Is America already a fundamentalist State?
- Thread starter Carrera
- Start date
Bro Deal said:
Would you say the same thing if someone else had been in charge? Maybe not, but I can't help thinking that you'd probably tell me that I wasn't qualified to offer such criticism, so keep my mouth shut and let "the anointed" do their jobs and tell me how to run my life.
For what it's worth, I felt the same way about President Clinton. He wasn't my candidate of choice, but since he won his elections both times, I went on with my life. For my trouble, I was told that I was poor, uneducated, and easily led.
The problem with Germany was that no one was willing to criticize Adolf ******. It would not have taken much to dispose of him, especially early on.
As far as my own feelings about President Bush go, I think he handled his first term better than the second term. He put some responsibility into the hands of some people that started to believe their own press.
I got into this post because Carerra expressed an opinion which I'd never heard before and found interesting. This post and his others were reasoned and well-written. It's too bad the two of you (Wurm and Bro Deal) can't do the same thing. Instead, you come off like a couple of embittered lefties with chips on your shoulders and axes to grind. After all, you can't understand how your superior "super-candidates" lost out in both elections to someone who's so stupid and incompetent.
Carrera, Let's say you are playing football with your child in your back yard and the child gets his leg broken.
You take him to the doctor and have it attended to butthe next day a social worker shows up at your door with a cop and places your child into protective custody because he is being exposed to a violent sport ,getting him injured and that could lead to aggressive tendencies.
Parents should be allowed to raise their children and they will screw up. We do not need more government control and the world is not perfect and never will be.
You take him to the doctor and have it attended to butthe next day a social worker shows up at your door with a cop and places your child into protective custody because he is being exposed to a violent sport ,getting him injured and that could lead to aggressive tendencies.
Parents should be allowed to raise their children and they will screw up. We do not need more government control and the world is not perfect and never will be.
So it's his underlings that are mainly to blame? I've asked you more specific questions as to what your alleged disagreement with Bu$hCo is, but you offer up only vague platitudes.WilliamK1974 said:
I understand quite well how Gore and Kerry "lost" their elections - it's called election fraud in Fla. '00 with a right-wing dominated Supreme Court usurping a state's legal right to a full recount, and Ohio '04, among other places. No "axes to grind" here except for justice and the rule of law.WilliamK1974 said:
Now why is it that you're not interested in the same thing?
I do believe that if you had criticised ****** the way that many have criticised GWB they ended up dead or worse yet their families. I have not heard anyone who has been eliminated by our President except perhaps for terrorists. The President who seemed to have the most confidants "mysteriously" end up dead was Bill Clinton. I'd have to look them up but I believe there were about 8 of them. If I were of the "Wacko" ilk I would be blaming them on Clinton which admittedly some "wackos" did. I brought that up only because people seem to want to compare the current administration with the Nazis. Our federal government was given limited powers by our constitution. Since its inception we have given the federal government far more influence on our lives than our founders originally intended. One power our federal government was to have was to protect us from foreign invaders. We can legitimately argue whether Bush's invasion of Iraq was necessary to protect us from invaders, however, it is a much more appropriate use of federal power than to tell us how to raise our children, provide for individual welfare or even provide health care. All those things per our constitution should be a province of the states. Each time we relinquish responsibility for our individual lives and actions we give others power over us. I find it interesting that those who would most like to have our government regulate our guns are the ones who are most likely to be upset about the wiretapping of suspected terrorists. You may now begin calling me names.Bro Deal said:
I've been asked by some if I have kids myself. The fact is I don't. I've looked after friend's kids in the past while they had a night out and I've also taught classes of kids.
Obviously, I understand there are times when you have to yell at kids and (more rarely) smack as a last resort. But that would be in a case of, say, discovering your small son had pushed a schoolgirl to the floor and threw her bag into the river, or something like that. You know, something serious.
