intermittent training - where do I go from here?

[Triathlete]

Paul wrote:
> Triathlete - this has been a real education for me and I sincerely
> appreciate it. I just pruchased two tri books so I can continue my
> education.
>
> It's been very helpful and Many thanks!

My pleasure, please keep us posted on your progress.
Which books did you purchase?

 

[Paul]

"Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UE_nh.560355$5R2.358782@pd7urf3no...
> Paul wrote:
>> Triathlete - this has been a real education for me and I sincerely
>> appreciate it. I just pruchased two tri books so I can continue my
>> education.
>>
>> It's been very helpful and Many thanks!
>
> My pleasure, please keep us posted on your progress.
> Which books did you purchase?

1- The 12-Week Triathlete: Train for a Triathlon in Just Three Months by Ton
Holland
2- Triathlon Training in Four Hours a Week by Eric Harr

Both seem good and cover all the necessary things.

I was particularly interested in integrating a strength program in my
schedule. I didn't know when to do strength and core - if I do it the day
before I swim, will it interfere with my swim performance, should I not do
legs exercises the day after or before my bog run,...questions like those
kept me from doing much any strengthening. But these books integrate them
into the schedule so it's helpful that way as well.

 

[Paul]

"Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:UE_nh.560355$5R2.358782@pd7urf3no...
> Paul wrote:
>> Triathlete - this has been a real education for me and I sincerely
>> appreciate it. I just pruchased two tri books so I can continue my
>> education.
>>
>> It's been very helpful and Many thanks!
>
> My pleasure, please keep us posted on your progress.
> Which books did you purchase?

I also have had Tudor Bompa's Perdiodixation Training For Sports for several
years which is a terrific book.

 

[Triathlete]

Paul wrote:
> "Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:UE_nh.560355$5R2.358782@pd7urf3no...
>> Paul wrote:
>>> Triathlete - this has been a real education for me and I sincerely
>>> appreciate it. I just pruchased two tri books so I can continue my
>>> education.
>>>
>>> It's been very helpful and Many thanks!
>> My pleasure, please keep us posted on your progress.
>> Which books did you purchase?
>
> 1- The 12-Week Triathlete: Train for a Triathlon in Just Three Months by Ton
> Holland
> 2- Triathlon Training in Four Hours a Week by Eric Harr

I haven't read these books or heard of them. If you like, please post
how the books have helped your training or if you found them to be
helpful in other ways.

> Both seem good and cover all the necessary things.
>
> I was particularly interested in integrating a strength program in my
> schedule. I didn't know when to do strength and core - if I do it the day
> before I swim, will it interfere with my swim performance, should I not do
> legs exercises the day after or before my bog run,...questions like those
> kept me from doing much any strengthening. But these books integrate them
> into the schedule so it's helpful that way as well.

My first tri coach told us to do core strength after the swim, on the
side of the pool.

I like this method and find my best stretching comes after a swim, and I
have kept to this method. I do a little bit of yoga, a little bit of
core pilates. I need to add weights to my routine, I haven't started
back at the gym yet. I only started my base in November.

I am wondering the same as you. How do I schedule 3 runs, 3 swims, 3
bikes 2 weights and 2-3 yoga a week and keep sane and fresh and have a
day off?

During the early base (Jan-mid Feb) I will do a modified gordo week:

1 cycle:

week 1 - 2 runs, 3 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights 1 recovery
run 30 minutes. total time: wow.. 15-17 hours. I had no idea. I have
never added up my weekly hours before. I may switch yoga for weights and
alternate each week, but still do core at the pool, or after a run or bike.

week 2 - 3 runs, 2 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga 2 weights, recovery run
30 minutes. total time: 14hrs 45min

week 3 - 2 runs, 2 swims, 3 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights, 1 recovery
workout 30 minutes. total time: 14.5

week 4 - 50% and 2 really light yoga, no weights, add more stretching.

As I am just getting back into training, I will add an extra swim to all
weeks (maybe not week 1), and work on adding more runs and bikes in
about 1 more month.

