Installing Campy Dual Pivot brake calipers to a frame without recessed mounts

[Johhny Two Pedals]

How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
that does not have provisions for recessed mounting? The Campy spare
parts catalog does not show a longer pivot/mounting bolt. I'm pretty
sure this problem must have come up and been addressed already, but I
couldn't find anything in a Google search. I'll opt for a different
set of calipers if I have to, but would rather not.

Thanks in advance

 

[Andy M-S]

You can drill out the backside of the fork and brake bridge to allow
the smaller portion of the nut to pass. I did this front and rear on
one bike, and my current rain bike has the fork drilled. I don't
recall the bit size, but you can figure it out from your bit set.

The hard part is drilling the brake bridge, which may not even be
advisable (take a look at the passage and decide. In my case, with an
old Austro-Daimler, I decided to put a long-reach dual pivot on in
front, and so drilled the back of the fork, but one look at the brake
bridge in back told me that this was a bad idea, so I found a cable
hanger and put an old nutted centerpull on there (though any nutted
brake would do--I just happen to have a bunch of CPs in the right
size).

You could probably get away with finding a suitable nutted rear brake.
Things won't match, but the front is your major stopping tool anyway.
Then sell off the extra Campy DP.

Hmm. Depending on your frame, there is one additional strategy that
MIGHT work. Get to your LBS and ask for an extra-long recessed nut
(QBP makes them). See if that will allow you to properly engage the
REAR Campy brake in front (not just one or two threads--you want solid
engagement). If that works, drill out the fork as above and mount the
rear brake in front. Then use the front brake in back...just find a
suitable nut to hold it in place. It's likely that everyone will
wonder where you were able to get a nutted Campy DP brake!

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:43:57 -0800, Johhny Two Pedals wrote:

> How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
> that does not have provisions for recessed mounting?

That is likely to be a pretty old frame. Any standard road frame from
about 1973 onward would have the larger hole for the recessed rear nut.

I drilled out the back of the fork, and all of the brake bridge, on two
bikes. No problems, but then it has only been 10-15 years for one bike,
and only 5 for the other, so maybe...

> The Campy spare
> parts catalog does not show a longer pivot/mounting bolt.

You'd be hard-pressed to find these. The switch predated dual-pivots by
maybe 20 years, so by the time dual-pivots came out, there would not be
much need to accomodate the old frames. Again, drilling out the frame
should work fine.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Arguing with an engineer is like mud wrestling with a pig... You
_`\(,_ | soon find out the pig likes it!
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Dave Reckoning]

"Andy M-S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
....
If that works, drill out the fork as above and mount the
> rear brake in front. Then use the front brake in back...just find a
> suitable nut to hold it in place. It's likely that everyone will
> wonder where you were able to get a nutted Campy DP brake!

The only concern here would be that the current batch of Campy front brakes
are dual pivot and the campy rears are single pivot. Swapping them would put
more stopping power on the back where it is of limited use. I am not saying
this would not work, just that it is a less than optimal solution which
should be considered carefully.

Dave

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Johhny Two Pedals wrote:

> How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
> that does not have provisions for recessed mounting? The Campy spare
> parts catalog does not show a longer pivot/mounting bolt. I'm pretty
> sure this problem must have come up and been addressed already, but I
> couldn't find anything in a Google search. I'll opt for a different
> set of calipers if I have to, but would rather not.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/recessed

Sheldon "Workarounds" Brown
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| People who go broke in a big way never miss any meals. |
| It is the poor jerk who is shy half a slug |
| who must tighten his belt. --Robert A. Heinlein |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Art Harris]

Andy M-S wrote:

> Depending on your frame, there is one
> additional strategy that
> MIGHT work. Get to your LBS and ask for an > extra-long recessed nut

> (QBP makes them). See if that will allow you > to properly engage
the
> REAR Campy brake in front (not just one or
> two threads--you want solid
> engagement). If that works, drill out the fork as > above and mount
the
> rear brake in front. Then use the front brake in > back...just find
a
> suitable nut to hold it in place.