Having said that I still agree with the boxer Chris Eubank. In his book he shared that in Jamaica his dad would hit him with a strap but the Eubanks themselves never smacked. Instead, Chris only needed to raise his voice and that way he stamped his authority. He'd have the kids write lines or stay in their rooms if they misbehaved seriously.
This is a far cry from wacking children with a huge paddle as Biblical parenting often endorses (and for the most petty misdeeds).
Obviously, I understand there are times when you have to yell at kids and (more rarely) smack as a last resort. But that would be in a case of, say, discovering your small son had pushed a schoolgirl to the floor and threw her bag into the river, or something like that. You know, something serious.
Having said that I still agree with the boxer Chris Eubank. In his book he shared that in Jamaica his dad would hit him with a strap but the Eubanks themselves never smacked. Instead, Chris only needed to raise his voice and that way he stamped his authority. He'd have the kids write lines or stay in their rooms if they misbehaved seriously.
This is a far cry from wacking children with a huge paddle as Biblical parenting often endorses (and for the most petty misdeeds).
jhuskey said:
My point is that each case musts be individual. You cannot pass a law that says whacked out fanatics will be dealt with severly.
It is a nice concept to think about but there again who make that call as to who crosses the line.
Definition of a nympho maniac, someone that wants sex one more time than you do.
It is a nice concept to think about but there again who make that call as to who crosses the line.
Definition of a nympho maniac, someone that wants sex one more time than you do.
I dish it out and, therfore, I'm obliged to take some criticism as well. I definitely wouldn't be posting this sort of topic on the cycling section of the site but I figure, hell, this is the Soapbox is it not? A rant is a rant and, thus, I ranted and enjoy hearing others rant back. Otherwise life is boring.
The title was slightly tongue in cheek - a deliberate attempt at black humour. Of course I understand the U.S. isn't really a kind of backwater plain with Hill-Billy Bible bashers. I'm aware New York and Washington are as sophisticated as Paris or Moscow. Yes, there is a problem with fundamentalism in the U.S. but, sure, this is mainly around the Bible belt are -where Bush's vote was strongest. Yes, my post was serious in as much as I do disagree with the fundamentalist movement and Biblical upbringings but bear in mind we Brits have a kind of sense of humour which is why the title was so sensational. If you've ever seen Jonathon Ross on T.V. over here you'd be aware of that. He's interviewed American women before (even Madonna) and they couldn't figure out the humour.
The title was slightly tongue in cheek - a deliberate attempt at black humour. Of course I understand the U.S. isn't really a kind of backwater plain with Hill-Billy Bible bashers. I'm aware New York and Washington are as sophisticated as Paris or Moscow. Yes, there is a problem with fundamentalism in the U.S. but, sure, this is mainly around the Bible belt are -where Bush's vote was strongest. Yes, my post was serious in as much as I do disagree with the fundamentalist movement and Biblical upbringings but bear in mind we Brits have a kind of sense of humour which is why the title was so sensational. If you've ever seen Jonathon Ross on T.V. over here you'd be aware of that. He's interviewed American women before (even Madonna) and they couldn't figure out the humour.
WilliamK1974 said:
Please define 'fundamentalist Christianity'. Also, please explain why you are opposed to evangelical meetings.Carrera said:
I have seen a case where corporal punishment was taken way too far. I was somewhere between 10 and 12 years old, and it showed up on a segment of "60 Minutes" or a similar journalism show.
The people involved were pretty bad-looking southerners. They had bad teeth and lived in a dilapidated home, which might have been a trailer. They had the type of southern accent that sounds like it came from the set of "Deliverance." I can't remember how many children they had, but it was at least 5. The oldest child might have been 11, and the youngest was 3 or 4. Don't hold me to that as it has been a long time.
The problem was that they spanked the children for the least little infractions. We're talking about stuff that a raised voice might have been overkill. When asked why, the mother stated in her white-trash voice that it said in the Bible that they were to avoid sparing the rod so as not spoil the child, and maybe that in doing so they would save their children from a life of sin.
