Interesting eBay auction



CloseSupport [email protected] opined the following...
> why not just visit www.wiggle.co.uk i just completed a dura ace gropset f=

or
> under =A3300 so why pay =A3310 for a lesser groupset ?


You really need to do something about the way you post. Top-posting is=20
frowned upon. Posting a general response to the original article at the=20
end of a sub-thread which (as is often the case) has no longer any=20
resemblence to the original topic is just daft.

Out of interest (Seeing as you've now brought it up!), what exactly=20
constituted your Dura-ace groupset?

To be worthy of comparison it needs to include:

STI shifters
Chainset
Front mech
Rear mech
Brakes

It would also be good if it included:

Bottom bracket
Chain.

Without checking, I'd guess that the first two items would clear =A3300.

Jon
 
"Mark Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> D
> > Ask the Millionaire audience
> >
> > Do helmets save cyclists lives ?

>
> They have and they do. Just not many.
>
> > Should helmets be made compulsory for children?

>
> Oh come on - at least think a bit. This question is effectively
> a value judgement relating to the worth of life and/or wellbeing
> Vs nanny state and/or burden on healthcare. It has no right or
> wrong answer.



If I may remind you Mark, your intervention was in response to the
following claim by one of this NewsGroups seemingly more prominent
intellectuals and political theorists....


"Jon Senior" <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<quote>

Assuming that IQ actually means a thing anyway. People have different
ways of approaching problems. In purely democratic terms however, an
ever increasing number of people who share the same view might imply
that they were on to something.

</quote>

So according to the likes of Senior here, the likes of Guy
the Gorilla are clearly wasting their time trying to force their
views onto a totally impervious majority. Basically they should simply
STFU and do all their power to persuade others to fit cycling helmets
on their kiddie-winkies, just like any sensible parent would do.

And you see Mark, unlike with the audience in WWTBA Millionaire,
the voters don't in fact go to the polls every four years or so so as
to decide on whether Paris really is the capital of France or not, or
the name of Britney Spears latest single.

They're mainly deciding on questions with no obvious right or wrong
answer. Whereas if you want to know the name of Britney Spears
latest single, you don't need to ask the audience on Millionaire,
you simply ask at any record shop. What could be simpler?

With me so far Mark ?

Which is why WWTBA Millionaire, of which you were so proud, was such a
totally stupid analogy for anyone to choose in the first place.


>
> > Because the audience on Millionaire can't be guarenteed to
> > get the answer right to everything their views are worthless.

>
> Bit like Einstein's then.



No Mark I think you'll find that the problem with someone like
Einstein is that relatively few people are capable of satisfying
themselves as to whether Einsein was correct or not in any one,
never mind every, particular.

So most people have to take someone else's word for it, who we
can call Mr X. as to whether Einsein was broadly correct in any
particular hypothesis. So then its not only Einstein's own reputation
which is solely in question here, but then it also becomes that of Mr
X, who we have elected to interpret Einsein on our behalf.

But there again IIRR, Einstein was pretty weak on baseball, the
music of Tommy Dorsey, Astrology, and Chinese cooking to name
but a few. So let's just hope every last one of those equations
of his are all spot on - according to Mr X at least.

Whereas in reality of course the reason why particular claims in the
General Theory of Relativity may be correct or not, is not because the
General Theory of Relativity was formulated by Einstein, or because
the consensus of physicists say that Einstein is correct, but simply
because The General Theory produced predictions which corresponded
with actual physical data - specifically in respect of the solar
eclipse of 1919 and the bending of light rays. Because that's the
only real criterion of truth or falsity. No matter how many people
may choose to agree or disagree.

Which is where we came in, I believe.

>
> Goodbye.



Yes Mark, I can easily see why you'd prefer to just slip away.

Just like the resident intellectual cum Scourge-of-Top-Posters-Net-Nanny
did, when asked to provide any actual proof of Bill Gates's poor
coding technique, to support his claims.




Curious
 
> If I may remind you Mark, your intervention was in response to the
> following claim [...]
> Assuming that IQ actually means a thing anyway. People have different
> ways of approaching problems. In purely democratic terms however, an
> ever increasing number of people who share the same view might imply
> that they were on to something.


