Interest in shopping by bike

[Ekul Namsob]

Dervin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:09 +0100, Brian G wrote:
>
> > At the supermarket this morning I was approached by three separate
> > drivers who asked serious and sensible questions about the
> > practicalities of doing the weekly or twice weekly shop with a bicycle
> > and trailer. This has never happened before. Interestingly, each one
> > mentioned the rising cost of petrol as the reason for the enquiries.
>
> How easy is it? I only own a road bike so I could only buy what I could
> comfortably fit in a bag. What kind of bike do you ride to go shopping?

Most of the time, I ride my road bike to go shopping and take my 23
litre Bagaboo messenger bag [1]. I can fairly easily get a few days
shopping in there. It helps that I get most of my fruit and veg
delivered by an organic grocer.

In the past, I've used my large Karrimor rucsack for greater quantities
of shopping but decent panniers make life a lot more comfortable.

Cheers,
Luke

[1] <http://www.flickr.com/photos/16373547@N07/2583793932/>

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[Ekul Namsob]

JB <[email protected]> wrote:

> My local Waitrose now offers a free loan of a Bike Hod
> (www.bikehod.com) to customers to get their shopping home. It can be
> returned up to 3 days later, and they have more than one.

Sadly, my local Waitrose is 18 miles away in Southport. I was astonished
recently to discover that there is no cycle parking at all at my local
Co-op: I couldn't even find a suitable lamppost.

Cheers,
Luke

--
Red Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in
exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk>

 

[JNugent]

Ekul Namsob wrote:
> JB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My local Waitrose now offers a free loan of a Bike Hod
>> (www.bikehod.com) to customers to get their shopping home. It can be
>> returned up to 3 days later, and they have more than one.
>
> Sadly, my local Waitrose is 18 miles away in Southport. I was astonished
> recently to discover that there is no cycle parking at all at my local
> Co-op: I couldn't even find a suitable lamppost.

Haven't they got toilets inside the building?

 

[David Hansen]

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:45:20 +0100 someone who may be
[email protected] (Ekul Namsob) wrote this:-

>Sadly, my local Waitrose is 18 miles away in Southport. I was astonished
>recently to discover that there is no cycle parking at all at my local
>Co-op: I couldn't even find a suitable lamppost.

In my local Co-op bikes go inside and are left just inside the door
by the post office display. There are outside lamp posts and
railings too.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

 

[[email protected]]

On 20 Jun, 21:56, Dervin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 11:36:09 +0100, Brian G wrote:
> > At the supermarket this morning I was approached by three separate
> > drivers who asked serious and sensible questions about the
> > practicalities of doing the weekly or twice weekly shop with a bicycle
> > and trailer. This has never happened before. Interestingly, each one
> > mentioned the rising cost of petrol as the reason for the enquiries.
>
> How easy is it? I only own a road bike so I could only buy what I could
> comfortably fit in a bag. What kind of bike do you ride to go shopping?

It's amazing how much stuff you can fit in just a well packed
rucksack. I only use a road bike and have never had to worry about
trailers or panniers to get my twice weekly shop home(only shopping
for myself though).

As an aside, I have managed to transport an entire flat pack 6 ft high
shelf unit on the road bike - gaffer taped it to the frame and set of
at a slightly bandy legged cadence.

 

[John Kane]

On Jun 21, 3:14 pm, Danny Colyer <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 21/06/2008 17:07, John Kane wrote:
>
> >> So it seems that while neither improving physical fitness nor concern
> >> for environmental matters has prompted them to consider leaving the car
> >> in the driveway, a good kick in the wallet is doing the trick.
>
> > I have not had that happen here in Canada ...
>
> Yebbut from what I've read North Americans are still only paying about
> half of what British motorists pay for petrol, so even with less
> efficient cars the kick in the wallet isn't quite so hard.

Yes and no. A quick look at a local price website suggests motorists
are paying about CDN$1.35 / l or roughy GBP0.68 but the shock is
still there. Going from something like CND0.89 to CDN1.35 is a
distinct shock for people. If one had not budgeted for something in
the range of a 50% increase it can be a very nasty shock.

From what I have seen of the UK and France, urban sprawl is much worse
here and so median travel distances are likely to be higher[1]. Also
outside of a few large urban areas our infastructure is a lot less
dense so a lot of trips are going to be longer distance. Trips to do
special shopping , see medical specialists etc are likely to be longer
here for a significant part of the Canadian population.

Also we probably have a lot more large SUV's and larger cars. A few
people may be catching on to the idea that it does not take a Ford 250
to pick up a dozen eggs and a litre of milk.

So, just guessing, I think that people in Canada may be paying
something closer to what people in the UK pay than you think but for
more mileage and bigger vehicles.

