interesting result of a high carb diet

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by Tcomeau, Nov 3, 2003.



  1. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    >
    > TC

    How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt better
    on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems discussed. This is
    the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:

    "Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate
    diet that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms
    under control."

    In fact, research seems to indicate that PCOS is related to obesity: "Insulin resistance is a common
    feature of PCOS and is more marked in obese women, suggesting that PCOS and obesity have a
    synergistic effect on the magnitude of the insulin disorder." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/qu-
    ery.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14570747&dopt=Abstract

    It also seems that some PCOS symptoms can be resolved via what is simplya low-calorie diet:
    "Weight loss through a controlled low-calorie diet improves anthropometric indices in obese PCOS
    patients" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12923151-
    &dopt=Abstract

    "Weight loss and exercise, often difficult to maintain, can often return a woman to normal ovulatory
    cycles" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12596342&dop-
    t=Abstract

    I didn't see where the article that you posted mentioned Tanya's weight when she had PCOS related
    problems and when she did not. Did she loose weight when she changed to a new lower carbohydrate way
    of eating?

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  2. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > > http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    > >
    > > TC
    >
    > How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt
    > better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems discussed.
    > This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    >
    > "Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate diet
    > that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    > control."
    >

    Sheesh, can't anybody apply simple logic? On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were
    attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet made her
    condition worse.

    TC
     
  3. Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: interesting result of a high carb diet."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were ... we can see that a high-carb diet made
    >her condition worse.

    You guys are complete idiots because you *never* talk about Med-Carb diets which of course is the
    ideal diet.
    --
    John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

    The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of the biomedical model of natural health.
    Weighing in at 17 webpages, Nutrition (http://www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now the
    unofficial FAQ for sci.med.nutrition by default. :)
     
  4. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 10/29/2003 9:01 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    >> > http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    >> >
    >> > TC
    >>
    >>How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt
    >>better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems discussed.
    >>This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    >>
    >>"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate diet
    >>that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    >>control."
    >>
    >
    >
    > Sheesh, can't anybody apply simple logic? On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were
    > attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet made her
    > condition worse.

    Sorry, this was posted on a science newsgroup and I thought that an actual study would be
    appropriate. The literature which I read seems to indicate that that weight loss in general is
    beneficial to individuals with PCOS. I was unable to find any mention of low carb in the PCOS info
    on Medline. I also felt that the article left out some potentially important facts -- like did the
    person in the article loose weight when she changed her WOE? Does her family have a history of PCOS?

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  5. Mattlb

    Mattlb Guest

    John 'the Man' wrote:
    >
    > Once upon a time, our fellow tcomeau rambled on about "Re: interesting result of a high carb
    > diet." Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
    >
    > >On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were ... we can see that a high-carb diet made
    > >her condition worse.
    >
    > You guys are complete idiots because you *never* talk about Med-Carb diets which of course is the
    > ideal diet.

    Is it your memory or comprehension that lets you down? Tcomeau frequently recommends the Zone, which
    is a medium carb diet. Or does "Med" stand for medical?

    MattLB
     
  6. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 10/29/2003 9:01 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > > jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > >>On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > >> > http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    > >> >
    > >> > TC
    > >>
    > >>How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt
    > >>better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems discussed.
    > >>This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    > >>
    > >>"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate
    > >>diet that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    > >>control."
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > > Sheesh, can't anybody apply simple logic? On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were
    > > attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet made her
    > > condition worse.
    >
    > Sorry, this was posted on a science newsgroup and I thought that an actual study would be
    > appropriate. The literature which I read seems to indicate that that weight loss in general is
    > beneficial to individuals with PCOS. I was unable to find any mention of low carb in the PCOS
    > info on Medline. I also felt that the article left out some potentially important facts -- like
    > did the person in the article loose weight when she changed her WOE? Does her family have a
    > history of PCOS?

    You know some times, a good interesting article has implications in science. If only to acquaint
    some people with certain observations. The observations may not be verified in a formal study but it
    is still valid in many cases.

    TC
     
  7. Once upon a time, our fellow MattLB rambled on about "Re: interesting result of a high carb diet."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...

    >Is it your memory or comprehension that lets you down? Tcomeau frequently recommends the Zone,
    >which is a medium carb diet. Or does "Med" stand for medical?

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    the Zone?

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    So, is the Mediterranean Diet ... a medium carb diet. :)
    --
    John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!

