a patch will ever stick to the
    tube now???
     
  5. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    I've had good results with the glue-less patches as long as I immediately install and inflate the tube (as in an on-road repair). Seems the few times I've used the patch at home after changing a tube on the road, then let the tube sit for months before re-using it, I've had leakage.

    Perhaps the "clamping force" of the inflated tube in the tire helps the patch bond while the adhesive is still fresh, or maybe it's just due to random luck. Actually haven't had any punctures for a couple of years now, so my experience with the ParkTool patches is dated.
     
  6. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    When you pull the innertube out of the tire keep it's orientation the same and inflate - when you find the hole in the tube you'll also figure out where the "pokey" thing is stuck in the tire.

    Fixing the puncture is pretty basic and the instructions really do a good job of telling you what to do, as it varies from whether you're using a kit with basic glue or something like the Rema Tip-Top kit which uses a vulcanizing solution that causes a reaction to with the patch to bond itself (vulcanize) to the inner tube. Whether it actually is vulcanization is debateable but I find the Tip-Top kits work the best.

    Clean the area and sand down any ridges and give the area around the hole a light sanding to rough up the surface a little.
    Apply 'glue' as specified - read the instructions - do you apply to the patch or just the tube... or both.
    Apply the patch as specified after the desired waiting period.
    ... and you should be good to go.

    I'd give putting talc on butyl tubes a miss - pretty much pointless.

    Of course, this is a pain in the backside to do out on the road - which is why carrying a couple of spare tubes is nice.
     
  7. Eichers

    Eichers New Member

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    Yes, ParkTool super patches are the best glueless patches that I used to date (not that I have used that many). They stick with ease, are super thin, and strong /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif
     
  8. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    I have had the same results using scab glueless patches. I only use them out on the road. The tubes I repair at home I use the good old fashioned glue and patch method. I follow the directions supplied with the kit and the shelf life of the repair is good. Now if I would only get around to fixing the 1/2 dozen tubes I have in the garage.
     
  9. jackson123

    jackson123 New Member

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    I have had the same results using scab glueless patches. I only use them out on the road. The tubes I repair at home I use the good old fashioned glue and patch method. I follow the directions supplied with the kit and the shelf life of the repair is good. Now if I would only get around to fixing the 1/2 dozen tubes I have in the garage.

    so many stuff???
     
  10. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I had horrid luck with Scabs Glueless patches, BUT I've had great success with Park Glueless patches. As you said, you need to buff the tube an area a bit larger then the patch. Then press real hard between your index and thumb for 30 seconds. If your still having trouble then buff tube, and then clean the area with an alcohol pad, then press the patch on.
     
  11. BHOFM

    BHOFM Active Member

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    Froze,

    To be honest Scabs are all I have ever used. Like I said, no problems, but for the first one
    I did. I stuck the patch on while the tube still had air in it and when I deflated it the tube shrunk and
    the patch got wrinkles in it and leaked right off the bat. I put another patch on when the tube was
    full deflated and there was no problem. Getting the first one off without tearing the tube took some
    work. I found the after getting an edge started I could roll it off with the palm of my hand.

    Some say they would rather carry a tube, but I ride a hybrid and there is plenty of room to get
    the tire off the rim without taking the wheel off the bike. My front wheel has a quick release but
    the rear has nuts and for some reason it is a pain to get off. Getting the derailleur and chain out
    of the way is hard to do in the shop, much less on the side of the road. And you get all greasy.

    I made some hooks to hold the chain and derailleur when I take the wheel off in the shop. Recycling
    coat hangers!!!

    I say if it works for you, use it..
     
  12. supersix 105

    supersix 105 New Member

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    had a flat this morning,found the one and only torn on the asphalt/img/vbsmilies/smilies/nonono2.gif luckily decided to bring my patch kit/img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif i have the scab kit,followed directions voila!was skeptical at first inflated tire at 50psi then rode home.i decided to test the patch i then inflated it to 110psi and wait to see if it will hold it's been 10hrs still solid i guess i'm still using the tube/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
     
  13. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Pressure from the tube exerting against the inside of the tire will keep the patch nice and sealed against the tube. Maybe they changed the compound on the Scabs and they work better now, all I know is the scabs would not stick to the tube like the Park, 3M, and the Specialized brand of glueless patch.
     
  14. Reid2

    Reid2 Member

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    I like the idea of the self-stick patch, and can see how it works, as noted by another,
    air pressure of the tube against the casing 'sticks' that thin patch in place.

    I would try the glueless patches someday, but, I have a supply of regular kit patches,
    and all my punctures are slow leaks at worst, (big fat tires don't go down very fast, not during a ride, not often)

    A sample video of the old style patch, to find and patch a leak without pulling off the cruiser bike's three speed rear wheel,


    fwiw (but! I would try "glueless" too!)