John Kane Kingston ON Canada


1. This does not necessarily apply to commuting since a surprising
number of Canadian commuters have quite short commutes.
http://ca.geocities.com/jrkrideau/cycling/commute.png

 

[Paul Weaver]

On 20 Jun, 17:16, bornfree <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 20 Jun, 12:55, Nat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 20 Jun, 11:54, "PoB" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > "Brian G" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >news:[email protected]...
>
> > > | So it seems that while neither improving physical fitness nor concern
> > > | for environmental matters has prompted them to consider leaving the car
> > > | in the driveway, a good kick in the wallet is doing the trick.
> > > |
> > > I've been saying round work for the last month or so that the roads were
> > > quieter on my commute.
>
> > > Ah well, 'bout time
>
> > > pOB
>
> > There are visibly more cyclists on my commute now. The new people
> > don't say hello or smile yet, but I'm sure they will.
> > Sadly though, I have noticed drivers getting a bit more aggressive
> > towards cyclists. Not sure if it is because there are more of us to
> > annoy them or they resent our lack of need to buy petrol more. Maybe
> > I'm just going through a bad patch and just happen to have a few more
> > cars cutting it close and pulling out in front.
>
> Drivers in Central London (West) surprised and impressed me over the
> past 8 months with their consideration to cyclists.

The one who headbutted me didn't, but on the whole I dont have a
problem with car drivers. Bus drivers, on the other hand...

 

[Mark]

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 07:54:19 +0100, Colin McKenzie
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dervin wrote:
>> How easy is it? I only own a road bike so I could only buy what I could
>> comfortably fit in a bag. What kind of bike do you ride to go shopping?
>
>Depends on a lot of factors. For a serious monthly shop, you probably
>need a trailer - but you can wheel that into the shop instead of a
>trolley. A couple of times I've wheeled my bike into a supermarket
>because there was nowhere to lock it outside, and no-one stopped me.
>
>Rucksacks and courier bags work fine if you aren't going far. For me
>the best compromise is a strong rack and panniers - if I'm not buying
>much I leave one pannier off.

We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
do live in a large household.

>Shopping by bike encourages you to shop locally and more often, both
>of which are generally Good Things.

Agreed. If we've forgotten anything, I nip to the closer shops on the
bike.


--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Mark]

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 20:14:55 +0100, Danny Colyer
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 21/06/2008 17:07, John Kane wrote:
>>> So it seems that while neither improving physical fitness nor concern
>>> for environmental matters has prompted them to consider leaving the car
>>> in the driveway, a good kick in the wallet is doing the trick.
>>
>> I have not had that happen here in Canada ...
>
>Yebbut from what I've read North Americans are still only paying about
>half of what British motorists pay for petrol, so even with less
>efficient cars the kick in the wallet isn't quite so hard.

In absolute terms they are paying a lot less but they have suffered a
larger percentage increase.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Peter Clinch]

Mark wrote:

> We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
> do live in a large household.

With a decent trailer you can get quite a lot on board, but not as much
as you can get in a large car.

OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
get you some exercise.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Mark]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:25:57 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark wrote:
>
>> We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
>> do live in a large household.
>
>With a decent trailer you can get quite a lot on board, but not as much
>as you can get in a large car.
>
>OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
>more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
>get you some exercise.

If you have time.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[bugbear]

Peter Clinch wrote:
> Mark wrote:
>
>> We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
>> do live in a large household.
>
> With a decent trailer you can get quite a lot on board, but not as much
> as you can get in a large car.
>
> OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
> more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
> get you some exercise.

Yes; not so much adding a chopping trip as
saving a trip to the gym.

BugBear

 

[David Hansen]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:59:35 +0100 someone who may be Mark
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
>do live in a large household.

Mike Small, the main man behind the Fife Diet,
<http://fifediet.wordpress.com/about/> has a box of vegetables
delivered every week which provides most of the food needed by a
family of four. They eat a meat minimised diet, meat and extra
vegetables coming from small suppliers and the farmers market. A
larger family could have more boxes delivered.

Although promoted as the Fife Diet it is mildly amusing that the veg
box (actually veg nets) supplier is based outwith Fife, though not
very far outwith Fife.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

 

[Chris Malcolm]

Mark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:25:57 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>>Mark wrote:
>>
>>> We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
>>> do live in a large household.
>>
>>With a decent trailer you can get quite a lot on board, but not as much
>>as you can get in a large car.
>>
>>OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
>>more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
>>get you some exercise.

> If you have time.

The critical question is whether the time you save by using a car
rather than a bicycle is enough to pay for the cost of using the car
rather than a bike. That cost has to include the cost of extra time
exercising to make up for the loss of exercise to the car driver, or
if you like the cost of the lost health and fitness.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

 

[Roger Burton West]

Chris Malcolm wrote:

>The critical question is whether the time you save by using a car
>rather than a bicycle is enough to pay for the cost of using the car
>rather than a bike.

