IRD Cadence Rims

[D'ohBoy]

So I broke down and bought a pair of these to go with my new Record
hubs. Got the VSR rear (OCR). I was thinking Aerohead, but these
have eyelets and are ~25 - 30 gms lighter per rim (per weight
weenies).

Coupla people including myself have asked about these before and I
will provide a series of reports on the build, first coupla rides, and
long-term durability.

They have a claimed weight of 390 gms which is closely corroborated by
weight weenies. I am building these up 32 hole F/R, prolly CX-Rays in
the front and Laser/Race (ND/D) in the rear as there still is a
significant differential between the tension ND/D despite the VSR rear
rim (~25%, according to spocalc). Might as well take advantage of the
lower ND side tension to use a lighter spoke. Not using CX-Ray on the
rear as there is so much turbulence already that a bladed spoke will
result in no benefit there (and I'll save about $1.25 per spoke).

D'ohBoy

 

[daveornee]

So I broke down and bought a pair of these to go with my new Record
hubs. Got the VSR rear (OCR). I was thinking Aerohead, but these
have eyelets and are ~25 - 30 gms lighter per rim (per weight
weenies).

Coupla people including myself have asked about these before and I
will provide a series of reports on the build, first coupla rides, and
long-term durability.

They have a claimed weight of 390 gms which is closely corroborated by
weight weenies. I am building these up 32 hole F/R, prolly CX-Rays in
the front and Laser/Race (ND/D) in the rear as there still is a
significant differential between the tension ND/D despite the VSR rear
rim (~25%, according to spocalc). Might as well take advantage of the
lower ND side tension to use a lighter spoke. Not using CX-Ray on the
rear as there is so much turbulence already that a bladed spoke will
result in no benefit there (and I'll save about $1.25 per spoke).

D'ohBoy

I will be interested in your follow on reports.
Lighter rims with the added weight of eyelets does make me wonder how this combination will work out. I have experience with Velocity, but it will be interesting to hear what you think and what you are able to measure (do they really weigh what they claim); how do the spoke nipples align; how well can you balance spoke tension and get lateral and radial true.. especially at the joint.
Your spoke choice sounds reasonable to me, so it will be interesting to hear how it all turns out.

 

[John Verheul]

"D'ohBoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Coupla people including myself have asked about these before and I
> will provide a series of reports on the build, first coupla rides, and
> long-term durability.

I ran one as a 28h front training/'cross racing wheel for the last 12
months. Eventually cracked the rim around 3 of the eyelets. Not catastrophic
failure, just started cracking. Probably fewer than 6000 miles, and I only
rode it in a few 'cross races (I have a lot of 'cross wheels).

I built it myself, and tensioned them enough to prevent spokes loosening on
a regular basis, but no more than that.

> They have a claimed weight of 390 gms which is closely corroborated by
> weight weenies.

Me as well. I have an accurate digital scale (one of my pets has a, uh,
weight issue), and mine came out right at 390.

I'm switching back to Aeroheads, which despite (or because of?) no eyelets,
do not seem to have the history of cracking around the spoke holes.

Interestingly, I've been running the deeper Cadence Aeros as front and rear
road race wheels, training on the front quite a bit as well, no cracking
yet. 28h rear, 24h front.

N=1, YMMV.

John Verheul

 

[Antti Salonen]

John Verheul <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm switching back to Aeroheads, which despite (or because of?) no eyelets,
> do not seem to have the history of cracking around the spoke holes.

The Aerohead seems to have a pretty smart design, because the cross
section is such that the rim is actually a lot thicker at the spoke
holes, and the V shape seems to support the load well even without
eyelets.

I'm also building a pair of wheels with the IRD Cadence rims, 28/24
spoke count, CX-Ray spokes. This makes for a very light wheelset, and
I'm guessing they should be strong enough for my light weight (60 to 65
kg, depending on the season).

Antti

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Mar 1, 2:48 pm, "John Verheul" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I built it myself, and tensioned them enough to prevent spokes loosening on
> a regular basis, but no more than that.


> Interestingly, I've been running the deeper Cadence Aeros as front and rear
> road race wheels, training on the front quite a bit as well, no cracking
> yet. 28h rear, 24h front.

Any idea what the tension was/is on these wheelsets? Also, what spokes
did you use?

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Mar 1, 9:40 am, daveornee <daveornee.2mr...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> how do the spoke nipples align

I built a Powertap hub last night (very large flanges) and it was the
first time I felt compelled to bend the spokes at the nipples to get
the nipples to sit properly in the rim. Do you do this often (or ever)
with low flange hubs? The rim was a Ni30 (same as Cadence Aero) which
doesn't have offset drilling so the effect is more pronounced.

