Integrated headsets, any experience?

[Bryan]

OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated headsets.

I've read the Chris King article, and it does seem to make sense. I've also checked the past postings and the majority seem to be from denizens of rbt, but without much experience of them.

So the question is are they purely a marketing thing, (after all if the head tube does ovalise, it's new frame time, so the frame manufactureers are happy) do they convey any benefits (I presonally cant;see ay), or do they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?

Bryan

p.s. Condor said they would build me a custom Ti frame with non-integrated headset

 

[Clive George]

"Bryan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems
> aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
> headsets.
>
> I've read the Chris King article, and it does seem to make sense. I've
> also checked the past postings and the majority seem to be from denizens
> of rbt, but without much experience of them.
>
> So the question is are they purely a marketing thing, (after all if the
> head tube does ovalise, it's new frame time, so the frame manufactureers
> are happy) do they convey any benefits (I presonally cant;see ay), or do
> they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?

Benefit: Easier to fit the headset - requires no press for the bits on the
frame.

Experience - well, my bike isn't broken yet. Ask me again in 10 years...

cheers,
clive

 

[David E. Belcher]

Bryan wrote:

> do they convey any benefits (I presonally cant;see ay)

*Might* be a possible weight saving, though I'd imagine it's tiny.

> or do
> they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?
>

Have to agree here - integrated headsets (with the sole exception of
the original Vitus 992-Mavic/Stronglight design for threaded forks)
seem to lend a not-quite-finished appearance to the front end.

>
> p.s. Condor said they would build me a custom Ti frame with
> non-integrated headset

Quite a few Ti builders (e.g. Litespeed and Merlin) seem to prefer
conventional headset cups; I don't know if this is due to any
manufacturing complications - bumping up the expense - thrown up by the
frame material itself. The Bianchi S9V has an integrated H/S, but it's
apparently one of the most expensive Ti bikes on the market.

David Belcher

 

[Jim Price]

Bryan wrote:
> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems
> aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
> headsets.
>
> I've read the Chris King article, and it does seem to make sense. I've
> also checked the past postings and the majority seem to be from denizens
> of rbt, but without much experience of them.

I won't be getting any experience of them while I have a say in the matter.

> So the question is are they purely a marketing thing, (after all if the
> head tube does ovalise, it's new frame time, so the frame manufactureers
> are happy) do they convey any benefits (I presonally cant;see ay), or do
> they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?

I usually blame marketing departments when something gets "fixed" which
didn't need fixing. There is absolutely no performance gain to be had by
using the integrated design, and the maintenance "advantage" comes with
the disadvantage that you may well have to throw the frame away when you
do need to do some maintenance. No other part on a properly designed
bicycle is designed such that steel can rub directly against aluminium,
and for a very good reason.

I am a closet watch and clock enthusiast, and note that many of the
major advances in watch and clock design have come about through
supplanting designs where metal scrapes against metal. This exercise had
been completed for bicycles until the integrated headset design.

While on the subject, my first two rules of Bodgineering are:
1. If it rattles, its going to fall apart.
2. If it scrapes, its going to wear out.

> p.s. Condor said they would build me a custom Ti frame with
> non-integrated headset

That's gotta be nice! I like Condor's bikes a lot, although I haven't
ridden one for years. I almost sorted that out recently when a steel
Condor Pista came up on eBay. Sadly the auction was withdrawn before it
completed. I was the winning bidder at the time by a long way. Ah well,
some day.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

 

[Jim Price]

David E. Belcher wrote:
> Quite a few Ti builders (e.g. Litespeed and Merlin) seem to prefer
> conventional headset cups; I don't know if this is due to any
> manufacturing complications - bumping up the expense - thrown up by the
> frame material itself. The Bianchi S9V has an integrated H/S, but it's
> apparently one of the most expensive Ti bikes on the market.

Are you sure that isn't an FSA Orbit ZS, which is an internal headset,
not an integrated one.

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA

 

[Arthur Clune]

Bryan wrote:
>
> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems
> aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
> headsets.

Is it a real integrated headset (bearings run on the frame) or a
semi-integrated/hiddenset type system with cups pressed into the
frame. The latter are fine IMO, though I still prefer a conventional
headset.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

 

[Bryan]

Bryan wrote:
>
> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems
> aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
> headsets.

Is it a real integrated headset (bearings run on the frame) or a
semi-integrated/hiddenset type system with cups pressed into the
frame. The latter are fine IMO, though I still prefer a conventional
headset.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

All seemed to be proper integrated rather than semi/hidde/internal whatever people want to call them.

I just think they look horrid.

Bryan

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Bryan
('[email protected]') wrote:

> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it seems
> aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
> headsets.
>
> I've read the Chris King article, and it does seem to make sense. I've
> also checked the past postings and the majority seem to be from
> denizens of rbt, but without much experience of them.
>
> So the question is are they purely a marketing thing, (after all if the
> head tube does ovalise, it's new frame time, so the frame
> manufactureers are happy) do they convey any benefits (I presonally
> cant;see ay), or do they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?

Just looks sensible and logical to me. Easier to fit, stronger when
fitted. No problems with mine - once I'd got exactly the right model.
There's no standard for them yet, so the only integrated headset that
will fit a frame is the one the frame was designed for. And as for ugly,
quite the opposite.

NB: If Condor Cycles upsets your credit card, don't take it anywhere near
Terry Dolan.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Let's have a moment of silence for all those Americans who are stuck
;; in traffic on their way to the gym to ride the stationary bicycle.
;; Rep. Earl Blumenauer (Dem, OR)

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Simon
Brooke ('[email protected]') wrote:

> in message <[email protected]>, Bryan
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> OK, I'm investigating getting a enw road nike, and after looking at a
>> few (note to self do not take credit card to Condor cycles it
>> seems aparent that most high end bikes are now coming with integrated
>> headsets.
>>
>> I've read the Chris King article, and it does seem to make sense.
>> I've also checked the past postings and the majority seem to be from
>> denizens of rbt, but without much experience of them.
>>
>> So the question is are they purely a marketing thing, (after all if
>> the head tube does ovalise, it's new frame time, so the frame
>> manufactureers are happy) do they convey any benefits (I presonally
>> cant;see ay), or do they just make the bike look more ugly (IMHO)?
>
> Just looks sensible and logical to me. Easier to fit, stronger when
> fitted. No problems with mine - once I'd got exactly the right model.
> There's no standard for them yet, so the only integrated headset that
> will fit a frame is the one the frame was designed for. And as for
> ugly, quite the opposite.

Scratch that. Mine is one of those described in another post as 'hidden'
- it has outer races, but they fit inside shaped recesses in the frame.
I've no experience of headsets with no outer races.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; part time troll.

 

[Jim Price]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> Just looks sensible and logical to me. Easier to fit, stronger when
> fitted.

Why do you think it's stronger?

JimP

--
Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable, let's prepare to
grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after
all. - DNA