Is it true Lance Armstrong was cheating?



tonyzackery

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2006
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LOL! The 'House of Cards' of crumbling. So beautiful - the truth./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 

531Aussie

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2004
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Originally Posted by Hunterp .

Lance Armstrong and Miguel Indurain once rode together.... I was there!

Hey all.
Hopefully this ends soon, but not sooner then i get to find a new home for a bunch of signed Lance items.
I still think he was an amazing athlete to watch and maybe someone out there wants these things for the right reason.

Check it out and please tweet about it, or post it on FB.

Thanks!
Hee hee!! Spamming an Armstrong doping thread to sell stuff. Pissa :)
 

swampy1970

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2008
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Originally Posted by alienator .


Small points:
  • I don't think the judges ruled on the merit of USADA's case, but rather on a jurisdictional points or constitutional grounds.
  • The fact that he chose not to answer makes him guilty by USADA's standards, not by any court of law.
The Judge did mention that the USADA's 'evidence' wouldn't pass muster in a court of law and as there was no mention of dates, events or names there was no way that Armstrong could defend himself against the charges brought forth by USADA. Maybe Lance would be better off in court if that really is the case.

If there's no evidence, only conclusions, what conclusion would you draw from that? Some have said that the USADA would only release all their details if the case proceeds but not releasing details to the defendant really makes it like attending a Kangaroo Court, which I guess, is one step up from a Witch Hunt...

Personally, I'm more for believing the comentary of a District Judge over comments made years after the fact by riders who were busted for doping and left their careers in tatters several years after leaving US Postal or Discovery or support staff that were now in jobs that paid less. The Judge seems to be the only one that hasn't been seem in a million interviews or doting the press in an attempt for fame during this affair.
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by swampy1970 .


The Judge did mention that the USADA's 'evidence' wouldn't pass muster in a court of law and as there was no mention of dates, events or names there was no way that Armstrong could defend himself against the charges brought forth by USADA. Maybe Lance would be better off in court if that really is the case.

If there's no evidence, only conclusions, what conclusion would you draw from that? Some have said that the USADA would only release all their details if the case proceeds but not releasing details to the defendant really makes it like attending a Kangaroo Court, which I guess, is one step up from a Witch Hunt...

Personally, I'm more for believing the comentary of a District Judge over comments made years after the fact by riders who were busted for doping and left their careers in tatters several years after leaving US Postal or Discovery or support staff that were now in jobs that paid less. The Judge seems to be the only one that hasn't been seem in a million interviews or doting the press in an attempt for fame during this affair.
I would think that the evidential standards for criminal cases in most jurisdictions are higher than evidential standards in civil cases in those same jurisdictions.

If the case presented by USADA against Armstrong is based on conclusions, why doesn't Armstrong contest those conclusions?
Armstrong is entitled to contest the conclusions of the case that was brought against him by USADA - all he has to do is to contest the case and show that the evidence in the case is not worth a penny candle.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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So easy to accept that Hamilton, Landis, Ullrich , Basso, Vino, Rasmussen and dozens more cheated. As stated Armstrong wasn't the first from that era he was one of the last and some of those never tested positive either.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by jhuskey .

So easy to accept that Hamilton, Landis, Ullrich , Basso, Vino, Rasmussen and dozens more cheated. As stated Armstrong wasn't the first from that era he was one of the last and some of those never tested positive either.
It's a damage limitation exercise now for Armstrong and his public relations people.

Armstrong knows that if the USADA case went to a full public hearing, the line up of people who would be brought to the hearing to testify against him would be damning.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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Originally Posted by limerickman .


It's a damage limitation exercise now for Armstrong and his public relations people.

Armstrong knows that if the USADA case went to a full public hearing, the line up of people who would be brought to the hearing to testify against him would be damning.
This does seem to be the logical conclusion and it is not all convicted dopers that would testify. Either way the most damage I believe will be the loss of his titles. He will be fine financially and will probably thrive. I wonder if all this would have come about if he had stayed in retirement.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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ApparentlyJan is being gasked if he would take the three titles. It puts him in a bad position.
 

limerickman

Well-Known Member
Jan 5, 2004
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Originally Posted by jhuskey .

ApparentlyJan is being gasked if he would take the three titles. It puts him in a bad position.
What are they going to do?
Close the Champs Elysees for a Sunday, rent a crowd and present JU with three yellow jerseys?

I agree with you that Ullrich is in an invidious position.
I don't know the man but I reckon he wouldn't even accept the jerseys after what he was put through by the cycling authorities.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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He says more or less, but not in these exact words, that they were all competing on a level palying field and that he was and is still second.
 

nonns

New Member
Jul 10, 2006
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People lie, dope and cheat every day. It doesn't make it right. Often the line between outright cheating and boxing clever is needle thin. Frankly we know that doping in the sport was appalling right up through the LA years. It doesn't excuse the fact that LA may have doped (he may not have) if indeed he has. It does however mitigate the effects of him doing it, If everyone around him was doing it.

To suggest that support of him and using arguments like these put supporters of LA in the same category as those who supported ****** is both fatuous dogmatic and stupid. I can support LA but would never have supported ******.

We shoudl indeed be looking at the cyclists riding now. The fact that LA may have been doping is irrelevant now. We know that the LA years were notorious wrt doping. Lets ensure that the Contador/Wiggins/Froome/Valverde years are better by putting funds/tracing/punishment efforts into the right people and processes.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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I hope this also. I loved the years that Jan and Lance went up the hill together and now all that is corrupted in my memory.
 

ambal

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2010
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Originally Posted by jhuskey .

ApparentlyJan is being gasked if he would take the three titles. It puts him in a bad position.
That would make the USADA look like right royal fools.
 

jhuskey

Moderator
Oct 6, 2003
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Originally Posted by ambal .


That would make the USADA look like right royal fools.
It's the media that's asking him. They should just leave it alone.
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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Kubler Ross Model aka The Five Stages of Grief:
  1. Denial (I'll just close my eyes and make it go away) - "He's never failed a drug test." "How do you know he doped - did you actually see him dope?" "Why should he continue fighting these trumped up charges?"
  2. Anger (a good offense is the best defense) - "They've got it in for him." "They're just jealous of his success." "Oh, it's those French. They always hate on Americans." "The Feds are just out to get him." "This investigation is a waste of taxpayer money." "He's a hero - we need heroes like him."
  3. Bargaining (trying to soften the blow) - "Well, what about all the others that were doping?" "Why don't they go after football/track and field/basketball/hockey/cricket/soccer players? They're always picking on cyclists." "It's in the past, why don't they just leave him alone?" "He conquered cancer. Just leave him alone!" "Look at all the good he's done concerning raising awareness for cancer victims."
  4. Depression (putting things into perspective) - "There's cheating in all aspects of life. Why should we think cycling is to be any different?" "Everyone cheats, so you might as well accept it as a part of life." "Lance is not perfect - he's just another human being."
  5. Acceptance - "Okay, he did it. Pro cycling is still and will always remain a wonderful sport."

LA supporters, where are you now????
 

CAMPYBOB

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
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Hey...it's 1995! They can't cheat that one away from him!



LA haterz...where are you now?



Bush's fault! I knew it!