T
T
Ted Bennett
Guest
R
Ronald
Guest
I thought the question was "Is it possible to live in America without a gun?"
"Todd Tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
"Todd Tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
C
Chris Zacho The Wheelman
Guest
Group: rec.bicycles.tech Date: Mon, Nov 28, 2005, 10:15pm (EST+6) From:
[email protected] (Ronald)
>I thought the question was "Is it possible
>to live in America without a gun?"
Yes it is.
Chris "cordite free" Zacho
- -
Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"
Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
[email protected] (Ronald)
>I thought the question was "Is it possible
>to live in America without a gun?"
Yes it is.
Chris "cordite free" Zacho
- -
Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"
"May you have the winds at your back,
And a really low gear for the hills!"
Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
K
Ken M
Guest
Todd Tracy wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
It is a myth that you can't live in America without owning a MV. I
often think that it was probably started by some MV company in an
effort to boost sales. Perhaps this happened around the time of the oil
embargo of the 70's. Anyway, I have not owned an MV in over 5 years and
I get alone fine without one.
Ken
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
It is a myth that you can't live in America without owning a MV. I
often think that it was probably started by some MV company in an
effort to boost sales. Perhaps this happened around the time of the oil
embargo of the 70's. Anyway, I have not owned an MV in over 5 years and
I get alone fine without one.
Ken
R
Rich Clark
Guest
It's certainly possible to live in the city without a car. I was 25 before I
even got a driver's license.
It's hard to live in the suburbs with kids without a car. I know it's
possible, but it's *hard.* It was too hard for me, when we moved to the
suburbs, bought a house, started a family.
The only thing harder was gaining weight, getting out of shape, developing
diabetes, and having a heart attack.
I still have the car, but mostly it sits there. The nest is empty again, and
I'm thinking about moving back into the city.
RichC
even got a driver's license.
It's hard to live in the suburbs with kids without a car. I know it's
possible, but it's *hard.* It was too hard for me, when we moved to the
suburbs, bought a house, started a family.
The only thing harder was gaining weight, getting out of shape, developing
diabetes, and having a heart attack.
I still have the car, but mostly it sits there. The nest is empty again, and
I'm thinking about moving back into the city.
RichC
G
Gooserider
Guest
"Ronald" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I thought the question was "Is it possible to live in America without a
>gun?"
>
No, that question is "Is it wise to live in America without a gun?".
Especially if you live in Camden, NJ, Houston, LA, New Orleans, etc...
news:[email protected]...
>I thought the question was "Is it possible to live in America without a
>gun?"
>
No, that question is "Is it wise to live in America without a gun?".
Especially if you live in Camden, NJ, Houston, LA, New Orleans, etc...
R
rwwff
Guest
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 18:04:26 -0500, Rich Clark wrote:
> It's hard to live in the suburbs with kids without a car. I know it's
> possible, but it's *hard.* It was too hard for me, when we moved to the
> suburbs, bought a house, started a family.
I think the kid does it to you, whether you are in the suburbs or in the
city. There are just to many situations that commonly arise where you
need to move the kid 10 miles in 20 minutes.
Without kid though... I think its doable in both places, but individual
requirements can prevent it from being realistic.
> The only thing harder was gaining weight, getting out of shape, developing
> diabetes, and having a heart attack.
Doesn't take long does it. I was out of it for a little more than a year,
and managed to increase my heart rate 20 ticks, caused the doc to quiz me
on blood pressure, put twenty nuisance pounds around the middle, and made
20 mile bike trips harder than 80 mile trips used to be.
> It's hard to live in the suburbs with kids without a car. I know it's
> possible, but it's *hard.* It was too hard for me, when we moved to the
> suburbs, bought a house, started a family.
I think the kid does it to you, whether you are in the suburbs or in the
city. There are just to many situations that commonly arise where you
need to move the kid 10 miles in 20 minutes.
Without kid though... I think its doable in both places, but individual
requirements can prevent it from being realistic.
> The only thing harder was gaining weight, getting out of shape, developing
> diabetes, and having a heart attack.
Doesn't take long does it. I was out of it for a little more than a year,
and managed to increase my heart rate 20 ticks, caused the doc to quiz me
on blood pressure, put twenty nuisance pounds around the middle, and made
20 mile bike trips harder than 80 mile trips used to be.