The situation was so bad that the older children were expressing resentful thoughts, and the youngest were afraid of the parents. If one of the parents called them, they would start crying. It was like seeing a mistreated dog cow at the sound of its cruel master's voice. If they didn't stop crying, they'd get a swat across the bum.
I can't remember the resolution to the story, but it seems like the "60 Minutes" staff arranged for them to attend family counseling so as to find better ways to maintain discipline and repair the damage that had been done to the family relationships. It was a sad tale that I hope was resolved favorably.
The paddle man that we keep mentioning made sure his paddles said "Not In Anger." I doubt he would endorse the type of treatment.
The German-style ban on CP is the sort of government meddling that for the most part wouldn't be tolerated over here. Just because I would disagree with a ban doesn't mean that I'm sitting over here waiting for the chance to beat the holy hell out of my kids. I would rather make the decision about appropriate discipline myself rather than having some government bureaucrat tell me what I could and could not do.
-Bill
The people involved were pretty bad-looking southerners. They had bad teeth and lived in a dilapidated home, which might have been a trailer. They had the type of southern accent that sounds like it came from the set of "Deliverance." I can't remember how many children they had, but it was at least 5. The oldest child might have been 11, and the youngest was 3 or 4. Don't hold me to that as it has been a long time.
The problem was that they spanked the children for the least little infractions. We're talking about stuff that a raised voice might have been overkill. When asked why, the mother stated in her white-trash voice that it said in the Bible that they were to avoid sparing the rod so as not spoil the child, and maybe that in doing so they would save their children from a life of sin.
The situation was so bad that the older children were expressing resentful thoughts, and the youngest were afraid of the parents. If one of the parents called them, they would start crying. It was like seeing a mistreated dog cow at the sound of its cruel master's voice. If they didn't stop crying, they'd get a swat across the bum.
I can't remember the resolution to the story, but it seems like the "60 Minutes" staff arranged for them to attend family counseling so as to find better ways to maintain discipline and repair the damage that had been done to the family relationships. It was a sad tale that I hope was resolved favorably.
The paddle man that we keep mentioning made sure his paddles said "Not In Anger." I doubt he would endorse the type of treatment.
The German-style ban on CP is the sort of government meddling that for the most part wouldn't be tolerated over here. Just because I would disagree with a ban doesn't mean that I'm sitting over here waiting for the chance to beat the holy hell out of my kids. I would rather make the decision about appropriate discipline myself rather than having some government bureaucrat tell me what I could and could not do.
-Bill
Carrera said:
"Not to put words in your mouth, but I think a great deal of your concern comes from the fact that Americans tend to be more outspoken about their faith."
I haven't encountered anythingf like that on this particular website. Even so, other websites have been more worrying. On one of them, we're discussing topics such as the sub 4 minute mile and someone will post an "Amen!" somewhere. I mean, God is always brought into the postings or someone will be going to pray for such and such a situation. Even my girlfriend in Carolina once let slip she would pray for me. I asked her why? I imagine I'm the same as Lance Armstrong in as much as I will do what I have to do to solve a particular problem as opposed to praying e.t.c. That's just the way I am.
"But for an individual like myself to start asking strangers about God might be seen as pushy and nosy. Some would be outraged and deeply offended."
As I say, I've never encountered any real problem on this site. Wolfix is religious, Limerickman is religious and I think Colorado Rider. None of these have posted "Amens" or "Praise bes!" during discussions and so I'm aware they simply have their own set of private beliefs that I certainly don't set out to ridicule. Inject a bit of sense of humour, yes, but only with respect to snake-handling, paddle-bearing radicals.
Besides, unlike Lance I'm not an atheist. I believe God may exist but I disbelieve religious conceptions of God are really so accurate whether that be Judaism, Islam or Christianity. I also dislike the idea of religion and politics merging in any way.
"I'm not aware of any such structure being repurposed for religious use."
This was on ABC news.
