internal cable routing

[Cyclopath! - Keiron]

Is there a trick to routing new cable housing through an internally routed
toptube?
There nothing there now so using the old piece to drag the new one through
isn't an option.
Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?
Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
braking than those which aren't? Also the very real fear of snagging oneself
on bosses which are on the top of the toptube is greatly reduced. Has any
manufacturer created a toptube with such a section that the cables can be
recessed while remaining on the outside? If so, who please?

Thanks

 

[raging raven]

Put a slight bend in a long stiff wire like a coat hanger and fish it
through, use that to pull the cable housing through.

 

[RonSonic]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:49:45 GMT, "Cyclopath! - Keiron" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Is there a trick to routing new cable housing through an internally routed
>toptube?
>There nothing there now so using the old piece to drag the new one through
>isn't an option.

You can use a length of cable and fish it through, capture it at the other end
using a plastic cable tie formed into a loop and pushed into the tube.

OR

Stick the nozzle of the old lady's vacuum cleaner over one hole and feed string
into the other.

>Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
>does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
>housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?

You can fish housing through and feel for any bosses, but nothing is needed for
the housing to work.

Ron

>Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
>surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
>bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
>braking than those which aren't? Also the very real fear of snagging oneself
>on bosses which are on the top of the toptube is greatly reduced. Has any
>manufacturer created a toptube with such a section that the cables can be
>recessed while remaining on the outside? If so, who please?
>
>Thanks
>

 

[John Everett]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:49:45 GMT, "Cyclopath! - Keiron"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is there a trick to routing new cable housing through an internally routed
>toptube?
>There nothing there now so using the old piece to drag the new one through
>isn't an option.

From an article I posted here in 1999:

"Tie a small tissue paper "flag" to the end of length of light sewing
thread. Apply the suction of a vacuum cleaner to one of the holes in
the top tube. Feed the thread through the other hole. Eventually it
will emerge. Use the thread to pull through a piece of string which
can then be used to pull through a length of brake cable. The cable
housing can then be fed through over the cable."


jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3

 

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:49:45 GMT, "Cyclopath! - Keiron"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Is there a trick to routing new cable housing through an internally routed
>toptube?
>There nothing there now so using the old piece to drag the new one through
>isn't an option.
>Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
>does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
>housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?
>Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
>surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
>bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
>braking than those which aren't? Also the very real fear of snagging oneself
>on bosses which are on the top of the toptube is greatly reduced. Has any
>manufacturer created a toptube with such a section that the cables can be
>recessed while remaining on the outside? If so, who please?
>
>Thanks
>


Bit of thread and a vacuum worked for me when I had to do that. Thread
then string then cable.

 

[Diablo Scott]

Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:


> Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
> does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
> housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?

Klein and maybe some others have a pressed in housing stop at both
penetrations for the rear brake cable and at the shifter cables only at
the inlet penetration - penetrations near the bottom bracket are just
holes. If you have trouble with the other methods it might help to take
the housing stops out; usually you can re-use them.

> Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
> surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
> bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
> braking than those which aren't?

The internal cables are bare; you don't route the housing inside the
tube so there's no weight difference in that regard.

Klein still does it, most triathlon bikes do it, available on quite a
few other bikes. Some concern that the penetrations are weak spots or
stress risers for fatigue, or that they allow water into the frame, or
that they add friction that could interfere with shifting, but mostly I
suspect its fallen out of favor because it costs more than its perceived
value. Your brake cable compression comment doesn't make any sense.

 

[Bill Sornson]

John Everett wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Sep 2006 13:49:45 GMT, "Cyclopath! - Keiron"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Is there a trick to routing new cable housing through an internally
>> routed toptube?
>> There nothing there now so using the old piece to drag the new one
>> through isn't an option.
>
> From an article I posted here in 1999:
>
> "Tie a small tissue paper "flag" to the end of length of light sewing
> thread. Apply the suction of a vacuum cleaner to one of the holes in
> the top tube. Feed the thread through the other hole. Eventually it
> will emerge. Use the thread to pull through a piece of string which
> can then be used to pull through a length of brake cable. The cable
> housing can then be fed through over the cable."

Brilliant! (Usually said in jest, but not this time.)

 

[Stuart Lynne]

In article <[email protected]>,
Diablo Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
>
>
>> Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
>> does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
>> housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?
>
>Klein and maybe some others have a pressed in housing stop at both
>penetrations for the rear brake cable and at the shifter cables only at
>the inlet penetration - penetrations near the bottom bracket are just
>holes. If you have trouble with the other methods it might help to take
>the housing stops out; usually you can re-use them.
>
>> Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
>> surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
>> bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
>> braking than those which aren't?
>
>The internal cables are bare; you don't route the housing inside the
>tube so there's no weight difference in that regard.
>
>Klein still does it, most triathlon bikes do it, available on quite a
>few other bikes. Some concern that the penetrations are weak spots or
>stress risers for fatigue, or that they allow water into the frame, or
>that they add friction that could interfere with shifting, but mostly I
>suspect its fallen out of favor because it costs more than its perceived
>value. Your brake cable compression comment doesn't make any sense.

For non-steel frames a magnet can be very useful for moving a bare cable
around at the far end to get it near the exit hole...


Cervelo uses internally routed cables. They claim that it saves 200gms
because of the reduced amount of cable housing. As well as improved
aero... They also have an interesting way of getting the shifter cables
out that looks to be very user friendly.


Trek has them on some models as well, e.g. Equinox 7 (and probably
Equinox 9 and The Team Time Trial..)


I have had both internal and external and can only say that I'm going to
probably buy a Cervelo next year and the ICS system is one of the reasons..