Of course, at this time of year, if there is a nice bike day outside I
will switch any workout for a good bike ride as this is my current
limiter in an ironman. If it is raining hard or blasting wind, I will
run outside instead of bike.

Gordo recommends doing the first and third week as bike/swim weeks, and
the 2 week as a run week, with a race or test at the end of recovery week.

I read a good post on Gordo's website that says instead of scheduling
all of the 3, 3, 3, bike swim runs, maybe have a lower limit of workouts
say a 2/2/2 and then have a bonus round set aside of 1/1/1 to total 3
workouts in each sport, so at the end of the week you can feel proud
that you did bonus rounds rather then feel like you slacked for *only*
doing 2/3/2. No one should feel badly for missing 1 or 2 hours of
workouts a week when you have 6-16 hours of workouts each week, and yet
it is very easy to do.

Lisa Bentley had a good idea that I may try this year for bike rides on
the trainer. I forget exactly how it goes, but if you are interested I
will look up the article, it went something like: spin for half an hour,
then do 2 sets of push ups and sit ups, get back on bike and do the bike
and core 2-3 more times.

Most importantly: work on quality, not on junk mileage. If you are tired
sleep!

 

[Paul]

> I haven't read these books or heard of them. If you like, please post how
> the books have helped your training or if you found them to be helpful in
> other ways.

I will. I have already found them helpful in motivation and differing
strength workouts. Though, having gone through some phys. therapy last
year, I have a pretty good core base already and know what to do for the
core and stretching.

> My first tri coach told us to do core strength after the swim, on the side
> of the pool.

I use a pad, swedish ball and the little half-ball thingy that you stand on
while exercising for balance to do my core work so I need to be in a work
out area. My gym has a pool so that works but it would be convenient to do
both without having to change clothes.

> I am wondering the same as you. How do I schedule 3 runs, 3 swims, 3 bikes
> 2 weights and 2-3 yoga a week and keep sane and fresh and have a day off?

Good question.

> During the early base (Jan-mid Feb) I will do a modified gordo week:
>
> 1 cycle:
>
> week 1 - 2 runs, 3 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights 1 recovery run
> 30 minutes. total time: wow.. 15-17 hours. I had no idea. I have never
> added up my weekly hours before. I may switch yoga for weights and
> alternate each week, but still do core at the pool, or after a run or
> bike.
>
> week 2 - 3 runs, 2 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga 2 weights, recovery run
> 30 minutes. total time: 14hrs 45min
>
> week 3 - 2 runs, 2 swims, 3 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights, 1 recovery
> workout 30 minutes. total time: 14.5
>
> week 4 - 50% and 2 really light yoga, no weights, add more stretching.
>
> As I am just getting back into training, I will add an extra swim to all
> weeks (maybe not week 1), and work on adding more runs and bikes in about
> 1 more month.
>
> Of course, at this time of year, if there is a nice bike day outside I
> will switch any workout for a good bike ride as this is my current limiter
> in an ironman. If it is raining hard or blasting wind, I will run outside
> instead of bike.

Good job. I need to allow myself the flexibility to switch things around
and not feel that I am cheating myself somehow.

> Gordo recommends doing the first and third week as bike/swim weeks, and
> the 2 week as a run week, with a race or test at the end of recovery week.
>
> I read a good post on Gordo's website that says instead of scheduling all
> of the 3, 3, 3, bike swim runs, maybe have a lower limit of workouts say a
> 2/2/2 and then have a bonus round set aside of 1/1/1 to total 3 workouts
> in each sport, so at the end of the week you can feel proud that you did
> bonus rounds rather then feel like you slacked for *only* doing 2/3/2. No
> one should feel badly for missing 1 or 2 hours of workouts a week when you
> have 6-16 hours of workouts each week, and yet it is very easy to do.

After your mentioning him the other day, I read some of his articles - good
stuff and very helpful! It will be even more helpful after my first season.

> Lisa Bentley had a good idea that I may try this year for bike rides on
> the trainer. I forget exactly how it goes, but if you are interested I
> will look up the article, it went something like: spin for half an hour,
> then do 2 sets of push ups and sit ups, get back on bike and do the bike
> and core 2-3 more times.
>
> Most importantly: work on quality, not on junk mileage. If you are tired
> sleep!

