Iron based anemia

Discussion in 'Health Nutrition and Supplements' started by PaintNLady, Aug 14, 2003.

  1. PaintNLady

    PaintNLady New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would like to know how much being very anemic has on lactic acid production.
    I am having lots of problems with fatigue and leg burning while biking. So, I wonder if it is because I am out of shape or because of my iron deficency.

    I realized one week ago that I had dipped into my low iron stage and have begun taking iron and vitamin E. This time I will continue taking the iron until I have a blood test that is in the normal range, even if that is just barely "normal".

    And yes I am working with a Dr.
     
    Tags:


  2. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    0
    Both systems are seperate, so there shouldn't be a direct effect of one on the other.

    If you are aneamic you wouldn't be able to work as hard as normal because your blood doesn't carry as much oxygen as normal. If you train the the same way (i.e. same speed over the same terrain) you may find that you are working reletivly harder, resulting in lactate accumulation.

    Red blood cells also buffer lactate, so if your heamatocrit is low you might find that increases in lactate are more damaging to your performance.

    All in all, get your iorn back up (and find out why you are aneamic) while taking it easier on the bike when you feel you need to. When you are recovered training at lactate threshold and anaerobic training (e.g. maximal sprints of 45 seconds) will help you cope better with lactate.
     
  3. Insight Driver

    Insight Driver New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    1
    All in all, get your iorn back up (and find out why you are aneamic) while taking it easier on the bike when you feel you need to. When you are recovered training at lactate threshold and anaerobic training (e.g. maximal sprints of 45 seconds) will help you cope better with lactate. [/QUOTE]

    Ok....thanks. One more question comes to mind now.....Once I am in that lactate burn, if I can force myself to continue with more intensity, will the burn stop or is it I who has to slow down and let the body clear out the lactic acid???? In other words can you "work" thro a burn?
     
  4. PaintNLady

    PaintNLady New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2003
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    OOOPS.....I was not logged in under my username.....Insight Driver is my husband
     
  5. 2LAP

    2LAP New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    0
    When your legs are burning, the only way you can stop them burning is to slow down a little. Maintaining or increasing the pace will only increase the lactate more resulting in more burn or your legs slowing down/weakening until you recover.

    The lactate burn shouldn't always be seen as a bad thing and is a sign that some training sessions (ananerobic) are going well.
     
  6. Seecyd

    Seecyd New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2003
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems a lot of people complain about the symptoms of anemia. I have heard that V B12 helps the body to absorb iron [injested through foods]. You have to be careful of iron overloading your system. I have read a bit about the imbalance of Iron --as in too much-- and heart problems, especially in the genes of many coming from the british isles. I'm not an expert, but I'd be careful.
     
  7. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    A few facts about B12:

    1. it's an animal product though furnished by soy in small amounts. So vegetarians may need a B12 supplement to avoid Pernicious Anemia;

    2. alcoholics may require B12 injections since alcoholism impares the body's ability to absorb it.
     
  8. Pacesetter

    Pacesetter New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    when you feel the 'burn' this is when lactate production is greater than the body's ability to get rid of it. If you can you should try to cycle alittle longer with the burn, this will, after time help your body become more efficient. Another term for this is Anaerobic Threshold training, by pushing up your AT, you will eventually be able to ride at a higher intensity for longer.
     
  9. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Strictly speaking, pernicious anaemia is due to a lack of 'intrinsic factor' which is produced by the stomach to allow Vit B12 to get absorbed in the last part of the small intestine. Hence, vegetarians can get B12 deficient leading to 'megaloblastic anaemia' but it is not called 'pernicious anaemia'.

    Also, PaintNLady, Vitamin C will help you absorb Iron by encouraging the iron to go from Ferric (Fe3+) to Ferrous (Fe2+). The latter is absorbable, the former is not. I presume you meant to say Vit C rather than Vit E???

    To Seecyd, apart from people with inheritable iron overload conditions (eg haemochromatosis which occurs in 5 out of every 1000 white people, less in other races), it is very hard to overdose on iron. You only absorb a very small proportion of that which you eat.
     
  10. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Pernicious anemia is due either to a lack of B12 ingestion or intrinsic factor, one or the other.
     
  11. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sorry, but what I wrote was correct. Check any medical textbook if you like.
    There are many causes of B12 deficiency and 'pernicious anaemia' is only one of them - and it is due to a lack of intrinsic factor.
     
  12. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Sorry, but review what you wrote.

    Pernicious anemia is the RESULT AND NOT THE CAUSE of B12 deficiency. Anemia does not cause a B12 deficiency. It's the end result.

    I'm a chiropractor and I've taught Health Science including anemias for several years.

    Go read the MERCK MANUAL.
     
