Intervals to improve 1 Minute Power?

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by spessx, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. spessx

    spessx New Member

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    Hey guys,

    So I plugged my power data into the handy power profiling spreadsheet and it turns out my 1 Minute Power is off the bottom of the chart. It's literally below "Untrained/Non Racer". No wonder I keep getting popped on the last lap of crits. So anyway, I want to train my weakness. What's a typical interval protocol to improve 1 minute power levels?

    1. What interval length in minutes?
    2. What percentage of FTP?
    3. How long should I rest in between intervals?
    4. How many should I do?

    Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.

    -s
     
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  2. fergie

    fergie Member

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    To build the capacity efforts at 10-20 watts above 60sec power.
    -20 x 15sec on 15sec off or
    -10 x 30sec on 30sec off or
    - 5 x 45sec on 45sec off

    To develop the power then...
    -10 x 15sec on 45sec off at 175% of 60sec power or
    -8 x 30sec on 90sec off at 150% of 60sec power or
    -6 x 45sec on 2:15min off at 125% of 60sec power

    Then to maximise
    -60sec max effort, 14min rest, 45sec max effort, 9:15min rest, 30sec max, 4:30min rest and 15sec max effort.

    I would do these types of efforts once a week. Don't want to lose your all round ability and it's aerobic capacity and aerobic power that wins any event over 60sec and the problem with having a very well developed anaerobic capacity is that you get tempted to use it and you only have so many matches in the matchbook to burn.
     
  3. spessx

    spessx New Member

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    Thanks Hamish! I really appreciate your help!
     
  4. JibberJim

    JibberJim Member

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    All of these are impossible workouts for me.

    My 60second power is 600 watts

    So the 15second reps would require 1050 watts, I've done that once, but I was obviously spent afterwards and it requires a particular sort of gradient and speed where I can continue turning the right gear in my right cadence, I couldn't possibly do a 2nd rep of it without at least 4 or 5 minutes of rest.

    My 30second power would be 900 watts, this I've never done, my best ever 30 second power being 880.

    My 45 second power would be 750, my best ever there is 767 so again I could perhaps do one interval, this is similar to workouts I've actually attempted and typically a 1st workout was around 700, and subsequent ones (actually on slightly longer rest periods) were around 600.

    So presumably you mean actual realistic numbers - do you suggest doing them at the maximum intensity you can hold for the duration and accepting decline, or are you suggesting going less than the max and trying to make them reproducible?
     
  5. fergie

    fergie Member

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    I would see these as targets that reflect the intensity one is trying to attain. I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers. I think it also reflects the nature of anaerobic capacity and the need to think long and hard about the trade off with having a higher anaerobic capacity and what it could mean for the aerobic system.

    If it moves the OP from 50th to 45th in a crit then probably not, but if he goes from 5th to 1st then it would be worth it once a week to do such workouts and I would only do those anaerobic efforts for a 4 weeks at a time.
     
  6. gregf83

    gregf83 New Member

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    Same here. My 1', 45", 30" and 15" powers are: 621, 690, 859 and 994W respectively or 100, 111, 138 and 160% of 1min power. I guess that explains why my sprint sucks.
     
  7. JibberJim

    JibberJim Member

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    Thanks, btw my weak 1 minute power is what keeps me out of the break on hilly courses, not what lose me 5 places in a sprint.
     
  8. fergie

    fergie Member

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    I would suggest a fuzzy grey area with the whole level 5-6-7 power where the 5sec power reflects the top end but will only have a major influence for a BMX rider where the first 2-3 pedal strokes is where the race is won or lost. That also being said 60sec doesn't reflect ones road or track sprint ability, however in a crit may indicate how one goes if the pace is ballistic in the last few laps of a crit or a hard finish to a road race.

    For the majority of riders, life is spent in the level 3-5 zones so this is where the bulk of the training is and the power profile in Training Peaks will reflect that. If one lives in the anaerobic zone: BMX, Sprint, Downhill, Kilo, Scratch Race and Shorter Pursuit then you may be better looking at 15sec, 30sec, 45sec, 60sec, 90sec and 120 sec power as your KPIs. You would also be doing anaerobic efforts more than once a week.
     
  9. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Maybe you need to incorporate an anaerobic session to try and break new ground or create a race strategy that works to your aerobic strengths. If your racing has lots of short climbs and your getting shelled at the bottom maybe a little extra L6 power will get you through that initial burst of power but if you get shelled going over the top then your L5 power may be the area you need to focus on.
     
  10. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    I'd kill for 600 watts for 1 minute...
     
  11. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    -I don't do much level 6 work, but I remember a thread where Dr. Coggan threw out 10 x (1 min @ 150% + 9 min recovery).

    -Also seen folks recommend sets of 5 x (1 min @ 150% of FTP + 4 minutes of recovery) with a longer break between sets.