I did a 30 minute run yesterday and concentrated on keeping my HR in a
comfortable zone. I was able to keep it under 150 the entire time and felt
good afterwards. There was no joint pain - I like this recovery run idea.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Triathlete]

Paul wrote:

> I will. I have already found them helpful in motivation and differing
> strength workouts. Though, having gone through some phys. therapy last
> year, I have a pretty good core base already and know what to do for the
> core and stretching.

> I use a pad, swedish ball and the little half-ball thingy that you stand on
> while exercising for balance to do my core work so I need to be in a work
> out area. My gym has a pool so that works but it would be convenient to do
> both without having to change clothes.

I try to break up my core work outs so that I do a lot of core work each
day, but I don't need to spend a lot of time doing core work at the gym.

This means that my gym time can mostly be used for weights. I do the mat
work at the pool, the mat and ball work at home, and some mat and ball
work that I can't do at home as well as the stability half ball work at
the gym.

Do you have some favorites core workouts that you find helpful? I could
use some new ideas and some core tips.

I used to love to stretch, but now I can't remember many stretches.
I will have to cruise the net tonight looking for tricep stretches.


> Good job. I need to allow myself the flexibility to switch things around
> and not feel that I am cheating myself somehow.

Isn't it terrible that we can feel cheated so easily, when we work out
like madmen?


> After your mentioning him the other day, I read some of his articles - good
> stuff and very helpful! It will be even more helpful after my first season.

That's what I found. I stuck to other books until this year and now I am
ready for Gordo's work. He does have a good plan for beginners/novices,
and this is what I am working on, but I wasn't ready in some ways until
Oct last year to work with his material. I am going from half iron to
full ironman with his plan.


> I did a 30 minute run yesterday and concentrated on keeping my HR in a
> comfortable zone. I was able to keep it under 150 the entire time and felt
> good afterwards. There was no joint pain - I like this recovery run idea.
>
> Thanks for your help!

I am happy to hear that you have found my advice helpful.

Yesterday, I had a really good bike ride and an hour of core and hip
work aimed at attaining a better aero position (from Gordo's book). Then
I did my first weight workout of the season at the gym, and I woke up
feeling like someone kicked me in the back. I had tried several new row
techniques (cable row and on a few different machines).

I read your post before I left and it gave me more incentive to follow
through. I did my swim and recovery run tonight, and things are back to
normal.

After reading Mark Allens webpage and Gordo's I will be adding a few of
these half hour runs to my weekly routine as I now remember how good
they make me feel.

I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his
hr and effort.

http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp

 

[Paul]

> Do you have some favorites core workouts that you find helpful? I could
> use some new ideas and some core tips.

I do something like this:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/health/fitness/20060314-9999-lz1c14firefit.html

Lots of swedish ball work and elastic band stuff. I was amazed how much you
can work you abs with just band tension and your own body weight. Most of
it was given to me by the physical therapist and I can't find any pictures
to help illustrate.

> Isn't it terrible that we can feel cheated so easily, when we work out
> like madmen?

Yes!

> That's what I found. I stuck to other books until this year and now I am
> ready for Gordo's work. He does have a good plan for beginners/novices,
> and this is what I am working on, but I wasn't ready in some ways until
> Oct last year to work with his material. I am going from half iron to full
> ironman with his plan.

That's terrific!

> I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his hr
> and effort.
> http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp

From that article:
"... after nearly a year of doing mostly aerobic training, which by the way
was much more comfortable and less taxing than the anaerobic style that I
was used to, my pace at 155 beats/minute had improved to a blistering 5:20
mile...."

Holy cow! I realize he was in a different place thatn I am but it
illustrates the points you have made about HR base training. Thanks.

At what point in your base training do you start to add some speed work?
One coach told me for someone my age just starting, I should put in a year
or so of base training before starting speed work. I am leaning more that
way the more I learn about it.