Yeah.

> <snippity>


Whilst I agree with much of that, you're using the 3rd Way to Win a Debate.
 
"Mark Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > If I may remind you Mark, your intervention was in response to the
> > following claim [...]
> > Assuming that IQ actually means a thing anyway. People have different
> > ways of approaching problems. In purely democratic terms however, an
> > ever increasing number of people who share the same view might imply
> > that they were on to something.

>
> Yeah.
>
> > <snippity>

>
> Whilst I agree with much of that, you're using the 3rd Way to
> Win a Debate.


What debate ?

At the outset I stated that the number of people who believe
something, has no bearing whatsoever on its truth or falsity.

At the conclusion I stated that the number of people who believe
something, has no bearing whatsoever on its truth or falsity.

Basically anyone who tried to argue the contrary would be on a
hiding to nothing.

3rd way, or no 3rd way. Whatever that's supposed to mean.


Curious
 
> What debate ?
>
> At the outset I stated that the number of people who believe
> something, has no bearing whatsoever on its truth or falsity.
>
> At the conclusion I stated that the number of people who believe
> something, has no bearing whatsoever on its truth or falsity.
>
> Basically anyone who tried to argue the contrary would be on a
> hiding to nothing.


Quite. - no one has said anything contrary to that at all.
 
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:07:04 +0100, "Dr Curious"
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
....
>But there again IIRR, Einstein was pretty weak on baseball, the
>music of Tommy Dorsey, Astrology, and Chinese cooking to name
>but a few. So let's just hope every last one of those equations
>of his are all spot on - according to Mr X at least.


'IIRR'?


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
 
On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 08:04:36 +0100, Jon Senior wrote:

> Gawnsoft [email protected] opined the
> following...
>> 'IIRR'?

>
> If I Recall Rongly?
> If I Recall Religiously?
> Insubordinate Insurgents Resent Rights?
>
> Jon


Remember Right(ly)?
--
Michael MacClancy
Random putdown - "He has Van Gogh's ear for music." - Billy Wilder
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk
www.macclancy.co.uk
 
"Gawnsoft" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:07:04 +0100, "Dr Curious"
> <[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
> ...
> >But there again IIRR, Einstein was pretty weak on baseball, the
> >music of Tommy Dorsey, Astrology, and Chinese cooking to name
> >but a few. So let's just hope every last one of those equations
> >of his are all spot on - according to Mr X at least.

>
> 'IIRR'?



IIRR, none of these topics merited separate chapters in Clarke's
biography of Einstein.

Do you wish to disagree?


Curious






>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Euan
> Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
> Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
> Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)

http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
 
Michael MacClancy [email protected] opined the following...
> Remember Right(ly)?


Ah... <light dawns>. I did try and think of a sensible one first but was
"lost for words".

Jon
 
Dr Curious [email protected] opined the following...
>
> "Jon Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Gawnsoft [email protected] opined the
> > following...
> > > 'IIRR'?

> >
> > If I Recall Rongly?
> > If I Recall Religiously?
> > Insubordinate Insurgents Resent Rights?
> >
> > Jon

>
>
>
> (Usenet) acronym list -
>
> http://www.ariplex.com/tina/tbofhdic.htm
>
> see esp WOM


Michael managed to supplant my knowledge. I'd assumed (rongly) that it
was a typo.

WRT WOM: I remember being sent a copy of the datasheet recently. I was
impressed by the way it looked just like the IC datasheets I was used to
reading, and that it wasn't until you read it properly that the content
became obvious. A similar one was the report into the dangers of
dihydrogen monoxide.

Jon
 
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:48 +0100, "Dr Curious"
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):

>
>"Jon Senior" <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Assuming that IQ actually means a thing anyway. People have different
>> ways of approaching problems. In purely democratic terms however, an
>> ever increasing number of people who share the same view might imply
>> that they were on to something.

>
>What a foolish thing to say.
>
>What, such as that the world was flat up until the 15th century you
>mean?


The curvature of the Earth was established well before the 15th
century.