    The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of the biomedical model of natural health.
    Weighing in at 17 webpages, Nutrition (http://www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now the
    unofficial FAQ for sci.med.nutrition by default. :)
     
  8. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 10/30/2003 1:18 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>On 10/29/2003 9:01 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    >>
    >>>jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    >>>>>
    >>>>>TC
    >>>>
    >>>>How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt
    >>>>better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems discussed.
    >>>>This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    >>>>
    >>>>"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate
    >>>>diet that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    >>>>control."
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Sheesh, can't anybody apply simple logic? On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were
    >>>attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet made her
    >>>condition worse.
    >>
    >>Sorry, this was posted on a science newsgroup and I thought that an actual study would be
    >>appropriate. The literature which I read seems to indicate that that weight loss in general is
    >>beneficial to individuals with PCOS. I was unable to find any mention of low carb in the PCOS
    >>info on Medline. I also felt that the article left out some potentially important facts -- like
    >>did the person in the article loose weight when she changed her WOE? Does her family have a
    >>history of PCOS?
    >
    >
    > You know some times, a good interesting article has implications in science. If only to acquaint
    > some people with certain observations. The observations may not be verified in a formal study but
    > it is still valid in many cases.

    I understand that, however, I do not necessarily agree with your conclusions. Why do you feel that
    PCOS is a result of a "high carb" diet? Just last week didn't you critism someone who posted the
    results of a study with eleven people in it? Now you are posting anedotal evidence about ONE person
    and jumping to conclusions based on one sentence in the article?

    --
    jmk in NC
     
  9. Tcomeau

    Tcomeau Guest

    jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 10/30/2003 1:18 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > > jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > >>On 10/29/2003 9:01 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>jmk <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>>news:<[email protected]>...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>On 10/29/2003 12:55 PM, tcomeau wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>>http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/living/7118357.htm
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>>TC
    > >>>>
    > >>>>How is that a result of high carb? The one person discussed in the article said that she felt
    > >>>>better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the PCOS problems
    > >>>>discussed. This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate
    > >>>>diet that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms
    > >>>>under control."
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>Sheesh, can't anybody apply simple logic? On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition
    > >>>were attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet
    > >>>made her condition worse.
    > >>
    > >>Sorry, this was posted on a science newsgroup and I thought that an actual study would be
    > >>appropriate. The literature which I read seems to indicate that that weight loss in general is
    > >>beneficial to individuals with PCOS. I was unable to find any mention of low carb in the PCOS
    > >>info on Medline. I also felt that the article left out some potentially important facts -- like
    > >>did the person in the article loose weight when she changed her WOE? Does her family have a
    > >>history of PCOS?
    > >
    > >
    > > You know some times, a good interesting article has implications in science. If only to acquaint
    > > some people with certain observations. The observations may not be verified in a formal study
    > > but it is still valid in many cases.
    >
    > I understand that, however, I do not necessarily agree with your conclusions. Why do you feel that
    > PCOS is a result of a "high carb" diet? Just last week didn't you critism someone who posted the
    > results of a study with eleven people in it? Now you are posting anedotal evidence about ONE
    > person and jumping to conclusions based on one sentence in the article?

    I've not said that her condition was a result of a high carb diet. I said that the condition was
    made worse by a high carb diet.

    quote:

    "On the low-carb diet the effects of the condition were attenuated or minimized. Therefore logically
    speaking, we can see that a high-carb diet made her condition worse."

    TC
     
  10. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    In article <[email protected]>, jmk <[email protected]> writes:

    >How is that a result of high carb?

    It isn't, that was an overstatement, but it's certainly exacerbated by a high glycemic load diet. I
    developed PCOS in middle age, with no prior history of it, while on a high carb, low fat diet.

    It isn't the strict result of high carb because there's an enormous genetic component to it, as
    well, which high carbing helps bring to fruition. My paternal family is full of type ll diabetics,
    early age of onset, for example.

    The one person discussed in the
    >article said that she felt better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the
    >PCOS problems discussed. This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:

    No, she said _low_ carb, which is how I read it originally, and what you've quoted below. In fact,
    the most effective treatment for PCOS usually is low carbing, often along with metformin.

    >
    >"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate diet
    >that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    >control."

    LOW carb, not high. Insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia cause PCOS.

    >
    >In fact, research seems to indicate that PCOS is related to obesity: "Insulin resistance is a
    >common feature of PCOS and is more marked in obese women, suggesting that PCOS and obesity have a
    >synergistic effect on the magnitude of the insulin disorder."

    Obesity is a consequence of hyperinsulinemia, the cause of IR. Insulin signals cells to store fat.
    PCOS involves excess insulin secretion and poor utilization.

    >
    >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    _uids=14570747&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >It also seems that some PCOS symptoms can be resolved via what is simplya low-calorie diet: "Weight
    >loss through a controlled low-calorie diet improves anthropometric indices in obese PCOS patients"

    Lower calorie diets also require less insulin. Low carbing is the effective treatment of choice in
    all the best and newest research on PCOS. It's also the way many infertile PCOSers become fertile,
    often without the need for any further infertility treatments.