 

[Paul]

> I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his hr
> and effort.
>
> http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp

Tri - I read that article again and that would mean I would have to train at
an HR of 138 - I can walk and get to that HR without ever running. Yet when
I ran slowly the other day I was able to keep it around 145 - 148.

Is this article recommending I stop running and go back to walking fast
until I can run and keep it under 138?

 

[Triathlete]

Paul wrote:
>> I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his hr
>> and effort.
>>
>> http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp
>
> Tri - I read that article again and that would mean I would have to train at
> an HR of 138 - I can walk and get to that HR without ever running. Yet when
> I ran slowly the other day I was able to keep it around 145 - 148.
>
> Is this article recommending I stop running and go back to walking fast
> until I can run and keep it under 138?

I don't know. I had to start over, but that was several years ago.

I noticed only yesterday that my hr is lower when I run, compared to
when I am doing other tasks or movements that I thought would be lower.

Have you noticed your hr increase or decrease dramatically based on how
much activity that you have done that week?

I will read up the method that Gordo uses for you. I think he says that
the rate in which your breathing changes, minus ten beats is a good
place to start, but I would have to go back to the book and check that
out for you and I ran out of time today. The book is a few years old,
but the blog is only a few months old. Gordo went to a Shamanic training
camp in Texas featuring Mark Allen in October, and he may have changed
his method of training heart rate. I thought about going to this camp
but participated in a race instead.

Back to hr, it does get better fairly quick. Swimming at a higher hr may
keep it from adapting to a lower hr profile as quickly as it could.

Your hr might also change depending on liquid in your body, if you had a
gel or sports drink first, if you have to pee, etc.

If you start running 1 min and walking 1 minute, you might see a great
change happen in your hr as it gets stronger at lower beats. The process
might not take as long as you think.

I am tempted to write Mark Allen or Gordo on this question. Unless you
want to take a shot at it?

 

[Paul]

"Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Wx4ph.595302$1T2.106975@pd7urf2no...
> Paul wrote:
>>> I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his
>>> hr and effort.
>>>
>>> http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp
>>
>> Tri - I read that article again and that would mean I would have to train
>> at an HR of 138 - I can walk and get to that HR without ever running.
>> Yet when I ran slowly the other day I was able to keep it around 145 -
>> 148.
>>
>> Is this article recommending I stop running and go back to walking fast
>> until I can run and keep it under 138?
>
> I don't know. I had to start over, but that was several years ago.
>
> I noticed only yesterday that my hr is lower when I run, compared to when
> I am doing other tasks or movements that I thought would be lower.
>
> Have you noticed your hr increase or decrease dramatically based on how
> much activity that you have done that week?
>
> I will read up the method that Gordo uses for you. I think he says that
> the rate in which your breathing changes, minus ten beats is a good place
> to start, but I would have to go back to the book and check that out for
> you and I ran out of time today. The book is a few years old, but the blog
> is only a few months old. Gordo went to a Shamanic training camp in Texas
> featuring Mark Allen in October, and he may have changed his method of
> training heart rate. I thought about going to this camp but participated
> in a race instead.
>
> Back to hr, it does get better fairly quick. Swimming at a higher hr may
> keep it from adapting to a lower hr profile as quickly as it could.
>
> Your hr might also change depending on liquid in your body, if you had a
> gel or sports drink first, if you have to pee, etc.
>
> If you start running 1 min and walking 1 minute, you might see a great
> change happen in your hr as it gets stronger at lower beats. The process
> might not take as long as you think.
>
> I am tempted to write Mark Allen or Gordo on this question. Unless you
> want to take a shot at it?

I just wrote a post on Mark Allen's forum - it's waiting for approval to be
posted. Here's what I said:
"I am trying to understand how to develop my first base in HR training.
Here's where I am:
- I am 42 year old male

- Have been swimming with a masters group for a little over a year

- My runs have worked up to a 10 mile run (3 weeks ago) which was a very
slow pace (11min) and an average HR of 165, but my runs have been
inconsistent which means I have run a few times on week then take a week off

- This will be my first year in triathlon I plan several sprints and maybe
an Olympic distance

My concern, after writing on a forum and reading several articles on HR base
training, is that my HR is too high for developing a good base. I was able
to run 3 days ago for a 1/2 hour keeping my HR under around 145-148. I felt
much better but was going really slow.