    Alvaro at THD rides twenty four miles per day (round trip to work and home).

    He runs high pressure road bike tires. I asked him if he patches tubes, and he laughed,

    "Sure, always! For at least ten patches, then I will replace the tube. They hold air fine."

    ((I don't know what type of patch he uses, will ask))
     
  15. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    I've been using glueless patches for over 15 years and never had one fail. They stick hard and fast, I tried peeling one off once and it tore the tube! I use glueless patches as a permanent patch...not a temporary one to get me home then I'll fix it for real type of nonsense. The glueless patch is faster then a glue on patch too because you don't have to wait for the glue to dry before applying the patch; plus you will never discover that your glue tube has dried up and now you have no glue. I don't know how long a unused glueless patch adhesive will last because I usually go through a 6 pack in a year so I buy new one when I use a full pack (I keep two 6 packs in my seat bag because they take up hardly any space, and when I use up one I buy another). I buy only Park, 3M, or Specialized glueless patches.
     
  16. Reid2

    Reid2 Member

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    Froze, thanks. Do you have any custom tips for such good results?
    Do you just scuff the punctured area, or do you also wipe it with solvent (which I do at home, it's no trouble)
    I would like to try glueless patches next, though for me, the little five dollar, conventional kit from the LBS
    gives me ten patches, and as you see in my little video, it's no time-penalty to use the old-style, not at here at home.
    I never have had a flat on the road, but once, when I rode my balloon-tired bike with a slow leak, and it went down,
    about a mile away from home. That's one advantage of cruiser tires, they don't often go down fast, due to their air volume
    being so much greater than that of road bike tires.

    I will get pack of glueless patches, of one of the brands you recommend, for the next go-round,
    thanks.
     
  17. Froze

    Froze Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you do to apply glue on patches you do the same thing except no glue is needed. This means that your buff an area slightly larger then the patch will cover, clean with an alcohol pad, then peel the backing off the patch with your nails from a corner so as to only touch a smallest area of the patch that you can, apply patch so that the hole is in the center, then press on by placing your index finger on the backside of the tube and your thumb on the top side where the patch is...and press very hard changing locations on the patch to make sure all areas are being pressed. This pressing in all areas means you start pressing in the center then the corners which will also cover some of the center area again.

    Then install and inflate.

    As you can see the routine is the same as glue on patches, it's that simple. Most of time I don't even clean the tube after buffing it with alcohol, but it's all but guaranteed that if you do clean with alcohol it will stick and stick better.

    Some people for whatever reason don't have much success with glueless patches, but I've never had a problem, the preparation of the tube is very important and I think the ones that fail either don't prepare the tube correctly or their using some off brand. I had very poor luck with the Scab brand of glueless patches but not one failure with Park, 3M, or Specialized glueless patches.

    I've had as many as 13 glueless patches on a main tube and not one failed after 5 years. I got into an arguement on another forum once that glueless patches won't work with very high pressure even after I told him that the pressure of the tube against the tire would prevent it from failing. So I took a MB tire/tube and put a hole into the tube and patched with glueless patch. put the tire on then placed the rim into a trash can (you'll see why) and connect an air chuck with a long extension hose and a remote trigger and hid behind my car. I then inflated it to 220 psi! (after making sure it was evenly seated of course). I left it that way for a week and the patch held. I then let the air out and and removed the tube from the tire to look at the patch and it was on so hard I could not peel it off unless I ripped the tube doing it. That patch held up for 12 years before I finally trashed the tube because the valve cracked.

    I swear by glueless patches.
     
  18. davereo

    davereo Well-Known Member

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    IMO it is easier to remove the wheel when repairing a flat. Inspection of the tire and tube are very important and a lot easier with both off the bike. I use vulcanizing patches and apply a layer of glue to the tube and the patch. You should always remove the mend line in the tube with the sand paper before applying glue and patch.
     
  19. dhk2

    dhk2 Active Member

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    Froze, that's quite an endorsement.....your acid test has sold me. Actually, I've used Park Glueless patches to good effect in the past for on-the-road punctures. The only time I had a failed patch is on a tube I patched at home. After sticking the patch on, I just put the tube in my seatpack, only to find it leaked some months later when I needed it.

    So, my question is, do you think it's essential to install and inflate a freshly-patched tube right away, so the patch is forced against the tire while it "cures"?
     
  20. tonyzackery

    tonyzackery Well-Known Member

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    Gllue and regular patches for this kid who apparently isn't smart or handy enough to get the glueless wonders to hold longer than an hour or two (at best). I've gotten so arrogant with the regular patches that I cut them in half so that their size better fits the narrow 700x18/23mm road bike tubes. No problems. On the very rare occasion I'll get a leak, but it's a simple matter to pull off the patch and replace. The glueless wonders leave too much residue to re-do a failed patch...ymmv, of course...

    Just too many failures with the glueless guys to trust them...
     
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