"Like anything else, those who make the promise don't always follow through, but what's wrong with trying."
Hmmm, but why do virtually all religions (excluding the Raelian movement) seem to think of sex per se as being "ify" or suspect? Science says otherwise. We know that males are biologically programmed to stray and, if you like, distribute genetic traits while women tend to be more stable and family minded (likewise selecting partners on basis of social dominance in society). The Raelian movement was the only belief system that seemed to me to be free and not hung up.
"For better or worse, it's unlikely that Evolution could be eliminated from public school textbooks. Attempts to do so would be met with hosility from special interest groups such as the ACLU."
Intelligent design seems a plausible theory. However, by "intelligent design" I don't mean Old Testament descriptions of a 7 day creation of the world. Besides, I agree with evolution but not specifically with the conversion of chimps into humans.
"Terrifying stage dramas based on Hell- this is another homeschool thing, isn't it?"
I think this was featured on a documentary featuring Ron Liddle, a journalist over here who frequently goes over to the U.S. (or to fundamentalist or Jewish schools in the U.K.) and then has a real go at creationism and religion in general. His most common line is to look a pastor or cleric straight in the eye and say, " You're an educated, intelligent man. Do you seriously believe the world was created in seven days?" One headmaster in the U.K. who was running a Biblical school simply shrugged, went a little red and replied, "Yes!"
I think it was Liddle who sat through an American stage production on hellfire and brimstone. Likewise, the American pastor seemed to have no idea how ridiculous Liddle was making him out to seem. The kids were sitting down terrified and pale while Liddle asked the pastor, "Is it not dangerous to terrify these children and teach about hell?" The pastor replied, "No, if it means I can save their souls!"
"I don't have any basis for this, but it would stand to reason that far more people who were spanked severely grew up to be well-balanced individuals without the need for the services of a dominaitrix."
It depends on how the individual copes with aggression and humiliation. In the case of Lance Armstrong who was paddled as a youngster, the book Tour De Force makes the claim it caused Armstrong to become aggressive on the bike. Psychoanalysing Armstong, the writer notes how Lance rejected anyone who tried to control his actions, including his mother's subsequent partners whom she dumped if Lance didn't like them or take to them. Many coaches were likewise dumped.
"You live across the pond, and if you were to ever visit us, it's not likely that you would catch fundamentalism even if someone sneezed on you."
My mother and brother went to Florida and enjoyed it. My dad has been to New York State. My feeling is I'd enjoy New York. Maybe California as well. I wouldn't fancy Texas.
I haven't encountered anythingf like that on this particular website. Even so, other websites have been more worrying. On one of them, we're discussing topics such as the sub 4 minute mile and someone will post an "Amen!" somewhere. I mean, God is always brought into the postings or someone will be going to pray for such and such a situation. Even my girlfriend in Carolina once let slip she would pray for me. I asked her why? I imagine I'm the same as Lance Armstrong in as much as I will do what I have to do to solve a particular problem as opposed to praying e.t.c. That's just the way I am.
"But for an individual like myself to start asking strangers about God might be seen as pushy and nosy. Some would be outraged and deeply offended."
As I say, I've never encountered any real problem on this site. Wolfix is religious, Limerickman is religious and I think Colorado Rider. None of these have posted "Amens" or "Praise bes!" during discussions and so I'm aware they simply have their own set of private beliefs that I certainly don't set out to ridicule. Inject a bit of sense of humour, yes, but only with respect to snake-handling, paddle-bearing radicals.
Besides, unlike Lance I'm not an atheist. I believe God may exist but I disbelieve religious conceptions of God are really so accurate whether that be Judaism, Islam or Christianity. I also dislike the idea of religion and politics merging in any way.
"I'm not aware of any such structure being repurposed for religious use."
This was on ABC news.
"Like anything else, those who make the promise don't always follow through, but what's wrong with trying."