Some article I read say I that, in order to build a good base HR phase, I
need to keep my HR in the 135 range. In order to keep it that low, I would
have not do more than walk fast. If I break into a run at even a slow pace,
I'm in the 145+ range.

Since I did a 10-miler, I don't feel I need (maybe "want" is a more
appropriate word) to start over but I DO realize the value of developing a
strong HR base training pahse.

Where do I go from here regarding my runs (frequency, duration, HR
during,...)? The same question could be for my swims and bike rides as
well.

Many thanks!"

 

[Paul]

> I am tempted to write Mark Allen or Gordo on this question. Unless you
> want to take a shot at it?

Just saw this article and found it helpful addressing my issue:
http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460

 

[Ira Hart]

Paul wrote:
> Just saw this article and found it helpful addressing my issue:
> http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460
>
>

This is the same article that Tri referenced for you from markallen
online. It is also the same thing I mentioned a bunch of posts ago
about doing 180-age for aerobic threshold which is from Phil Maffetone.
Maffetone did a lot of the early work on HR monitors and the training
effect.

Mark Allen and Stu Mittleman both learned what they know from maffetone.
Stu Mittlemens book "slow burn" is excellent for describing HR
training and nutrition for the triathlete looking for long term health
AND race improvement.

 

[Paul]

"Ira Hart" <[email protected]> wrote in message
newsm8ph.124$y3.20@llnews...
> Paul wrote:
> > Just saw this article and found it helpful addressing my issue:
> > http://www.duathlon.com/articles/1460
> >
> >
>
> This is the same article that Tri referenced for you from markallen
> online. It is also the same thing I mentioned a bunch of posts ago about
> doing 180-age for aerobic threshold which is from Phil Maffetone.
> Maffetone did a lot of the early work on HR monitors and the training
> effect.
>
> Mark Allen and Stu Mittleman both learned what they know from maffetone.
> Stu Mittlemens book "slow burn" is excellent for describing HR training
> and nutrition for the triathlete looking for long term health AND race
> improvement.

My apologgies, Ira. It rang a bell when I saw it but I have read SO Much
about this in the last week. I forgot you posted it earlier.

 

[Dot]

Paul wrote:
>>I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his hr
>>and effort.
>>
>>http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp
>
>
> Tri - I read that article again and that would mean I would have to train at
> an HR of 138 - I can walk and get to that HR without ever running. Yet when
> I ran slowly the other day I was able to keep it around 145 - 148.
>
> Is this article recommending I stop running and go back to walking fast
> until I can run and keep it under 138?
>
>
I haven't read the detail of all the posts in the thread, but just a
thought from a mostly runner (have done 1 sprint tri and a couple trail
duathlons) since various forms of hr training come up periodically. Most
have you test for a max hr in some way - either directly by stress test,
sprint at end of 5k, hills, etc. or indirectly by approximating LT/VT by
where you start breathing a lot harder and dividing that by .9 (crude,
but may give a better estimate than some of the formulas). Maffetone
method, which is what Mark Allen used and some of the other articles are
about, uses a mostly-age based method with some minor mods. You might
want to compare training zones based on the different techniques.

For me (older female), my Maffetone number came out way low - below the
lower limit that some pgms said there's no aerobic benefit below. Some
people's Maf number overlap with more normal training zones. I was
inadvertently training at a lower effort than normal (close to Maf
number) last winter because of all the ice on trails, and I feel I lost
substantial conditioning and took 2-3 months to regain it, never mind
advancing. Being older, I think I may have lost a lot of strength for
the hilly trail runs that I do. Keep in mind I never intended to follow
the Maf method since he has you avoid strength training, running with
others, hills, etc. And that's what my winter training is. I couldn't
keep warm (in Alaska) at the hr Maf would have me using. I was never
willing to spend my winters (the only time I could run for a few years)
walking on a tm when I could be outdoors snowshoe running on hilly
trails. I think the really low hr zones are primarily for base training
and you still need to do race prep, so be sure to look at the entire
plan. I also recognize the hr's will differ for the different disciplines.

