Is Aluminium alloy good for nothing?

[lava]

Why do people think the price of carbon is going to skyrocket because the aerospace industry is using it? If anything it will cause carbon components and the associated production infrastructure to become more ubiquitous, thus driving the price down for all of us.

 

[nerdag]

Why do people think the price of carbon is going to skyrocket because the aerospace industry is using it? If anything it will cause carbon components and the associated production infrastructure to become more ubiquitous, thus driving the price down for all of us.

Simple. Limited supply.

n

 

[Phill P]

Demand goes up, prices go up, the chinese start making more aerospace quality carbon, prices go back down again.

 

[xxamr_corpxx]

Yep. The airbus might cause a short term spike but nothing too permanent.

 

[willocrew]

Carbon bikes are pricey and when you crash they crack and can't be banged with a hammer back into shape. For that reason, i think aluminium bikes are here to stay.

Unless of course if carbon becomes so rediculously cheap to mass produce... then thats another story.

Cheap and good.

For now.

 

[nerdag]

Carbon bikes are pricey and when you crash they crack and can't be banged with a hammer back into shape.

You can't do that with cracked aluminium. Once its cracked, you'll need to find a very highly skilled Al welder to redo the job for you, and unless the frame is a rare or custom job, that is most likely ot become uneconomical.

For bends or dents, they're much less likely to be of consequence than carbon, but repair is often out of the question becuase of cost. I for one wouldn't be confident riding an aluminium frame that needed hammering back into shape.

Steel is the bomb when it comes to repairability, though.

For that reason, i think aluminium bikes are here to stay.

There will always be a market for Al. Reasons have already been discussed at length.

n

 

[RickF]

Carbon bikes are pricey and when you crash they crack and can't be banged with a hammer back into shape. For that reason, i think aluminium bikes are here to stay.

And when one crashes a Corvette, it cannot be banged with a hammer back into shape either, but Corvettes (and other fiberglass body automobiles) keep selling. I agree that aluminum is here to stay, but aluminum cannot be banged with a hammer back into shape, either.

All of the paranoia about carbon bikes cracking is over played. Any frame will break when abused. There is no evidence that carbon fiber frames fail at a higher rate than steel, titanium, or aluminum. If they did fail at a higher rate, they would not be sold in the US. No company would take on that liability and face the massive lawsuits that would follow.

 

[bobbyOCR]

Unless of course if carbon becomes so rediculously cheap to mass produce... then thats another story.

Thats a reality. The truth is the cheap carbon is cra.....terrible. Some of it is dyed glass fibres, instead of carbon. And the manufacturing processes ake for a very flexy frame.

 

[garage sale GT]

It is possible of course that carbon is artificially cheap because companies invested in equipment to produce it in anticipation of carbon airplanes and windmills, then had to sell cheaply to bike makers while the real market was soft, at a price which recovers some of their costs but is much lower than they would have wanted.

This is just a scenario; I have no specific knowledge of it.

As for the original post, I would get an aluminum frame if it was properly designed and simply accept the fact that if it takes gunfire or falls out of an airplane I will have to replace it.

 

[KellyT]

Maybe if they slapped a layer of carbon over some Al... any experience with that technology?

No, my bikes have proper carbon, for the carbon bits, not cheap 'carbon look' components, which I know have no functional difference at all. Just fashion. I don't have any 'axe to grind' as I don't actually like carbon. I would have been quite happy to go all aluminium, but it's harder and harder to get top end bikes with no carbon at all.

I suspect, though I could always be wrong, that it's the road surface that gives me a good comparison of all alumimium versus alu / carbon frames. Here in the UK (particularly Scotland and even more particularly here) the roads are absolutley dreadfully surfaced / maintained. We can get a decent idea of Paris Roubaix type roads, without having to go to France (and put up with the French). On decent roads, all of my bikes feel more or less the same. Head up to the backroads with degraded wearing courses and open textured asphalt covered in old trech cuts and patches, and it's a different story altogether. Then the little differences make for a real benefit, and a lot less discomfort.

 

[sogood]

And when one crashes a Corvette, it cannot be banged with a hammer back into shape either, but Corvettes (and other fiberglass body automobiles) keep selling. I agree that aluminum is here to stay, but aluminum cannot be banged with a hammer back into shape, either.

That's not a good example. Car panels don't have any structural functions while bike frame is the primarily structural. A better comparison of the car panel is bar tape...

 

[garage sale GT]

That's not a good example. Car panels don't have any structural functions while bike frame is the primarily structural. A better comparison of the car panel is bar tape...

How about....fenders?

 

[Phill P]

In most cases I'm aware of car body panels are replaced not "banged back into shape". The material is too thin and streetches when deformed so the old shape can't be regained.
So fibre body panels are just more expensive to replace, and are there to save weight and be cool, while retaining some resistance to damage.

 

[sogood]

In most cases I'm aware of car body panels are replaced not "banged back into shape". The material is too thin and streetches when deformed so the old shape can't be regained.
So fibre body panels are just more expensive to replace, and are there to save weight and be cool, while retaining some resistance to damage.

It's a manual labour cost issue. For smaller dents, panel beating is still cheaper than panel replacement. As for aluminium or carbon panels, replacement is pretty much the only way to go.

 

[TribesMan]

There is only one thing I would like to say about carbon fiber...

I'm glad that I found this crack while cleaning my bike, and not while racing 80km/h down the hill.

 

[531Aussie]

There is only one thing I would like to say about carbon fiber...
http://www2.arnes.si/~mbabic/LAMA Carbon/DSCF1003_1.JPG

I'm glad that I found this crack while cleaning my bike, and not while racing 80km/h down the hill.

I'm as cautious as anyone, but are you sure that's not just lacquer movement around the crown/blade join? I'd sand it off to see

 

[matagi]

There is only one thing I would like to say about carbon fiber...

http://www2.arnes.si/~mbabic/LAMA Carbon/DSCF1003_1.JPG

I'm glad that I found this crack while cleaning my bike, and not while racing 80km/h down the hill.

Looks like crazing in the resin, but hard to tell from just a pic.

Oh yes, and you can panel beat aluminium, it's just a very highly skilled technique - not something your average panel shop would be capable of.

 

[TribesMan]

After I found this crack I first checked if it is just surface crack... I removed the wheel and squeezed both ends of the fork together. The crack widened and there was some cracking noise...

I'm no carbon expert but I think this is not just lacquer.

 

[Phill P]

Well spotted...think I might go give my bike a good clean this weekend as well now......

 

[sogood]

I'm glad that I found this crack while cleaning my bike, and not while racing 80km/h down the hill.

Gosh, and it's a CF fork from a good manufacturer. Any history of hard impact?