 

[daveornee]

On Mar 1, 9:40 am, daveornee <daveornee.2mr...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> how do the spoke nipples align

I built a Powertap hub last night (very large flanges) and it was the
first time I felt compelled to bend the spokes at the nipples to get
the nipples to sit properly in the rim. Do you do this often (or ever)
with low flange hubs? The rim was a Ni30 (same as Cadence Aero) which
doesn't have offset drilling so the effect is more pronounced.

Yes, it is pretty standard for me with 3X 32H & 36H builds on Velocity Deep V rims. The rim spoke/nipple holes are snug and there is only so much even a spherically headed nipple can do to rotate.
You will note in Jobst's book he addresses the potential situation.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Mar 2, 11:16 am, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 1, 9:40 am, daveornee <daveornee.2mr...@no-
>
> mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> > how do the spoke nipples align
>
> I built a Powertap hub last night (very large flanges) and it was the
> first time I felt compelled to bend the spokes at the nipples to get
> the nipples to sit properly in the rim. Do you do this often (or ever)
> with low flange hubs? The rim was a Ni30 (same as Cadence Aero) which
> doesn't have offset drilling so the effect is more pronounced.

Make sure you have the spokes in the proper holes in the rim.

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Mar 3, 7:40 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Make sure you have the spokes in the proper holes in the rim.

The holes are not offset... they are all drilled right down the
center. I think the Deep Vs Dave talked about are the same.

 

[daveornee]

On Mar 3, 7:40 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Make sure you have the spokes in the proper holes in the rim.

The holes are not offset... they are all drilled right down the
center. I think the Deep Vs Dave talked about are the same.

Deep V has offset and the holes are angled side-to-side. If you look from the "inside", where the nipples holes are (on Deep V rims), it is more obvious. The spoke alignment I need is in the radial orientation as illustrated in Jobst's book. It is a few degress, in the oposite direction than you would get by "squeezing spoke pairs" for "stress relief".

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Mar 3, 10:17 am, daveornee <daveornee.2mv...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> The spoke alignment I need is in the radial orientation
> as illustrated in Jobst's book. It is a few degress, in the oposite
> direction than you would get by "squeezing spoke pairs" for "stress
> relief".

"Improving the spoke line at the rim". He mentions that this is
sometimes helpful for large flange hubs, but it is interesting that
you do it for small flange hubs as well... or maybe just with the Deep
V? I suppose it will be more pronounced with rims that have a thick
nipple seat and a small hole... and certainly the Ni30 having no
offset doesn't help either.

Do you use a tool, or just squeeze the spokes?

 

[John Verheul]

"Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mar 1, 2:48 pm, "John Verheul" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I built it myself, and tensioned them enough to prevent spokes loosening
>> on
>> a regular basis, but no more than that.
>
>
>> Interestingly, I've been running the deeper Cadence Aeros as front and
>> rear
>> road race wheels, training on the front quite a bit as well, no cracking
>> yet. 28h rear, 24h front.
>
> Any idea what the tension was/is on these wheelsets?

Nope, don't own a guage. Not worth it for the few sets of wheel I build.
The "enough to prevent spokes loosening" tension was through trial & error,
if you know what I mean.

> Also, what spokes
> did you use?

DT 14g on the front, 2x. Can't remember the model, they're the ones with 14g
threads & head, flat aero section in the middle that still goes through an
unslotted hole.

DT 14-15-14 on the right rear, 15-16-15 w/aluminum nips on the left. Both
sides 2x (it's on a powertap SL hub, the combination of the higher flanges
and the 30mm deep rim means you get the same angle off the flange as with a
low flange hub, box section rim, 3x).

 

[daveornee]

On Mar 3, 10:17 am, daveornee <daveornee.2mv...@no-
mx.forums.cyclingforums.com> wrote:
> The spoke alignment I need is in the radial orientation
> as illustrated in Jobst's book. It is a few degress, in the oposite
> direction than you would get by "squeezing spoke pairs" for "stress
> relief".

"Improving the spoke line at the rim". He mentions that this is
sometimes helpful for large flange hubs, but it is interesting that
you do it for small flange hubs as well... or maybe just with the Deep
V? I suppose it will be more pronounced with rims that have a thick
nipple seat and a small hole... and certainly the Ni30 having no
offset doesn't help either.

Do you use a tool, or just squeeze the spokes?

Nylon Jawed pliers with 14 g groove.
Squeezing as Jobst illustrates works well too.

 

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

On Mar 3, 9:47 am, "Ron Ruff" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mar 3, 7:40 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Make sure you have the spokes in the proper holes in the rim.
>
> The holes are not offset... they are all drilled right down the
> center. I think the Deep Vs Dave talked about are the same.

No, if you look at the outiside of the rim you will see they are
drilled at a small angle. BUT the ouside rim holes are offset to the
opposite of the direction that the spoke travels to the hub. Hole to
the right, spoke to the left of the hub.