It was accurately measured in the 3rd century B.C., in fact.
(Erastosthenes, in widely-spaced bits of Egypt)


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
 
"Gawnsoft" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 10:12:48 +0100, "Dr Curious"
> <[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
>
> >
> >"Jon Senior" <jon@restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk.remove> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >> Assuming that IQ actually means a thing anyway. People have different
> >> ways of approaching problems. In purely democratic terms however, an
> >> ever increasing number of people who share the same view might imply
> >> that they were on to something.

> >
> >What a foolish thing to say.
> >
> >What, such as that the world was flat up until the 15th century you
> >mean?

>
> The curvature of the Earth was established well before the 15th
> century.
>
> It was accurately measured in the 3rd century B.C., in fact.
> (Erastosthenes, in widely-spaced bits of Egypt)




Nobody disputes any of that. Pythagoras hypothesised a Spherical
Earth and spherical Planets in the 5th c B.C, and the Ptolomeic
system following on from Aristotle was based on a spherical Earth.
The point is that the popular belief - as far as is known - was
overwhelmingly of a Flat Earth which owed much to Early and Medievel
Christian teachings by the likes of Lactanius, Cyril, and Augustine.
Millions of Christian faithful cannot have been wrong in other words.



Curious


>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Euan
> Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
> Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
> Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk)

http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
 
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:09:19 +0100, "Dr Curious"
<[email protected]> wrote (more or less):

>> >What a foolish thing to say.
>> >
>> >What, such as that the world was flat up until the 15th century you
>> >mean?

>>
>> The curvature of the Earth was established well before the 15th
>> century.
>>
>> It was accurately measured in the 3rd century B.C., in fact.
>> (Erastosthenes, in widely-spaced bits of Egypt)

>
>
>
>Nobody disputes any of that. Pythagoras hypothesised a Spherical
>Earth and spherical Planets in the 5th c B.C, and the Ptolomeic
>system following on from Aristotle was based on a spherical Earth.
>The point is that the popular belief - as far as is known - was
>overwhelmingly of a Flat Earth which owed much to Early and Medievel
>Christian teachings by the likes of Lactanius, Cyril, and Augustine.
>Millions of Christian faithful cannot have been wrong in other words.


You've now gone on to a different argument. Not the foolishness of
saying it, but the prevalence of such foolishness.


--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk
 
"Gawnsoft" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 09:09:19 +0100, "Dr Curious"
> <[email protected]> wrote (more or less):
>
> >> >What a foolish thing to say.
> >> >
> >> >What, such as that the world was flat up until the 15th century you
> >> >mean?
> >>
> >> The curvature of the Earth was established well before the 15th
> >> century.
> >>
> >> It was accurately measured in the 3rd century B.C., in fact.
> >> (Erastosthenes, in widely-spaced bits of Egypt)

> >
> >
> >
> >Nobody disputes any of that. Pythagoras hypothesised a Spherical
> >Earth and spherical Planets in the 5th c B.C, and the Ptolomeic
> >system following on from Aristotle was based on a spherical Earth.
> >The point is that the popular belief - as far as is known - was
> >overwhelmingly of a Flat Earth which owed much to Early and Medievel
> >Christian teachings by the likes of Lactanius, Cyril, and Augustine.
> >Millions of Christian faithful cannot have been wrong in other words.

>
> You've now gone on to a different argument. Not the foolishness of
> saying it, but the prevalence of such foolishness.



I haven't changed my argument at all.

My argument has always been thats it's foolish to assume that majority
opinion will always tend to be correct. Or at least any more correct
than that of an informed minority.

Also to assume that I was suggesting that majority of pre 14th c people
were foolish is rather a presumptuous and unhistorical assumption your
part.

Without any real notion of gravity, even if we assume a spherical planet,
as proposed by Ptolemy etc it would be natural to assume that people
and animals could only ever populate the topmost part. Equivalent to
what we now know as the North Pole. Basically if they ventured any
further South they'd simply fall off. Similarly the notion of an
inhabited antipodes was totaly alien. There was also was the problem
of why if the earth was spherical the seas didn't simply all drain
away from the Northern hemisphere - as we now know it, as well.

It was so as to try and explain some of these conundrums, in the absence
of any coherent account of gravitational attraction, that all these
alternative "flat earth" type hypotheses were suggested.


Curious



>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Euan