Is Chapel/Church st where all the usless drivers go?



Experience. Where we all get our opinions from.

I have opinions, I express them. For me the proof's in the pudding. I
used to get stressed, I used to scream and shout, I used to get worked
up.

St Euan the Beatifically Enhanced. BTW, the homily runs "The proof of the pudding's in the eating". Sorry to get all pedantic on yo ass, but I've eaten bitumen pudding on about 5 seperate occasions because of careless motorists. So the proof of the pudding is that a significant minority of car drivers don't give a flying f#%& about anyone who can't hurt them back, their attitude causing me, and quite a few other cyclists both here and elsewhere, to lose skin, confidence, bone wholeness, bike functionality and money thereby. I ride defensively, or my particular version of the same, but I will not put up with and silently condone what is basically criminal negligence - i.e. operating machinery in a way that is likely to cause someone to be injured and killed. Like it or not, our police/legal system as it pertains to road travel is still, and until the oil runs out, will be heavily biased in favour of the structurally selfish mode of travel that is the car. So how do you get around it? Smile and wave (except ironically)?

This is my theory:

Motorists are like children - all this power and speed being frustrated by petty things like the safety and security of others. All those silly laws that don't apply to ME. MEMEMEMEMEMEME!!! So, if the parents (law) aren't going to set boundaries, or enforce them correctly, you don't indulge them. You tell them loudly and firmly what they are doing is wrong. You bring it forcibly to their attention. You keep on doing it in a rational, balanced LOUD manner, and soon the less self-centred of them will see what they are doing wrong. This is how all the experienced teachers, parents et c. say you should do it. You can't just keep on ignoring bad behaviour, hoping it will go away. For your own sanity and safety.

Now I ride defensively and if someone causes me to brake, so what? I
remind myself that I'm enjoying my ride to work, I'm doing myself good
and I'm generally having a whole heap more fun than the motorists are.

Life's really too short to get worked up about it. And it's certainly
too short to get in to a flame war.

You deal with your anger how you see fit. Me, I'll carry on being happy
and choosing the battles I can win. Getting in to a debate with a
motorist who gives you a "what are you doing there" look is not going to
achieve anything.
--
Regards
Euan

Who's flaming? I thought we were discussing, which is what these newsgroupy things are for, aren't they? I just don't like "Holier than Thou" when it comes to people's instinctive reactions to a real and immediate threat to personal safety. It's non-rational. Yes, we have to learn to moderate our beserker bicycle rage. But it's no good turning the other cheek to mechanised and systematised death. Which is what the road system is capable of, if you aren't in a Humvee. No remorse. No compassion. Little if any justice or compensation for wrongs done.

I can see that you have worked hard on the "I am calm. I am serene." thing, but hoons in F250s just don't give a **** about what your state of mind is. They just don't care enough about not running you over. A society that allows its most vulnerable to become victims, either by ignoring the problem or letting people behave carelessly as their primary right and privilege, is just a cesspit of unacknowledged brutality.

And getting into a debate with a motorist is PRECISELY what you should be doing, because you have the overwhelming moral RIGHT and DUTY to tell him (usually him) in diplomatic terms, that he (she) is an arrogant, selfish irresponsible and careless GIT/****/****HEAD (tension release: try something milder) for not driving competently, and providing suggestions as to how. It could be your 12 year old son/daughter/niece/nephew in their close proximity next, with fewer smarts and skills to get themselves out of trouble. "Choosing battles you can win"? Isn't that what Chamberlain said when he came back from Berlin that time?

M "Don't give bullies and incompetents leverage, such as the Wehrmacht, or V8 motors" H
 
>>>>> "mfhor" == mfhor <[email protected]> writes:

mfhor> So how do you get around it? Smile and wave (except
mfhor> ironically)?

Generally that's exactly what I do. If the individual the smile and
wave is directed at is a decent sort, then they'll know they're in the
wrong so there's no need to press the point. If on the other hand the
individual is a **** head then getting upset is only going to egg him on
and smiling and waving will likely infuriate them in to impotence.

mfhor> Who's flaming?

In my opinion, you are.

Comments like "St Euan the Beatific" are comments directed at me and
not the topic. I may have mis-interpreted your meaning however such
comments seem mocking, which is not nice.

Flaming is generally defined as attacking the person rather than the
argument. Mocking language is an attack. By all means debate the
topic but leave out the mocking.

mfhor> I just don't like "Holier than Thou" when it comes to
mfhor> people's instinctive reactions to a real and immediate threat
mfhor> to personal safety.