Or you can use the "no drill, ultimate recessed bolt" method. Put the
rear brake on the front, and place the recessed nut INSIDE the steer
tube. Attach it to the caliper bolt, and tighten by placing an allen
key through the back hole in the fork. I've been using that method on
one of my bikes for a couple of years with no problem at all.

As someone else pointed out the Campy rear brake is single pull, so
that is an issue if you want maximum braking power on the front.

Also, if the frame is old enough to have nutted brake attachments, it
may not work with short reach brakes.

Art Harris

 

[Andy M-S]

I don't think *all* Campy brakes use the single-pivot rear as of now;
I've seen it on Record and maybe Chorus, but I don't think Centaur has
differential brakes as of now. I'm assuming that since the OP called
them DP's, that's what they are.

It's also possible that this isn't a brand-new set...

 

[Mark Janeba]

David L. Johnson wrote:
> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:43:57 -0800, Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
>
>>How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
>>that does not have provisions for recessed mounting?
>
>
> That is likely to be a pretty old frame. Any standard road frame from
> about 1973 onward would have the larger hole for the recessed rear nut.

Not so with my '81 Raleigh Pro - had to drill!

Mark Janeba

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:31:05 -0800, Mark Janeba wrote:

> David L. Johnson wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:43:57 -0800, Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
>>
>>>How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
>>>that does not have provisions for recessed mounting?
>>
>>
>> That is likely to be a pretty old frame. Any standard road frame from
>> about 1973 onward would have the larger hole for the recessed rear nut.
>
> Not so with my '81 Raleigh Pro - had to drill!

Huh. I stand corrected. But certainly some bikes had these recessed nuts
as early as 1971. I recall Bianchis certainly did.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | "Business!" cried the Ghost. "Mankind was my business. The
_`\(,_ | common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance,
(_)/ (_) | and benevolence, were, all, my business. The dealings of my
trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my
business!" --Dickens, "A Christmas Carol"

 

[A Muzi]

Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
> How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
> that does not have provisions for recessed mounting? The Campy spare
> parts catalog does not show a longer pivot/mounting bolt. I'm pretty
> sure this problem must have come up and been addressed already, but I
> couldn't find anything in a Google search. I'll opt for a different
> set of calipers if I have to, but would rather not.

If you mean a vintage frame without provision for allen
mounting, it is possible to mount the front caliper at the
seatstay bridge with a regular 6mm Nylok nut. Drill the
back of the fork crown from 6 to 8mm , mount the rear
caliper on the fork with an extra long allen nut.
Do remember to flip your brake shoes around.
Especially ensure you have full engagement of the front
brake bolt threads.

Alternately, drill the fork and have the seatstay bridge
replaced.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

> "Andy M-S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> ...
> If that works, drill out the fork as above and mount the
>>rear brake in front. Then use the front brake in back...just find a
>>suitable nut to hold it in place. It's likely that everyone will
>>wonder where you were able to get a nutted Campy DP brake!

Dave Reckoning wrote:
> The only concern here would be that the current batch of Campy front brakes
> are dual pivot and the campy rears are single pivot. Swapping them would put
> more stopping power on the back where it is of limited use. I am not saying
> this would not work, just that it is a less than optimal solution which
> should be considered carefully.

Distributors offer Campagnolo brakes to dealers in both
DP/SP and DP/DP format.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[A Muzi]

>>>>On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:43:57 -0800, Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
>>>>How does one mount a set of Campy Dual Pivot calipers on a frameset
>>>>that does not have provisions for recessed mounting?

>>>David L. Johnson wrote:
>>>That is likely to be a pretty old frame. Any standard road frame from
>>>about 1973 onward would have the larger hole for the recessed rear nut.

>> On Mon, 07 Feb 2005 20:31:05 -0800, Mark Janeba wrote:
>>Not so with my '81 Raleigh Pro - had to drill!

David L. Johnson wrote:
> Huh. I stand corrected. But certainly some bikes had these recessed nuts
> as early as 1971. I recall Bianchis certainly did.