  13. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are probably not teaching it very well then but hopefully your students read textbooks. You could try Harrisons or UpToDate.
    Here is a list of causes of B12 deficiency:
    Gastric causes:
    -Pernicious anaemia
    -gastrectomy
    Small intestinal causes:
    -Malabsorption
    -Ileal resection or bypass
    -Crohn's disease
    -Blind loop syndrome
    Pancreatic cause:
    -Pancreatic insufficiency
    Diet:
    -Strict vegans, especially during pregnancy
    Agents that block absorption (rare):
    -Neomycin
    -Biguanides (eg metformin)
    -Proton pump imhibitors (eg omeprazole)
    Inherited transcobalamin II deficiency

    As I said before and as this list demonstrates, there are many causes of B12 deficiency. Any of these can lead to megaloblastic anaemia or other manifestations such as subacute combined degeneration of the cord, axonal degeneration or dementia.

    Pernicious anaemia is the major cause of B12 deficiency, accounting for over 75 percent of cases.
    Pernicious anaemia is thought to result from an autoimmune attack on gastric intrinsic factor. Anti-intrinsic factor antibodies are detectable in the serum in up to 70 percent of patients with PA.

    I trust you will understand this time but let me know if you want it simpler.
     
  14. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Since you want to engage in ad hominem attacks, please get your head out of your ass, idiot.
     
  15. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is okay to admit you're wrong...
     
  16. Insight Driver

    Insight Driver New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    494
    Likes Received:
    1
    All I can see here is total confusion. I wish for more information and two know-it-alls is all I see bashing each other. My wife is doing the best she can at improving her health with excercise and she has a need as well as I do to learn as much about proper health as possible.

    She has normal iron in her tissue, but it is low in her blood. We eat healthy, including meat and iron-rich cruciferous and leafy vegetables. We eat more fruits than most people. Where my blood chemistry is normal, hers is not. What we need are facts that will help her.
     
  17. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    Blood tests done for "iron studies" are one of the most difficult tests to interpret even for senior doctors.

    The most important result is ferritin which reflects the body's stores of iron. However, it can be hard to interpret in that the ferritin level goes up when you have any inflammation going on at the time (eg the 'flu or a skin infection). If the ferritin is greater than 100, then you can be sure that you are not iron deficient. If it is very low, then you are likely to be iron deficient.

    Women generally have lower levels of ferritin than men because of menstrual losses (1mg iron loss per day) and losses associated with pregnancy & lactation.

    The level of iron itself in the blood is not particularly important and should generally be ignored. Many things can affect the level and whether it is low or high does not accurately reflect iron stores. If your ferritin is above 100 and your iron level is low - don't worry as the low iron level is probably not relevant. If both are low then you are likely to be iron deficient.

    The haemoglobin level & size of your red blood cells on a "full blood examination" or "complete blood count" are important. The haemoglobin level is what tells you that you really are anaemic. There are many causes of fatigue other than anaemia. If you are anaemic, then further evidence for iron deficiency is that the red blood cells are small (MCV or Mean Cell Volume below 80fl). If you have anaemia with normal or large red blood cells, then it is important to look for causes other than iron deficiency.

    If, after all this, the diagnosis of iron deficiency anaemia is made, it is very important to look for the reason why and not just focus on replacing iron. Causes include:
    *Blood loss (eg heavy periods, losses from the stomach or bowel due to things like stomach ulcers or diseases of the colon)
    *Inadequate dietary intake
    *Failure to absorb iron (eg celiac disease or chronic diarrhoea)
    *Other rarer causes

    With regards to iron replacement, remember that this is a slow process. You only absorb a small % of the iron you take in.
    You can absorb up to 30% of the iron in meat, fish or poultry but only 10% or less of the iron in vegetables. It will take a long time to restore your stores fully, especially if losses such as heavy periods are ongoing.

    Adding vitamin C will improve the absorption of iron if taken together. Iron tablets are good but some people get very constipated and others can become disconcerted by the way they make bowel motions black.

    If you are successfully replacing iron, the haemoglobin should rise by ~2 g/dl in the first 3 weeks or so (that is if you were anaemic to start with).
     
  18. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Insight:

    ...don't claim to know it all, just what I've read, learned and been taught. And when someone slams me, I slam back, especially to someone who parrots enitre dissertations. That's all, I simply enlightened this readership to the causes of pernicious anemia and listed a relevant reference, the MERCK MANUAL. Just avoid the namecalling and ad hominem remarks - if you know what I mean.
     
  19. patch70

    patch70 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    0
    How do you justify using the word "enlightened" when what you said was wrong?
    Try not to be so sensitive in future.
     
  20. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Guest

    Visit this site listed below; it's the MERCK MANUAL used worldwide by health professionals. I've posted the URL for anemias.

    Once it's displayed, then please do a search on the words INTRINSIC FACTOR for an explanation of the B12/intrinsic factor relationship with pernicious anemia. It's listed under the subheading Anemia Caused By B12 Deficiency.

    http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/CVMH...ic&word=factor&domain=www.merck.com#hl_anchor
     
Loading...
Loading...