I'm agnostic so that's a bit hard.

mfhor> And getting into a debate with a motorist is PRECISELY what
mfhor> you should be doing, because you have the overwhelming moral
mfhor> RIGHT and DUTY to tell him (usually him) in diplomatic terms,
mfhor> that he (she) is an arrogant, selfish irresponsible and
mfhor> careless GIT/****/****HEAD

Which is kind of the point. Even diplomatically doing that is going to
get their back up. Everyone's the best driver in the world and they're
not going to admit they're wrong. Stick to law, stick to facts, be calm
in the face of their hostility and you'll stand much better chances of
getting your point across.

I did stipulate a motorists who gives you that "what the **** are you
doing there" look. That does not equate to motorists carte blanche.

mfhor> "Choosing battles you can win"? Isn't that what Chamberlain
mfhor> said when he came back from Berlin that time?

Actually I think it's derived from Sun Tzu's Art of War. Could be wrong
there.
--
Regards
Euan
 
I did stipulate a motorists who gives you that "what the **** are you
doing there" look. That does not equate to motorists carte blanche.

mfhor> "Choosing battles you can win"? Isn't that what Chamberlain
mfhor> said when he came back from Berlin that time?

Actually I think it's derived from Sun Tzu's Art of War. Could be wrong
there.
--
Regards
Euan

The reason I 'mocked' you, and it wasn't malicious, was that I find the pacifist line in bike on car confrontations to be as unproductive as the overly aggressive one. Bullies will just keep kicking you until you make them stop, by one means or another. The people who exhibit antisocial behavior in cars just reveal their true nature, i.e., cluelessness and self-centredness, or in some cases downright evil, that they manage to conceal in everyday life. Do you want to be in hospital because someone isn't really grown up enough to manage the machine they're in charge of? You may see things differently if you ever have the misfortune to end up in Intensive Care because someone decided to test their flashily immature, or unthinking lack of, road skills on you or someone you love.

If you want to ride a bike in Melbourne, or Sydney, or any one of a number of cities excluding anywhere Dutch, anywhere Scandinavian, you've chosen your battle, right then and there. You just have to decide how you can win it with no loss of life of limb. Me, I've had a close friend and a close relative killed while riding, and they were both experienced, mature and proficient cyclists. They both did lots of k's, which raises the odds significantly. It kind of gets personal after that. Unrepentant Idiots don't deserve driving privileges, or the benefit of any doubt. They deserve to be told that they are dangerous fools, and made to face and make amends for their actions. If it bruises their ego, well, it shouldn't be so tied up with a piece of metal and plastic, which can be used very easily as a weapon.

M "battle-scarred" H
 
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 09:40:28 GMT, "DJ" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Yes, I'm definately with Euan on this one Torgo
>
>You have probably made these drivers more cyclist unfriendly than ever
>before due to your actions.


Then again, you've got to ask yourself if you really want friends like
that, that don't care if they kill you just as long as they're not
inconvenienced.



---
Cheers

PeterC

[Rushing headlong: out of control - and there ain't no stopping]
[and there's nothing you can do about it at all]
 
"hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "mfhor" <[email protected]
>> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>> For instance: "OPEN YOUR EYES AND USE YOUR (expletive
>> optional) WING MIRRORS - THAT"S WHAT THEY"RE FOR!!!"

>
> I want THIS on a shirt :)


It needs to be shorter:

"USE YOUR ****ING MIRRORS!"

would fit.

>> the long run than "YOU ****ING ******** SHITBRAIN" even though to

>
> This one will be fine too ;-)


It kinda touches the inner poet in each of us, eh?

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"DRS" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It needs to be shorter:
>
> "USE YOUR ****ING MIRRORS!"
>
> would fit.


OTOH, "LOOK IN YOUR ****ING MIRROR!" might actually get a response from
the more self-obsessed...

--
Shane Stanley
 
"mfhor" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> [email protected] Wrote:
> > Damned right it's over the top. Your actions are also criminal. Look
> > to your own actions before you dare to criticize others.
> >
> > Behave irresponsibly and you generally get irresponsible treatment
> > meted
> > out to you. Grow a little bit of tolerance, road awareness and get
> > thee
> > down to an anger management course for good measure.

<SNIP>

I find yelling "use your ****ing mirrors", "look where you are going", "give
way" or "are you trying to kill me, ********" are my favorite things to
yell.