Triathlete suggested:
"I will read up the method that Gordo uses for you. I think he says that
the rate in which your breathing changes, minus ten beats is a good
place to start, but I would have to go back to the book and check "

If I'm interpreting this correctly, it sounds like somewhere around
VT/LT, but it might be lower (maybe where you have to start shortening
sentences in the talk test) - then subtract 10. My easy runs are
typically 15-25 bpm below where my breathing starts to get really hard.

Here's a table of efforts that I've used where the % of effort
corresponds to Karvonen calculations using heart rate reserve and
perceived exertion corresponds to my breathing.

Note: I'm not saying that any one method is better than another, but
look around and understand the various programs. Many seem to have the
easy effort runs near 70% max hr, maybe a tad below. "Conversational
effort" is usually a good guideline.

Dot

--
"If we reach all our goals, we are not setting them high enough."
- Matt Carpenter

 

[Dot]

Dot wrote:

>
> Here's a table of efforts that I've used where the % of effort
> corresponds to Karvonen calculations using heart rate reserve and
> perceived exertion corresponds to my breathing.
>
ooops, here it is
http://www.coachbenson.com/ebtcorr.pdf


--
"If we reach all our goals, we are not setting them high enough."
- Matt Carpenter

 

[Paul]

"Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dot wrote:
>
>>
>> Here's a table of efforts that I've used where the % of effort
>> corresponds to Karvonen calculations using heart rate reserve and
>> perceived exertion corresponds to my breathing.
>>
> ooops, here it is
> http://www.coachbenson.com/ebtcorr.pdf

That's a great breakdown of HR training - thanks. I assume you can computer
the ratio of your 5k time comparatively and come up with your own times - I
am a much slower runner since I am new, than a 20m 5k.

thanks

 

[Dot]

Paul wrote:

> "Dot" <dot.h@#duh?att.net> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Dot wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Here's a table of efforts that I've used where the % of effort
>>>corresponds to Karvonen calculations using heart rate reserve and
>>>perceived exertion corresponds to my breathing.
>>>
>>
>>ooops, here it is
>>http://www.coachbenson.com/ebtcorr.pdf
>
>
> That's a great breakdown of HR training - thanks. I assume you can computer
> the ratio of your 5k time comparatively and come up with your own times - I
> am a much slower runner since I am new, than a 20m 5k.
>
I'm not sure how the paces break down - I suspect linearly, at least in
the aerobic zones, but I completely ignore the pace column. You might be
able to plot the existing zones and see. I run hilly trails, sometimes
on snowshoes in fresh snow, so I've always trained by effort, never by
pace. For perspective, my 5k time is about 39+ min. I'm slower than most
tables.

If you're intending to train by hr, I'd ignore the pace of anything.
It's ok to calculate it afterward, but trying to train by hr and pace
simultaneously may lead to frustration. JMHO.

Dot

--
"If we reach all our goals, we are not setting them high enough."
- Matt Carpenter

 

[Paul]

> If you're intending to train by hr, I'd ignore the pace of anything. It's
> ok to calculate it afterward, but trying to train by hr and pace
> simultaneously may lead to frustration. JMHO.
>
> Dot

Thanks, I think I will go just by HR and record the pace for comparison sake
later own the road

 

[Triathlete]