D
yeahyeahyeah. i do it. but i have a car in the garage unused-stored.
but no, itsa hassle - no car is limiting by definition
or by world view-if one's interests do not extend beyond the 50 mile
limit then,,,
for exampull-most times the bike is ok
butbubut-for multiple task days>appointments at 10am...zeroooo!
i need to get to manatee park at 25 miles? to study manatee. car? no
problem: can't be done on a bike.
i'd like to get to homestead nascar for the ambience. only by car.
the list is endless.
ft myers has outstanding bike paths, endless summer, and an outstanding
bus system-at a $10+ per head subsidy
and the hidden bottom line? real commutung takes hours of maintenance.
an unsolved problem. where's that gallon oil jug? to chain enclose.
but no, itsa hassle - no car is limiting by definition
or by world view-if one's interests do not extend beyond the 50 mile
limit then,,,
for exampull-most times the bike is ok
butbubut-for multiple task days>appointments at 10am...zeroooo!
i need to get to manatee park at 25 miles? to study manatee. car? no
problem: can't be done on a bike.
i'd like to get to homestead nascar for the ambience. only by car.
the list is endless.
ft myers has outstanding bike paths, endless summer, and an outstanding
bus system-at a $10+ per head subsidy
and the hidden bottom line? real commutung takes hours of maintenance.
an unsolved problem. where's that gallon oil jug? to chain enclose.
R
Todd Tracy wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
dumb to try to live without a car.
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
dumb to try to live without a car.
J
[email protected] wrote:
> Todd Tracy wrote:
> > http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
I don't know about living in the US without a car; I've never lived
there. I have managed to live in Canada without a car for 20 years.
Rural living is a bit of a hassle but in a town or city there is not
all that much need for an automobile as long as one chooses to live
where amenities are reasonably handy and/or public tranist is also
available.
I must say I was not very impressed with the author's "attempt" to live
without a car.
Riding in jeans was that terrible. Strange, I did my first century in
jeans. Still, why would an 'avid' cyclist do a 4 mile ride in civvies
anyway?
I regularly carry 22 lb (10 kg) bags of flour in one of my pannier. He
might have wanted to consider something like panniers. And strangely
enough, have never felt like an outcast because I was in lycra. I have
had the owner of my favourite pub react in surprise when I showed up in
a suit.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
> Todd Tracy wrote:
> > http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
I don't know about living in the US without a car; I've never lived
there. I have managed to live in Canada without a car for 20 years.
Rural living is a bit of a hassle but in a town or city there is not
all that much need for an automobile as long as one chooses to live
where amenities are reasonably handy and/or public tranist is also
available.
I must say I was not very impressed with the author's "attempt" to live
without a car.
Riding in jeans was that terrible. Strange, I did my first century in
jeans. Still, why would an 'avid' cyclist do a 4 mile ride in civvies
anyway?
I regularly carry 22 lb (10 kg) bags of flour in one of my pannier. He
might have wanted to consider something like panniers. And strangely
enough, have never felt like an outcast because I was in lycra. I have
had the owner of my favourite pub react in surprise when I showed up in
a suit.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
T
who said anything about TRYING to live without a car?.
i'm 30 and STILL don't NEED to drive. it's been fun.
i see all the suckers paying $2.00 a galllon for gas, stuck in traffic,
paying isurance....making all sorts of excuses why they can't ride
more......
but hearing the gloomy naysayers proclaim it's not possible, makes the
oh-so-sweet ride...that much sweeter.
i'll see you on the road russell.
i'm 30 and STILL don't NEED to drive. it's been fun.
i see all the suckers paying $2.00 a galllon for gas, stuck in traffic,
paying isurance....making all sorts of excuses why they can't ride
more......
but hearing the gloomy naysayers proclaim it's not possible, makes the
oh-so-sweet ride...that much sweeter.
i'll see you on the road russell.
J
Joe Riel
Guest
[email protected] writes:
> Todd Tracy wrote:
>> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
If your family lived 1000 miles away would you then purchase an
airplane? More practical would be to purchase airline tickets. Since
they only live 100 miles away, you can forego the tickets and just
rent a car. I've done that; also ridden to the train station, taken
the train, and then ridden to my parents and/or brother's house. Also
done the entire ride on the bike. None of these options require
purchasing a car. There are reasons for owning a car, but seeing family
once or twice a year isn't a particularly good one.
Joe
> Todd Tracy wrote:
>> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
If your family lived 1000 miles away would you then purchase an
airplane? More practical would be to purchase airline tickets. Since
they only live 100 miles away, you can forego the tickets and just
rent a car. I've done that; also ridden to the train station, taken
the train, and then ridden to my parents and/or brother's house. Also
done the entire ride on the bike. None of these options require
purchasing a car. There are reasons for owning a car, but seeing family
once or twice a year isn't a particularly good one.