P
 
Paulus I find yelling "use your ****ing mirrors" said:
yesterday it was "Great Mate" at the 4WD blocking the bikelane across the upramp exit as he waited for his gap in the traffic.
 
aeek said:
Paulus I find yelling "use your ****ing mirrors" said:
yesterday it was "Great Mate" at the 4WD blocking the bikelane across the upramp exit as he waited for his gap in the traffic.

tried that trick that someone here mentioned...

opening the rear door, which pisses em off no -end cos they gotta get out and close it. Only to be used when an escape route is iminent.

i think its a case of horses-for-courses.
The calm-and-controlled approach works best on the 'olds' and people who look like they might be half-civilised.
Makin em look stooopid (not hard) is better for your Ute-drivin tradey and goin the panel-thump works best on anything expensive :D
 
"DRS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It needs to be shorter:
> "USE YOUR ****ING MIRRORS!"
> would fit.


There could be a whole range:
"USE YOUR ****ING INDICATORS!"
"USE YOUR ****ING BRAIN!"
"USE YOUR ****ING EYES!"

> >> the long run than "YOU ****ING ******** SHITBRAIN" even though to

> >
> > This one will be fine too ;-)

>
> It kinda touches the inner poet in each of us, eh?


I can picture Shakespeare sitting down scribbling:
"thou ****ing ******* turdeater"
"thou flame-grilled muscus release-splattered ****stick"
"thou ****ing ******** shitbrain!"
"Yes! That's it!"

hippy
"let it all out.. that's it.. "
 
"Paulus" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I find yelling "use your ****ing mirrors", "look where you are going",

"give
> way" or "are you trying to kill me, ********" are my favorite things to
> yell.


Problem is, a lot will say "yes!" to that last one. :-S

hippy
 
hippy said:
"Paulus" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> I find yelling "use your ****ing mirrors", "look where you are going",

"give
> way" or "are you trying to kill me, ********" are my favorite things to
> yell.


Problem is, a lot will say "yes!" to that last one. :-S

hippy
So my theory is correct again, thou its in brighton this time.
Said driver Reverses out of park in to on coming traffic, me a bus and some other cars.
"yor mirror also sees other people not just your mug...." is roughly what came out, running behind today woke up later than usual so a good sprint to work this morning...
NO Agro, just some loud words to embarras..
 
Torgo said:
So my theory is correct again, thou its in brighton this time.
Said driver Reverses out of park in to on coming traffic, me a bus and some other cars.
"yor mirror also sees other people not just your mug...." is roughly what came out, running behind today woke up later than usual so a good sprint to work this morning...
NO Agro, just some loud words to embarras..
Ah Grasshopper, you are becoming wise . . .

Next we learn the Agent Smith (or was it Jones?) trick of stomping on their bonnets REAL hard . . .

M "Citylink is just monkeys playing at being in the Matrix" H
 
"hippy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "DRS" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> It needs to be shorter:
>> "USE YOUR ****ING MIRRORS!"
>> would fit.

>
> There could be a whole range:
> "USE YOUR ****ING INDICATORS!"
> "USE YOUR ****ING BRAIN!"
> "USE YOUR ****ING EYES!"


I sense the conception of a cottage industry.

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
 
mfhor said:
Ah Grasshopper, you are becoming wise . . .

Next we learn the Agent Smith (or was it Jones?) trick of stomping on their bonnets REAL hard . . .

M "Citylink is just monkeys playing at being in the Matrix" H
no remember i have that one don pat already, trying the soft attack (david carradine style) now...
I think i was more worried about the bus than anything else.
 
Torgo said:
no remember i have that one don pat already, trying the soft attack (david carradine style) now...
I think i was more worried about the bus than anything else.

Being worried about buses is a very healthy thing to be worried about. Especially the ones that have the stealth engine in the back, and sound like a ute until they are right on top of you, roaring diesel particulates straight into your lungs. Oh, you mean the cartwheeling bus in the Matrix. Yes, time to break out the "run away" instruction book.

M "No arguing with that sucker" H
 
On 19 Sep 2004 01:56:12 GMT, Baka Dasai <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>My solution is to never ride in the "door zone", regardless of whether
>there is a bike lane there. It's just too dangerous.



Very wise. An uncle of my first wife opened the door to his new Ford
Anglia only to have it completly removed by a passing cyclist who
fortunately was not injured. He had the door and post repaired and did
exactly the same thing the day he got it back. Be warned some people
never learn.


Regards
Bruce
 

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