Internal hub gears or derailleur?



On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:19:12 +0200, "Pete Biggs"
<[email protected]> said in
<[email protected]>:

>The fact that the maintenance when it is eventually required is more of a
>pain, balances it out (if you do your own maintenance).


Or buy a Brompton :) The Brom's hub gear is a doddle to deal with.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
Don Whybrow wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote:
>>
>> one), and tensioning the chain correctly, while centering the wheel,
>> while tightening the wheel nuts evenly, is a physically tricky job.

>
> I use the same technique on the Nexus as I do on the fixie. Tighten
> one nut at a time and walk the wheel as instructed by Sheldon under
> the paragraph labelled "Rear Wheel Installation" on the following
> page ... <http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html>


"Walk" is a new phrase for me (as is "reaction arm"; thanks Andrew), but yes
I do walk it. I still wouldn't call it easy.

~PB
 
Don Whybrow wrote:
> Pete Biggs wrote:
>>
>> one), and tensioning the chain correctly, while centering the wheel,
>> while tightening the wheel nuts evenly, is a physically tricky job.

>
> I use the same technique on the Nexus as I do on the fixie. Tighten one
> nut at a time and walk the wheel as instructed by Sheldon under the
> paragraph labelled "Rear Wheel Installation" on the following page ...
> <http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html>


Or get some chaintugs - or one on the chain side at least. I find they
make it a lot to easier to get the chain tension right on my fixie.
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>> The fact that the maintenance when it is eventually required is more
>> of a pain, balances it out (if you do your own maintenance).

>
> Or buy a Brompton :) The Brom's hub gear is a doddle to deal with.



How would Guy know ? Has he bought a Brompton and not told us about it ?



- Nigel


--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> Or buy a Brompton :) The Brom's hub gear is a doddle to deal with.


It is, but OTOH it has only 3 speeds. You can add the extra half spaces
with the Brom 2 speed derailleur on the "6" models, but that makes using
the gears fiddlier and adds something else to look after.

Ben "Kinetics" Cooper has got the Sturmey 8 into a Brom: I'll be
interested to have a look at one of those at some point, or maybe Brom
themselves will have expanded their options a bit by the time I come to
replace mine (not any time soon, I hasten to add).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
>
>> Or buy a Brompton :) The Brom's hub gear is a doddle to deal with.

>
> It is, but OTOH it has only 3 speeds. You can add the extra half
> spaces with the Brom 2 speed derailleur on the "6" models, but that
> makes using the gears fiddlier and adds something else to look after.
>
> Ben "Kinetics" Cooper has got the Sturmey 8 into a Brom: I'll be
> interested to have a look at one of those at some point, or maybe Brom
> themselves will have expanded their options a bit by the time I come
> to replace mine (not any time soon, I hasten to add).



There are also articles on using a 5-speed hub in a modern Brompton on some
sites (takes you back to the old 5-speed models). Plus, at a price, there
is always the Schlumpf bottom bracket gear. Given that Ben-Kinetics-Cooper
has to charge for an entire new wheel, the Schlumpf option might be a
similar price. And for those not in shopping range of Glasgow, I'm not
convinced that Ben is really set up for dealing with remote customers.



Brompton's own publicity argues that its 6-speed is more efficient than
multi-gear hubs due to the reduced number of sprockets in the sequence.

I'm not sufficiently qualified on gear efficiency to know if this really
matters in practise, but do note that some reviewers (eg. Chris Juden) have
commented that some multi-geared hubs feel like they drag a lot in certain
gears.

I've read articles on hub gear lubrication which suggest that lighter gear
oils would reduce the drag, but increase the requirement of the owner to
carry out oil changes. Those articles suggest that original equipment
grease is fairly heavy, which suits a never-maintained bike, but could be
better if the owner was prepared to arrange a service every year or two.



- Nigel



--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
 
Nigel Cliffe wrote:

> There are also articles on using a 5-speed hub in a modern Brompton on some
> sites (takes you back to the old 5-speed models). Plus, at a price, there
> is always the Schlumpf bottom bracket gear. Given that Ben-Kinetics-Cooper
> has to charge for an entire new wheel, the Schlumpf option might be a
> similar price.


At present the 8 is new bikes only and an extra £200, so a bit less than
a Schlumpf, and means all your gears work from a single, simple control.
One of the nice things about hubs is simplicity, one reason I've not
ever bothered with the 6 speeds.

> And for those not in shopping range of Glasgow, I'm not
> convinced that Ben is really set up for dealing with remote customers.


I would say on the form of the last couple of years that I am now fairly
convinced he isn't set up for dealing with remote customers, until such
time as he takes on an assistant to do the mail order stuff :-(

> Brompton's own publicity argues that its 6-speed is more efficient than
> multi-gear hubs due to the reduced number of sprockets in the sequence.


But you have to switch the derailleur back down one every time you move
the hib up one, as it really only gives you the spaces around the basic
3. And it's something else to go wrong and need to look after. My Brom
is just old enough to allow the retro-fit of the 6 derailleur, but
having tested it and had the money in my pocket for it I passed it up.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
Quoting Nigel Cliffe <[email protected]>:
>There are also articles on using a 5-speed hub in a modern Brompton on some
>sites (takes you back to the old 5-speed models).


There's new production of the S5, the steel-shelled 5-speed which should
fit a B quite nicely. I think this is actually what used to be called the
Sprinter 5 and not what used to be called the S5, just to confuse matters.

>I'm not sufficiently qualified on gear efficiency to know if this really
>matters in practise, but do note that some reviewers (eg. Chris Juden) have
>commented that some multi-geared hubs feel like they drag a lot in certain
>gears.


I don't notice this with my S5-hubbed roadster, although possibly I'm just
excessively oblivious.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
Today is Gorgonzoladay, May - a weekend.
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 08:56:22 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> said in
<[email protected]>:

>It is, but OTOH it has only 3 speeds. You can add the extra half spaces
>with the Brom 2 speed derailleur on the "6" models, but that makes using
>the gears fiddlier and adds something else to look after.


Oi wouldn't now about dat, sorr.

Oh, wait, I have the L6 :)

I clean mine every year, whether it needs it or not. About 6,500
miles thus far, I think, but that's only a guess.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
On Wed, 21 May 2008 09:18:07 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email protected]> said in
<[email protected]>:

>But you have to switch the derailleur back down one every time you move
>the hib up one, as it really only gives you the spaces around the basic
>3. And it's something else to go wrong and need to look after.


In practice this is simply not an issue, IME. The setup makes the
gears sequential, so you always know where to go next. More gears
would be good, but not so good as to tempt me to spend more cash.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
In news:[email protected],
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email protected]> tweaked the Babbage-Engine to tell us:

> Oi wouldn't now about dat, sorr.
>
> Oh, wait, I have the L6 :)


You have a /Brompton/? Why didn't you say?

;-)

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
This Unit is a productive Unit.
 
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

> In practice this is simply not an issue, IME.


Well, it annoyed me enough to not bother parting with the £65 for the
retro-fit kit and stick with 3, even though I'd gone to Kinetics with
the specific intention of getting it bought and fitted.

> The setup makes the
> gears sequential, so you always know where to go next.


Up to a point, Lord Copper: I think 1-low, 1-high, 2-low, 2-high, 3-low,
3-high is a more awkward sequence than 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8.

> More gears
> would be good, but not so good as to tempt me to spend more cash.


Indeed. Which is rather the way I feel about my L3...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/