Joe
T
The Wogster
Guest
Todd Tracy wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
Yes, under certain conditions.
1) You live in a city, where there is a transit system, that goes where
you need to go.
2) You are able to use a bicycle or walk to fetch most supplies.
3) You don't need to drive for work.
W
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
Yes, under certain conditions.
1) You live in a city, where there is a transit system, that goes where
you need to go.
2) You are able to use a bicycle or walk to fetch most supplies.
3) You don't need to drive for work.
W
M
[email protected] wrote:
> Todd Tracy wrote:
> > http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
(For the record, I live in a city, though not downtown, and also not in
the US)
110 miles and I probably take a long distance bus, maybe a train, both
of those are pretty good around here.
Ten miles in twenty minutes simply isn't possible in my local traffic
conditions but if I did need to go ten miles real quick it would
probably be by motorcycle taxi.
If it is a multi-person trip or luggage is involved, then by all means,
car taxi.
When I am in the US (where my family lives) I can always find someone
willing to let me carpool. Even to events hundreds of miles away, if
it is big enough that I want to go there are probably other locals who
are going and I can ride in their cars. If not, then there is always
Greyhound (even if it sucks) or, above a certain distance, flying.
-M
> Todd Tracy wrote:
> > http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
>
> I'd agree with the author of the article. Its possible to live in the
> USA without a car, not practical or intelligent to do so though. On
> Thanksgiving I visited family that lives 110 miles from me. It was 20
> degrees and windy on Thanksgiving day. And I went to work for a couple
> hours before driving the 110 miles. Without a car, I would not have
> been able to visit family on Thanksgiving. Seems very impractical and
> dumb to try to live without a car.
(For the record, I live in a city, though not downtown, and also not in
the US)
110 miles and I probably take a long distance bus, maybe a train, both
of those are pretty good around here.
Ten miles in twenty minutes simply isn't possible in my local traffic
conditions but if I did need to go ten miles real quick it would
probably be by motorcycle taxi.
If it is a multi-person trip or luggage is involved, then by all means,
car taxi.
When I am in the US (where my family lives) I can always find someone
willing to let me carpool. Even to events hundreds of miles away, if
it is big enough that I want to go there are probably other locals who
are going and I can ride in their cars. If not, then there is always
Greyhound (even if it sucks) or, above a certain distance, flying.
-M
J
Todd Tracy wrote:
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
It is as easy to live in the US without a car just as easily as it is
in any other country without a car. How easy depends on what type of
terrain, how built up the area is, and what level of discomfort/hassle
a person is willing to endure. The myth that public transportation in
the US sucks and is so great in the rest of the world is hooey. In the
US people use their cars more because they can afford to due to
reasonable gas prices. Jack up the price with taxes to $8/gal european
prices and more folks will use the bus, and bikes. Does that mean the
public transportation system is better? And what about places like
Angola? Why do people there use bikes instead of cars?
Comparing the percentages of folks who use bikes for utility in a huge
country like the US to the percentage that use them for utility in a
tiny overflowing country like The Netherlands is ludicrous.
But it was a fun article, and I am sure lots more folks could get by
without using their cars as much as they do with out as much hassle as
they think if they got into the habit of it.
Joseph
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
It is as easy to live in the US without a car just as easily as it is
in any other country without a car. How easy depends on what type of
terrain, how built up the area is, and what level of discomfort/hassle
a person is willing to endure. The myth that public transportation in
the US sucks and is so great in the rest of the world is hooey. In the
US people use their cars more because they can afford to due to
reasonable gas prices. Jack up the price with taxes to $8/gal european
prices and more folks will use the bus, and bikes. Does that mean the
public transportation system is better? And what about places like
Angola? Why do people there use bikes instead of cars?
Comparing the percentages of folks who use bikes for utility in a huge
country like the US to the percentage that use them for utility in a
tiny overflowing country like The Netherlands is ludicrous.
But it was a fun article, and I am sure lots more folks could get by
without using their cars as much as they do with out as much hassle as
they think if they got into the habit of it.
Joseph
D
di
Guest
"Todd Tracy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
Who would want to?
news:[email protected]...
> http://www.slate.com/id/2131049/
Who would want to?
J
Jasper Janssen
Guest
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:45:47 GMT, Ted Bennett <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Yes, it is.
But it's not possible in *all* of america. In fact, it's pretty hard in a
lot of places that aren't east-ish cities or the very inner cities in the
rest of the place.