_Some_ Bianchis. Superleggeras, sure, but not Alloro or
Nuovo Racing. Allen mount took a while to drip down to
everyday race bikes.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Johhny Two Pedals]

Thanks again to all who replied....

I had toyed with the idea of drilling out the fork and brake bridge,
but wanted to get some affirmation fromm those in the know. I'd hate
to become a human bumper sticker and have to say "Gee, it seemed like a
good idea at the time....".

If I do decide to drill out the mounting holes, should they become 8 mm
through holes, or is there a standard dimension for a counterbore?
Perhaps a 8 mm sleeve to act as a bushing for the through hole ( or am
I over engineering this? I don't know if I like the idea of the caliper
side of the mounting bolt being unsupported in an 8 mm through hole. )

Replacing the brake bridge is a wonderful idea, and will probably
happen when the frame gets repainted.

And no, I'm not going high enough in the Campy line to encounter the
Differential calipers, Centaur or Veloce calipers are excellent values.
High zoot will have to wait until the girls are out of college.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Johhny Two Pedals wrote:

> I had toyed with the idea of drilling out the fork and brake bridge,

Fork, yes; brake bridge, no!

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/recessed for detailed recommendations.

> but wanted to get some affirmation fromm those in the know. I'd hate
> to become a human bumper sticker and have to say "Gee, it seemed like a
> good idea at the time....".
>
> If I do decide to drill out the mounting holes, should they become 8 mm
> through holes, or is there a standard dimension for a counterbore?
> Perhaps a 8 mm sleeve to act as a bushing for the through hole ( or am
> I over engineering this? I don't know if I like the idea of the caliper
> side of the mounting bolt being unsupported in an 8 mm through hole. )

Me neither.

Sheldon "Answers" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
| Weed - a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. |
| --R.W. Emerson |
+--------------------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[A Muzi]

Johhny Two Pedals wrote:
> I had toyed with the idea of drilling out the fork and brake bridge,
> but wanted to get some affirmation fromm those in the know. I'd hate
> to become a human bumper sticker and have to say "Gee, it seemed like a
> good idea at the time....".
>
> If I do decide to drill out the mounting holes, should they become 8 mm
> through holes, or is there a standard dimension for a counterbore?
> Perhaps a 8 mm sleeve to act as a bushing for the through hole ( or am
> I over engineering this? I don't know if I like the idea of the caliper
> side of the mounting bolt being unsupported in an 8 mm through hole. )
>
> Replacing the brake bridge is a wonderful idea, and will probably
> happen when the frame gets repainted.
>
> And no, I'm not going high enough in the Campy line to encounter the
> Differential calipers, Centaur or Veloce calipers are excellent values.
> High zoot will have to wait until the girls are out of college.

The fork crown ideally wants to end with a 6+ mm hole in
front, 8+ mm in back.

A recess on the back side 10+ mm diameter and 2mm deep makes
the job look nicer but isn't critical.

Again, get 6mm of thread engagement. Less is not OK for a
front brake.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[David L. Johnson]

On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 12:13:18 -0500, Sheldon Brown wrote:

>> If I do decide to drill out the mounting holes, should they become 8 mm
>> through holes, or is there a standard dimension for a counterbore?
>> Perhaps a 8 mm sleeve to act as a bushing for the through hole ( or am
>> I over engineering this?

I think a sleeve is a good idea. IIRC that's what I did.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Let's not escape into mathematics. Let's stay with reality. --
_`\(,_ | Michael Crichton
(_)/ (_) |

 

[Sheldon Brown]

A Muzi wrote:

> Again, get 6mm of thread engagement. Less is not OK for a front brake.

Right. Just to clarify, brake center bolts have a 1 mm thread pitch, so
6 mm of thread engagement means 6 complete revolutions of the nut from
where it first begins to grab.

Sheldon "Counting Is Easier Than Measuring" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------+
| The less you bet, the more you lose if you win |
| --Alan Rudolph (_Trixie_) |
+--------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com