 

[Frank Drackman]

"Stuart Lynne" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:aoNLg.526709$IK3.169888@pd7tw1no...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Diablo Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of
>>> or
>>> does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
>>> housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?
>>
>>Klein and maybe some others have a pressed in housing stop at both
>>penetrations for the rear brake cable and at the shifter cables only at
>>the inlet penetration - penetrations near the bottom bracket are just
>>holes. If you have trouble with the other methods it might help to take
>>the housing stops out; usually you can re-use them.
>>
>>> Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
>>> surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the
>>> external
>>> bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
>>> braking than those which aren't?
>>
>>The internal cables are bare; you don't route the housing inside the
>>tube so there's no weight difference in that regard.
>>
>>Klein still does it, most triathlon bikes do it, available on quite a
>>few other bikes. Some concern that the penetrations are weak spots or
>>stress risers for fatigue, or that they allow water into the frame, or
>>that they add friction that could interfere with shifting, but mostly I
>>suspect its fallen out of favor because it costs more than its perceived
>>value. Your brake cable compression comment doesn't make any sense.
>
> For non-steel frames a magnet can be very useful for moving a bare cable
> around at the far end to get it near the exit hole...
>
>


I have found that a regular magnet is almost useless for this task but when
I used a rare earth magnet it really worked.

 

[[email protected]]

Stuart Lynne wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Diablo Scott <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Are there any kind of bosses inside the tube that i need to be aware of or
> >> does the tube itself provide enough 'pressure' on the housing when the
> >> housing is under pressure from the tensioned cable?
> >
> >Klein and maybe some others have a pressed in housing stop at both
> >penetrations for the rear brake cable and at the shifter cables only at
> >the inlet penetration - penetrations near the bottom bracket are just
> >holes. If you have trouble with the other methods it might help to take
> >the housing stops out; usually you can re-use them.
> >
> >> Incidentally, why did this method of routing ever go away? the housing
> >> surely can't be that weighty compared to the extra weight of the external
> >> bosses and wouldn't a cable under complete compression provide better
> >> braking than those which aren't?
> >
> >The internal cables are bare; you don't route the housing inside the
> >tube so there's no weight difference in that regard.
> >
> >Klein still does it, most triathlon bikes do it, available on quite a
> >few other bikes. Some concern that the penetrations are weak spots or
> >stress risers for fatigue, or that they allow water into the frame, or
> >that they add friction that could interfere with shifting, but mostly I
> >suspect its fallen out of favor because it costs more than its perceived
> >value. Your brake cable compression comment doesn't make any sense.
>
> For non-steel frames a magnet can be very useful for moving a bare cable
> around at the far end to get it near the exit hole...

A magnet on stainless steel cables?


>
>
> Cervelo uses internally routed cables. They claim that it saves 200gms
> because of the reduced amount of cable housing. As well as improved
> aero... They also have an interesting way of getting the shifter cables
> out that looks to be very user friendly.

200 grams savings? What cable housing are they replacing? My
Waterford has cable stops at the headtube lug and the seattube lug.
Bare wire stretches between them. An internally routed cable would not
reduce any housing. Most Waterfords (mine has downtube shifter bosses)
have cable stops at the headtube lug, a guide under the bottom bracket
shell, and a cable stop at the end of the chainstay near the rear
derailleur. Housing is only used to form the loop that goes into the
back of the rear derailleur. An internally routed cable would not
reduce any housing.

More proof bike companies are run by liars. And they sell to gullible
people.



> I have had both internal and external and can only say that I'm going to
> probably buy a Cervelo next year and the ICS system is one of the reasons..

 

[Cyclopath! - Keiron]

Thanks for your views guys. shall employ the string/thread and vaccum
method. Didn't realise the internal style was still prevelent for triathlon.
wonder why mtb scene has rejected it? ah well.

thanks all.

 

[Cyclopath! - Keiron]

Diablo Scott <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
.. Your brake cable compression comment doesn't make any sense.

was convoluted, what i meant was this;

givens:
When the brake lever is pulled the cable is tensioned.
Tensioned cable 'pushes' on the inside of the housing.
Housing 'pushes' back, so to speak, this compression keeps the cable tension
high.(as i understand it)

So i was wondering if the housings position in the top tube increased the
tension giving a better power transfer down the cable.
In retrospect I would guess any effect is minimum or perhaps negative
depending on the shape and angle of the openings. i dunno.

 

[Donald Gillies]

1. use a piece of spider-silk and vacuum cleaner, pull the silk out
of the end.

2. use the spider silk to pull some thread out of the end.

3. use the thread to pull a piece of fishing monofilament out the
end.

4. use the monofilament to pull a piece of string out the end.

5. use the string to pull a piece of cable out the end.


If there's a simple way, i'd love to hear about it. I'm sick of
having to catch a spider (they bite!) every time I have to build up
one of these darned 1980's aero cable-routed bicycles ...

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

 

[Matt O'Toole]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 20:53:40 +0000, Cyclopath! - Keiron wrote:

> Thanks for your views guys. shall employ the string/thread and vaccum
> method.

If the old cable is still in place, use a piece of plastic tubing like the
ones that come with Klein frames. Slide the tubing over the cable, leave
the tubing in place while you remove the old cable and put in a new one,
then remove the tubing.

> Didn't realise the internal style was still prevelent for triathlon.

I guess they think it's more aerodynamic. I always thought it was for
looks.

> wonder why mtb scene has rejected it? ah well.

Because MTB cables have to be removed frequently for cleaning and
lubrication. But AFAIK, Klein MTBs still have internal cables.

Really, it's all for looks.

Matt O.