Paul wrote:
> "Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Wx4ph.595302$1T2.106975@pd7urf2no...
>> Paul wrote:
>>>> I just read a good article by Mark Allen, relating to him changing his
>>>> hr and effort.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.markallenonline.com/heartrate.asp
>>> Tri - I read that article again and that would mean I would have to train
>>> at an HR of 138 - I can walk and get to that HR without ever running.
>>> Yet when I ran slowly the other day I was able to keep it around 145 -
>>> 148.
>>>
>>> Is this article recommending I stop running and go back to walking fast
>>> until I can run and keep it under 138?
>> I don't know. I had to start over, but that was several years ago.
>>
>> I noticed only yesterday that my hr is lower when I run, compared to when
>> I am doing other tasks or movements that I thought would be lower.
>>
>> Have you noticed your hr increase or decrease dramatically based on how
>> much activity that you have done that week?
>>
>> I will read up the method that Gordo uses for you. I think he says that
>> the rate in which your breathing changes, minus ten beats is a good place
>> to start, but I would have to go back to the book and check that out for
>> you and I ran out of time today. The book is a few years old, but the blog
>> is only a few months old. Gordo went to a Shamanic training camp in Texas
>> featuring Mark Allen in October, and he may have changed his method of
>> training heart rate. I thought about going to this camp but participated
>> in a race instead.
>>
>> Back to hr, it does get better fairly quick. Swimming at a higher hr may
>> keep it from adapting to a lower hr profile as quickly as it could.
>>
>> Your hr might also change depending on liquid in your body, if you had a
>> gel or sports drink first, if you have to pee, etc.
>>
>> If you start running 1 min and walking 1 minute, you might see a great
>> change happen in your hr as it gets stronger at lower beats. The process
>> might not take as long as you think.
>>
>> I am tempted to write Mark Allen or Gordo on this question. Unless you
>> want to take a shot at it?
>
> I just wrote a post on Mark Allen's forum - it's waiting for approval to be
> posted. Here's what I said:
> "I am trying to understand how to develop my first base in HR training.
> Here's where I am:
> - I am 42 year old male
>
> - Have been swimming with a masters group for a little over a year
>
> - My runs have worked up to a 10 mile run (3 weeks ago) which was a very
> slow pace (11min) and an average HR of 165, but my runs have been
> inconsistent which means I have run a few times on week then take a week off
>
> - This will be my first year in triathlon I plan several sprints and maybe
> an Olympic distance
>
> My concern, after writing on a forum and reading several articles on HR base
> training, is that my HR is too high for developing a good base. I was able
> to run 3 days ago for a 1/2 hour keeping my HR under around 145-148. I felt
> much better but was going really slow.
>
> Some article I read say I that, in order to build a good base HR phase, I
> need to keep my HR in the 135 range. In order to keep it that low, I would
> have not do more than walk fast. If I break into a run at even a slow pace,
> I'm in the 145+ range.
>
> Since I did a 10-miler, I don't feel I need (maybe "want" is a more
> appropriate word) to start over but I DO realize the value of developing a
> strong HR base training pahse.
>
> Where do I go from here regarding my runs (frequency, duration, HR
> during,...)? The same question could be for my swims and bike rides as
> well.
>
> Many thanks!"

Hey Paul, did you get a response?

 

[Remi]

Hey Triathlete, thanks so much for taking your time to help us all here.
It is very much appreciated and I think I speak for everyone here when I say
this.

I have already learned a lot just from reading your posts! I am a cyclist
(mountain biker) and will be racing Elite for the firt time this year so I
just recently started swimming and last year I started running (which helped
me a lot in bike races by the way).

I did my first Duathlon last year as well and did very well, now I'm looking
at swiming more to cross train for biking and running (did a few 10K races
last year as well and went really well for that too). I don't really intend
to do a triathlon this year but hey who knows, I might be tempted to try one
once I can learn the right technique (swimming). What got me in swimming in
the first place was because of groin injury from hockey, my father always
told me that swimming was the best way to recover for him whenever he would
get a groin injury, but now I am also looking at it as an addition to my
training for biking and running. I'm really glad I started and I am getting
interested in maybe trying a tri sometime which brought me to this forum.

I too wasn't too sure how to plan my week with all 3 sports, for now I try
to train mostly in aerobic zone and vary from biking (spinning) / running /
swimming, sometimes will do 2 different sports in the same day without
pushing too much. Something I have learned (the hard way) is to listen to
your body, and certainly a heart rate monitor is a great tool that I have
not used enough and realize now how important it is.