Hmmm, but why do virtually all religions (excluding the Raelian movement) seem to think of sex per se as being "ify" or suspect? Science says otherwise. We know that males are biologically programmed to stray and, if you like, distribute genetic traits while women tend to be more stable and family minded (likewise selecting partners on basis of social dominance in society). The Raelian movement was the only belief system that seemed to me to be free and not hung up.
"For better or worse, it's unlikely that Evolution could be eliminated from public school textbooks. Attempts to do so would be met with hosility from special interest groups such as the ACLU."
Intelligent design seems a plausible theory. However, by "intelligent design" I don't mean Old Testament descriptions of a 7 day creation of the world. Besides, I agree with evolution but not specifically with the conversion of chimps into humans.
"Terrifying stage dramas based on Hell- this is another homeschool thing, isn't it?"
I think this was featured on a documentary featuring Ron Liddle, a journalist over here who frequently goes over to the U.S. (or to fundamentalist or Jewish schools in the U.K.) and then has a real go at creationism and religion in general. His most common line is to look a pastor or cleric straight in the eye and say, " You're an educated, intelligent man. Do you seriously believe the world was created in seven days?" One headmaster in the U.K. who was running a Biblical school simply shrugged, went a little red and replied, "Yes!"
I think it was Liddle who sat through an American stage production on hellfire and brimstone. Likewise, the American pastor seemed to have no idea how ridiculous Liddle was making him out to seem. The kids were sitting down terrified and pale while Liddle asked the pastor, "Is it not dangerous to terrify these children and teach about hell?" The pastor replied, "No, if it means I can save their souls!"
"I don't have any basis for this, but it would stand to reason that far more people who were spanked severely grew up to be well-balanced individuals without the need for the services of a dominaitrix."
It depends on how the individual copes with aggression and humiliation. In the case of Lance Armstrong who was paddled as a youngster, the book Tour De Force makes the claim it caused Armstrong to become aggressive on the bike. Psychoanalysing Armstong, the writer notes how Lance rejected anyone who tried to control his actions, including his mother's subsequent partners whom she dumped if Lance didn't like them or take to them. Many coaches were likewise dumped.
"You live across the pond, and if you were to ever visit us, it's not likely that you would catch fundamentalism even if someone sneezed on you."
My mother and brother went to Florida and enjoyed it. My dad has been to New York State. My feeling is I'd enjoy New York. Maybe California as well. I wouldn't fancy Texas.
WilliamK1974 said:
I've not seen Jonathon Ross over here, but would probably like him. At one point, we could sometimes see "So Graham Norton," but I didn't like it that much. I enjoy stuff like Monty Python, some of the so-called Brit-coms like "Are You Being Served?," and the more recent show "Little Britain." They're all kind of lowbrow, but the English seem to do that so well. Even the "high-minded" William Shakespeare had lowbrow elements to his plays. The tradition of cross-dressing in British humor is also funny to me. That doesn't always play well over here, so it's not common. That could be why I find it so funny.
Carrera said:
I must admit the tongue in cheek aspect of the original post went over my head. However, three of my favorite movies were British comedies, Sean of the Dead, The Full Monty, and (I am not sure of the name of this last one) The Rat (about a working man who likes his Guiness and mysteriously turns into a white rat). Thanks for the "Bloody Rant"!Carrera said:
cheapie said:what's a dog cow?
It's based on an expression. I don't know where it comes from. Around here, you might hear someone talking about a cowed dog. What that means is that the dog is always acting like it might be punished, with its tail tucked under and its head hung down low. Some will go so far as to roll over and **** themselves. It's a sad situation and usually a sign of animal abuse.
Wurm said:
Why should I answer this? It's pretty plain that you're just looking for reasons to disagree with me, and that anything I could bring up would somehow be unacceptable. I don't feel like wasting my time.
Wurm said:
That doesn't even deserve the dignity of a comment...
cheapie said:know. you were using cow as a verb and i was pretending to think it was some new sort of animal. dog cow.
Heh, I couldn't tell if you knew or not.
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