Jasper
wrote:
>Yes, it is.
But it's not possible in *all* of america. In fact, it's pretty hard in a
lot of places that aren't east-ish cities or the very inner cities in the
rest of the place.
Jasper
J
Jasper Janssen
Guest
On 28 Nov 2005 16:49:25 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Still, why would an 'avid' cyclist do a 4 mile ride in civvies
>anyway?
Why not? 4 miles is peanuts. I bike to stores more than that on a fairly
regular basis, and I don't get all gussied up for it.
Jasper
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Still, why would an 'avid' cyclist do a 4 mile ride in civvies
>anyway?
Why not? 4 miles is peanuts. I bike to stores more than that on a fairly
regular basis, and I don't get all gussied up for it.
Jasper
J
Jasper Janssen
Guest
On 29 Nov 2005 00:24:00 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>It is as easy to live in the US without a car just as easily as it is
>in any other country without a car. How easy depends on what type of
>terrain, how built up the area is, and what level of discomfort/hassle
>a person is willing to endure. The myth that public transportation in
>the US sucks and is so great in the rest of the world is hooey. In the
It's not a myth that public transport in the US sucks more than in the
rest of the world. It's not exactly a chauffeured limo here either, but
even the New York or DC subways versus the London, Paris, or Berlin
systems (which I've all seen firsthand) is not a favorable comparison, and
those are supposed to be the places in the US were public transport is
good.
In the cities where PT is not so good, it's generally pretty damn awful.
Many acquaintances of mine in such cities complain about hub-and-spoke
arrangements that make it much, much easier to go in and out that to go
around, so that a 10 minute drive to the next neighbourhood entails taking
the bus to city centre and another one out, for a time of an hour or two
(which is not entirely unknown here). Another problem is the number of
buses that go. I live next to a double-spoke bus line here, that has 4
buses an hour from, 6 am or so to 12 pm, with 6 an hour during rush hours.
That means that if I have to use the spoke system, at least I can get
decent connections, instead fo spending an hour at the hub waiting for the
next bus.
PT in the US has been systematically dismantled, because almost everybody
can afford a car, therefore there are few passengers, and the ones that
there are are the *really* poor. That's a recipe for unprofitability. It's
also a recipe for intense political ignoring of the issue -- poor people
don't vote, so nobody cares.
For example, if there is a scheduling issue (and the US is big, so
scheduling issues arise frequently), Amtrak trains have to wait for cargo
trains, they get precedence in being sorted out. That's something that
politics could easily fix -- train cargoes are typically
non-time-critical, so a little bit of delay is a lot less aggravating than
for passenger trains. But still, small delays on cargo trains are
considered to be more important than making passenger rail useable.
Jasper
>It is as easy to live in the US without a car just as easily as it is
>in any other country without a car. How easy depends on what type of
>terrain, how built up the area is, and what level of discomfort/hassle
>a person is willing to endure. The myth that public transportation in
>the US sucks and is so great in the rest of the world is hooey. In the
It's not a myth that public transport in the US sucks more than in the
rest of the world. It's not exactly a chauffeured limo here either, but
even the New York or DC subways versus the London, Paris, or Berlin
systems (which I've all seen firsthand) is not a favorable comparison, and
those are supposed to be the places in the US were public transport is
good.
In the cities where PT is not so good, it's generally pretty damn awful.
Many acquaintances of mine in such cities complain about hub-and-spoke
arrangements that make it much, much easier to go in and out that to go
around, so that a 10 minute drive to the next neighbourhood entails taking
the bus to city centre and another one out, for a time of an hour or two
(which is not entirely unknown here). Another problem is the number of
buses that go. I live next to a double-spoke bus line here, that has 4
buses an hour from, 6 am or so to 12 pm, with 6 an hour during rush hours.
That means that if I have to use the spoke system, at least I can get
decent connections, instead fo spending an hour at the hub waiting for the
next bus.
PT in the US has been systematically dismantled, because almost everybody
can afford a car, therefore there are few passengers, and the ones that
there are are the *really* poor. That's a recipe for unprofitability. It's
also a recipe for intense political ignoring of the issue -- poor people
don't vote, so nobody cares.
For example, if there is a scheduling issue (and the US is big, so
scheduling issues arise frequently), Amtrak trains have to wait for cargo
trains, they get precedence in being sorted out. That's something that
politics could easily fix -- train cargoes are typically
non-time-critical, so a little bit of delay is a lot less aggravating than
for passenger trains. But still, small delays on cargo trains are
considered to be more important than making passenger rail useable.
Jasper
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