 

[Ron Ruff]

On Mar 4, 7:51 am, "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> No, if you look at the outiside of the rim you will see they are
> drilled at a small angle.

As Dave mentioned, the Deep V is, but the Ni30 is drilled right down
the center... no offset. I don't know if any others are. Do you have
one of these rims handy?

 

[D'ohBoy]

:<snip original post >:

Got the rims the other day. Haven't had a chance to take them in to
work to weigh them on our shipping scale, but they definitely are
comparable to the spare silver OP rim I have in my bike bits pile.

As for the rims themselves: they have a minimalist look with a low
profile narrow section. The brake track is nicely machined. The rim
joint appears to have been joined after machining as there is a slight
edge I can see and feel as I run my thumb across it. The OP has no
such irregularity.

The Offset on the VSR rear appears to be about 3-4 mm, which,
according to spocalc, still creates a significant tension differential
between D/ND with the Record hubs.

A few of the stickers were mis-oriented on the rims. Being borderline
clinical OCD, I fired a quick email request for some replacement
stickers to IRD and they were so kind as to send me a new set.
Thanks, guys.

Will be building these up this week. Report to follow.

D'ohBoy

 

[A Muzi]

D'ohBoy wrote:
> :<snip original post >:
>
> Got the rims the other day. Haven't had a chance to take them in to
> work to weigh them on our shipping scale, but they definitely are
> comparable to the spare silver OP rim I have in my bike bits pile.
>
> As for the rims themselves: they have a minimalist look with a low
> profile narrow section. The brake track is nicely machined. The rim
> joint appears to have been joined after machining as there is a slight
> edge I can see and feel as I run my thumb across it. The OP has no
> such irregularity.
>
> The Offset on the VSR rear appears to be about 3-4 mm, which,
> according to spocalc, still creates a significant tension differential
> between D/ND with the Record hubs.
>
> A few of the stickers were mis-oriented on the rims. Being borderline
> clinical OCD, I fired a quick email request for some replacement
> stickers to IRD and they were so kind as to send me a new set.
> Thanks, guys.
>
> Will be building these up this week. Report to follow.

I peel off rim stickers. Try it. Rims work just as well.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[Ozark Bicycle]

On Mar 17, 8:13 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
> > :<snip original post >:
>
> > Got the rims the other day. Haven't had a chance to take them in to
> > work to weigh them on our shipping scale, but they definitely are
> > comparable to the spare silver OP rim I have in my bike bits pile.
>
> > As for the rims themselves: they have a minimalist look with a low
> > profile narrow section. The brake track is nicely machined. The rim
> > joint appears to have been joined after machining as there is a slight
> > edge I can see and feel as I run my thumb across it. The OP has no
> > such irregularity.
>
> > The Offset on the VSR rear appears to be about 3-4 mm, which,
> > according to spocalc, still creates a significant tension differential
> > between D/ND with the Record hubs.
>
> > A few of the stickers were mis-oriented on the rims. Being borderline
> > clinical OCD, I fired a quick email request for some replacement
> > stickers to IRD and they were so kind as to send me a new set.
> > Thanks, guys.
>
> > Will be building these up this week. Report to follow.
>
> I peel off rim stickers. Try it. Rims work just as well.
>

IMO, they work even better, since the stickers tend to be u-g-l-y.
Less ugly = better, IMHO.

 

[Bill Sornson]

A Muzi wrote:

> I peel off rim stickers. Try it. Rims work just as well.

Less weight and wind resistance, too! Hmmmm.........

 

[D'ohBoy]

On Mar 17, 9:13 pm, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
> D'ohBoy wrote:
> > :<snip original post >:
>
> > Got the rims the other day. Haven't had a chance to take them in to
> > work to weigh them on our shipping scale, but they definitely are
> > comparable to the spare silver OP rim I have in my bike bits pile.
>
> > As for the rims themselves: they have a minimalist look with a low
> > profile narrow section. The brake track is nicely machined. The rim
> > joint appears to have been joined after machining as there is a slight
> > edge I can see and feel as I run my thumb across it. The OP has no
> > such irregularity.
>
> > The Offset on the VSR rear appears to be about 3-4 mm, which,
> > according to spocalc, still creates a significant tension differential
> > between D/ND with the Record hubs.
>
> > A few of the stickers were mis-oriented on the rims. Being borderline
> > clinical OCD, I fired a quick email request for some replacement
> > stickers to IRD and they were so kind as to send me a new set.
> > Thanks, guys.
>
> > Will be building these up this week. Report to follow.
>
> I peel off rim stickers. Try it. Rims work just as well.
>
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971


So true! And then I wouldn't go into a OC tizzy when the clear top
layer on the stickers starts to peel up from lube and road grime.

FYI, and in case you missed it in the heat of your wry wit, that bit
was more of a comment on the responsiveness of the mfr to customer
issues than a reflection on the poor placement of a few stickers.

D'ohBoy