Anyway, yours posts are very helpful and informative, I like the idea about
spinning for 30 min then do a few sets of pushups ans situp and get back on
the bike and do more core.. Makes great sense to me, I will that once in
awhile.

Remi




"Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:igfoh.557539$1T2.106054@pd7urf2no...
> Paul wrote:
>> "Triathlete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:UE_nh.560355$5R2.358782@pd7urf3no...
>>> Paul wrote:
>>>> Triathlete - this has been a real education for me and I sincerely
>>>> appreciate it. I just pruchased two tri books so I can continue my
>>>> education.
>>>>
>>>> It's been very helpful and Many thanks!
>>> My pleasure, please keep us posted on your progress.
>>> Which books did you purchase?
>>
>> 1- The 12-Week Triathlete: Train for a Triathlon in Just Three Months by
>> Ton Holland
>> 2- Triathlon Training in Four Hours a Week by Eric Harr
>
> I haven't read these books or heard of them. If you like, please post how
> the books have helped your training or if you found them to be helpful in
> other ways.
>
>> Both seem good and cover all the necessary things.
>>
>> I was particularly interested in integrating a strength program in my
>> schedule. I didn't know when to do strength and core - if I do it the
>> day before I swim, will it interfere with my swim performance, should I
>> not do legs exercises the day after or before my bog run,...questions
>> like those kept me from doing much any strengthening. But these books
>> integrate them into the schedule so it's helpful that way as well.
>
> My first tri coach told us to do core strength after the swim, on the side
> of the pool.
>
> I like this method and find my best stretching comes after a swim, and I
> have kept to this method. I do a little bit of yoga, a little bit of core
> pilates. I need to add weights to my routine, I haven't started back at
> the gym yet. I only started my base in November.
>
> I am wondering the same as you. How do I schedule 3 runs, 3 swims, 3 bikes
> 2 weights and 2-3 yoga a week and keep sane and fresh and have a day off?
>
> During the early base (Jan-mid Feb) I will do a modified gordo week:
>
> 1 cycle:
>
> week 1 - 2 runs, 3 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights 1 recovery run
> 30 minutes. total time: wow.. 15-17 hours. I had no idea. I have never
> added up my weekly hours before. I may switch yoga for weights and
> alternate each week, but still do core at the pool, or after a run or
> bike.
>
> week 2 - 3 runs, 2 swims, 2 bikes, 2 yoga 2 weights, recovery run
> 30 minutes. total time: 14hrs 45min
>
> week 3 - 2 runs, 2 swims, 3 bikes, 2 yoga, 2 weights, 1 recovery
> workout 30 minutes. total time: 14.5
>
> week 4 - 50% and 2 really light yoga, no weights, add more stretching.
>
> As I am just getting back into training, I will add an extra swim to all
> weeks (maybe not week 1), and work on adding more runs and bikes in about
> 1 more month.
>
> Of course, at this time of year, if there is a nice bike day outside I
> will switch any workout for a good bike ride as this is my current limiter
> in an ironman. If it is raining hard or blasting wind, I will run outside
> instead of bike.
>
> Gordo recommends doing the first and third week as bike/swim weeks, and
> the 2 week as a run week, with a race or test at the end of recovery week.
>
> I read a good post on Gordo's website that says instead of scheduling all
> of the 3, 3, 3, bike swim runs, maybe have a lower limit of workouts say a
> 2/2/2 and then have a bonus round set aside of 1/1/1 to total 3 workouts
> in each sport, so at the end of the week you can feel proud that you did
> bonus rounds rather then feel like you slacked for *only* doing 2/3/2. No
> one should feel badly for missing 1 or 2 hours of workouts a week when you
> have 6-16 hours of workouts each week, and yet it is very easy to do.
>
> Lisa Bentley had a good idea that I may try this year for bike rides on
> the trainer. I forget exactly how it goes, but if you are interested I
> will look up the article, it went something like: spin for half an hour,
> then do 2 sets of push ups and sit ups, get back on bike and do the bike
> and core 2-3 more times.
>
> Most importantly: work on quality, not on junk mileage. If you are tired
> sleep!