    -Since aerobic sources supply a majority of the ATP for maximal efforts over 70 seconds, others have recommended shorter repetitions of 30 seconds of maximal effort on 4-4:30 rest. For these, I'd use the guidelines in TRWPM for when to stop doing repeats based on the 3rd interval.
     
  12. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    Fergie, I respect your views on training and the like. Keeping that in mind...

    The above, at least the first set of workouts sound an awful lot like a rather known, grueling session: namely tabata's. Would you agree Tabata's would be just as good?

    The other thing and thinking of specificity, why not just do 1 minute intervals (with significant rest between intervals) to maximize 1 minute power? ;-)
     
  13. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Yeah, I just work on 1:3 work:recovery ratio for anaerobic capacity intervals.

    Kilo riders don't do Kilo's to get better at them. The nature of such anaerobic efforts is that they are pretty unpleasant and as mentioned seeing cycling is such an aerobic sport you have to weigh up pretty carefully the need for them.

    For the OP it's costing him in crits so I would suggest a little work in this area will benefit. Obviously they are bread and butter for a Kilo rider but then going in the other direction I would suggest a track sprinter focus on the 20-32 sec power range.
     
  14. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    Good to get your comments Fergie :)

    Heh, kilo's and 1-minute all-out efforts unpleasant? Now you are being generous in calling them merely unpleasant as these are right painful... :eek:

    Slight diversion but you speak of track sprinters focusing on 20-32 second power. Such a range would clearly involve more than just the ATP/PCr system and bring into play anaerobic glycolysis also. Yet my impression, both from study as well as much anecdotal evidence from track files of sprinters has been that to do well in real track sprinting (200m & match sprinting), requires a relatively high, not necessarily the highest, 5 second power (or neuromuscular ability or jump if you prefer). Do you think otherwise?

    I'm recalling Dr. Coggan's discussion of how several women whose abilities he was familiar with, all had significantly different final times in a 500m TT despite having virtually identical average power for the duration. The rationale for the different final times being largely attributed to neuromuscular power. I realize the 500m is a unique event and not necessarily the same as a 200m, but anyhoo, for discussions sake...
     
  15. fergie

    fergie Member

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    Yep, most of my guys hurl after a Kilo. I get my guys to pace them which I think tends to increase the lactate levels at the end:D

    Definitely, especially now riders tend to go from longer out, tend to build up to top speed rather than jump hard and now have a Keirin, Team Sprint and Match Sprint at Worlds and Olympics.

    The Aussies chased peak power, strength and speed and became the fastest, strongest and most powerful riders. They just weren't good sprinters. Sure they could hit high peaks but the drop off was huge. They would be down the track for 3-4 hours doing a 6 sec effort then rest 30mins. Close to the key events they would add in speed endurance but it didn't work. Beaten by guys who had less peak but could hold the speed for 250-500metres.

    Specificity is just as important here as it is in road cycling. The starter for the NZ Team Sprint just focuses on his standing 250m. Nothing else and as such is the fastest man out of the gate and has just enough speed going through 250m to deliver the next rider. As a consequence in a match sprint or Keirin if taken long or the pace his high (negating his jump) he gets outclassed quite regularly.

    Average power or power to weight or frontal surface area. We had two Junior Pursuiters ride 3:22 for 3000m and one had an average power 80 watts higher than the other. One kid was like a brick on the bike and the others was super flexible and had a very low profile. I train the U17 record holder for 500m tt in NZ and he went through the first lap in 5th place but held his speed while everyone else dropped off and he ended up .5sec ahead of the Silver Medal.

    I would say you get what you train for. Train long miles you get good at riding long miles at slow speeds, train for max speed and your max speed will increase. You just have to determine what you are actually training for. Will that max speed or long slow miles actually benefit your racing?
     
  16. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Still gonna stand by the fact there is a big brick wall waiting for ALL riders training specificity alone, trying to increase watts.

    In fact there is a big brick wall in most athletic sports for athletes training specificity alone, running, sprinting, jumping, throwing events etc.

    Cycling is no different.
     
  17. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    There fixed it for ya..

    So how do you account for the thousands of riders, including generations of professional racers like: Anquetil, Coppi, and Merckx that trained on cycling specificity alone? I'd sure hate to run up against the 'big brick wall' that slowed down their careers...
     
  18. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Well, Merckx did run into a fan (ok, the fan ran into him) and got a mean right straight in the kidneys... That slowed him down a bit. :p
     
  19. Chapeau!

    Chapeau! New Member

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    Not really.

    You will fix it for me when you give me accurate power numbers for Anquetil, Coppi, and Merckx?.
     
  20. jollyrogers

    jollyrogers New Member

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    So did Armstrong have more or less "relative strength" after his 3 years of retirement where he did plenty of cross training?
     
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