    Obese folks losing weight is always a good thing.

    >
    >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    _uids=12923151&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >"Weight loss and exercise, often difficult to maintain, can often return a woman to normal
    >ovulatory cycles"

    Right. And exercise burns off glucose, and sensitizes the muscles to insulin. Anything that reduces
    circulating insulin levels improves PCOS, as a rule.

    >
    >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    _uids=12596342&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >I didn't see where the article that you posted mentioned Tanya's weight when she had PCOS related
    >problems and when she did not. Did she loose weight when she changed to a new lower carbohydrate
    >way of eating?
    >

    I was very slim when I developed PCOS. Every case is different. I had no acne, either, but was
    developing male pattern hair loss, labile hypertension, and had constant cysts. Researching the
    cause of the cysts is what led me to adopt low carbing. The cysts went away, along with my labile
    hypertension, and my CVD risk was cut in half.

    Susan
     
  11. Jmk

    Jmk Guest

    On 10/29/2003 3:56 PM, Susan wrote:
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    >
    > In article <[email protected]>, jmk <[email protected]> writes:
    >
    >
    >>How is that a result of high carb?
    >
    >
    > It isn't, that was an overstatement, but it's certainly exacerbated by a high glycemic load diet.
    > I developed PCOS in middle age, with no prior history of it, while on a high carb, low fat diet.
    >
    > It isn't the strict result of high carb because there's an enormous genetic component to it, as
    > well, which high carbing helps bring to fruition. My paternal family is full of type ll diabetics,
    > early age of onset, for example.
    >
    >
    >
    > The one person discussed in the
    >
    >>article said that she felt better on a high carb diet. Simple weight loss can resolve a lot of the
    >>PCOS problems discussed. This is the only place in the article that carbohytradte was mentioned:
    >
    >
    > No, she said _low_ carb, which is how I read it originally

    sorry, i slipped :-(

    , and what you've
    > quoted below. In fact, the most effective treatment for PCOS usually is low carbing, often along
    > with metformin.

    I was unable to find that in the literature. Could you please point me to some articles?

    >
    >
    >>"Through trial and error, she found that she felt better when she followed a low-carbohydrate diet
    >>that included whole grains. That, along with vitamins and exercise, keep her symptoms under
    >>control."
    >
    >
    > LOW carb, not high. Insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia cause PCOS.
    >
    >
    >>In fact, research seems to indicate that PCOS is related to obesity: "Insulin resistance is a
    >>common feature of PCOS and is more marked in obese women, suggesting that PCOS and obesity have a
    >>synergistic effect on the magnitude of the insulin disorder."
    >
    >
    > Obesity is a consequence of hyperinsulinemia, the cause of IR. Insulin signals cells to store fat.
    > PCOS involves excess insulin secretion and poor utilization.
    >
    >
    >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    >
    > _uids=14570747&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >>It also seems that some PCOS symptoms can be resolved via what is simplya low-calorie diet:
    >>"Weight loss through a controlled low-calorie diet improves anthropometric indices in obese PCOS
    >>patients"
    >
    >
    > Lower calorie diets also require less insulin. Low carbing is the effective treatment of choice in
    > all the best and newest research on PCOS. It's also the way many infertile PCOSers become fertile,
    > often without the need for any further infertility treatments.

    Yes, I saw the part about fertility but I was unable to find any mention of low carb in the
    literature that I searched.

    >
    > Obese folks losing weight is always a good thing.

    True.

    >
    >
    >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    >
    > _uids=12923151&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >>"Weight loss and exercise, often difficult to maintain, can often return a woman to normal
    >>ovulatory cycles"
    >
    >
    > Right. And exercise burns off glucose, and sensitizes the muscles to insulin. Anything that
    > reduces circulating insulin levels improves PCOS, as a rule.
    >
    >
    >>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list
    >
    > _uids=12596342&dopt=Abstract
    >
    >>I didn't see where the article that you posted mentioned Tanya's weight when she had PCOS related
    >>problems and when she did not. Did she loose weight when she changed to a new lower carbohydrate
    >>way of eating?
    >>
    >
    >
    > I was very slim when I developed PCOS. Every case is different. I had no acne, either, but was
    > developing male pattern hair loss, labile hypertension, and had constant cysts. Researching the
    > cause of the cysts is what led me to adopt low carbing. The cysts went away, along with my labile
    > hypertension, and my CVD risk was cut in half.

    I'm glad that you were able to get this under control. Scary stuff.

    >
    > Susan

    --
    jmk in NC
     
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