Or indeed exists at all. If the shop is only a short way away, the
driving and parking may well take significantly longer than the riding
(especially if you have car-free cycling routes available). It certainly
does here in Newham.

R

--
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of
the human race.
-- H. G. Wells

 

[Peter Clinch]

Mark wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:25:57 +0100, Peter Clinch
> <[email protected]> wrote:

>> OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
>> more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
>> get you some exercise.
>
> If you have time.

That's always the assumption with cars, that they save time.

There's been more than one occasion where I've decided to "save time" by
taking the car for some reason, and saved a few minutes at most,
sometimes if it's been the wrong time of day there's a fair chance I've
been behind.

And a general point of time management is that you've actually got more
time than you think. Can you really not spend an extra hour or whatever
from your life during a week, an hour where you can relax and/or
exercise and according to circumstances either share with the family or
take some time to yourself.

In other words, try it before you assume it can't be done, and you may
be pleasantly surprised.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Mark]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 19:44:27 +0000 (UTC), Roger Burton West
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Chris Malcolm wrote:
>
>>The critical question is whether the time you save by using a car
>>rather than a bicycle is enough to pay for the cost of using the car
>>rather than a bike.
>
>Or indeed exists at all. If the shop is only a short way away, the
>driving and parking may well take significantly longer than the riding
>(especially if you have car-free cycling routes available). It certainly
>does here in Newham.

In our case the supermarket is not very far away, but the route is
very hilly and definitly not bicycle friendly.

I can't imagine how we could find time to do two more shops in a week,
unless it means going at midnight. I can't imagine facing the roads
full of drunks and taxi drivers that would exist then.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Mark]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:48:39 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 14:25:57 +0100, Peter Clinch
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> OTOH, it's not generally the end of the world to do a shop twice (or
>>> more) a week, especially if it doesn't cost you anything and helps to
>>> get you some exercise.
>>
>> If you have time.
>
>That's always the assumption with cars, that they save time.
>
>There's been more than one occasion where I've decided to "save time" by
>taking the car for some reason, and saved a few minutes at most,
>sometimes if it's been the wrong time of day there's a fair chance I've
>been behind.

I don't remember ever using the car if the time savings were marginal.
Most of my journeys are either local[1] (in which case I normally walk
or cycle) or are longer[2] (in which case the car is really the main
option).

>And a general point of time management is that you've actually got more
>time than you think. Can you really not spend an extra hour or whatever
>from your life during a week, an hour where you can relax and/or
>exercise and according to circumstances either share with the family or
>take some time to yourself.

LOL! I really don't have much spare time - certainly not two hours
for an extra trip to the supermarket. If I do I can find something
much better to do. ;-)

>In other words, try it before you assume it can't be done, and you may
>be pleasantly surprised.
>
>Pete.

[1] 0-3 miles
[2] 20+ miles
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[Mark]

On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 16:58:03 +0100, David Hansen
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 24 Jun 2008 13:59:35 +0100 someone who may be Mark
><[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>We struggle to get our weekly food shopping in a large car! However I
>>do live in a large household.
>
>Mike Small, the main man behind the Fife Diet,
><http://fifediet.wordpress.com/about/> has a box of vegetables
>delivered every week which provides most of the food needed by a
>family of four. They eat a meat minimised diet, meat and extra
>vegetables coming from small suppliers and the farmers market. A
>larger family could have more boxes delivered.
>
>Although promoted as the Fife Diet it is mildly amusing that the veg
>box (actually veg nets) supplier is based outwith Fife, though not
>very far outwith Fife.

Actually an organic vegetable box delivery was something we were
thinking about doing. There are farmers markets around here, but the
only ones I know are open only during working hours.

I don't think a "meat minimized" diet would go down well in my house
though!

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.
See http://improve-usenet.org

 

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 09:10:16 +0100 someone who may be Mark
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>In our case the supermarket is not very far away, but the route is
>very hilly and definitly not bicycle friendly.

I saw a television programme less than a week ago where some experts
were looking at the shopping bill of a "typical" family who did most
of their shopping in a typical UK style supermarket. All part of the
angst about food prices.

They switched the family to meat and veg from a butcher and
greengrocer (cheaper). They switched many other things to Lidl or
Aldi. They also fetched many things out of the house bins and made
meals with them. All in all they easily reduced the cost of shopping
by ISTR £700 a year, enough the woman claimed to keep her in shoes
for a year. They will also reduce packaging dramatically.

None of this means that the family have to wear hair shirts and
spend all day cooking, the usual sort of claims from those who
dismiss this sort of thing.



--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54