Is it true Lance Armstrong was cheating?



ken browne

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Jul 22, 2011
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I HAVE ONE LAST THING TO ADD: IF EVERYONE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THEY LIVED THEIR OWN LIFE AND ALLOW OTHERS TO LIVE THEIRS- WOULD WE BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION.-




THIS IS NOT SOMEONE IN CONNECTION WITH LANCE ARMSTRONG AS MENTIONED ON AN EARLIER COMMENT ....HOW COULD I BE CONNECTED I'M IN IRELAND AND IF ANYONE IS THINKING "I WAS BOUGHT" ... I CAN'T BE BOUGHT ...MY WORD IS MY BOND ..IT WAS SOMETHING I FELT HAD TO BE SAID ..THIS IS YOUR COUNTRYMAN ,THE GUY IS A HERO IN USA AND TO BE HONEST HERO EVERYWHERE ...HE STANDS FOR SOMETHING ...HE STANDS FOR THE AMERICAN POSITIVE APPROACH TO A PROBLEM ...LIKE LEMOND BEFORE HIM .."ITS NOT OVER UNTIL THE FAT LADY SINGS" AND PROCEEDED TO TAKE TIME OUT OF FIGNON WINNING BY 8 SECONDS ...THESE GUYS ARE AMBASSADORS ..ANYONE CAN PUT ON A SUIT AND SAY GREAT THINGS BUT WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON ..YOU ARE AT MAX - ITS HARD TO FIND COMPOSURE ,,BUT BOTH LEMOND AND ARMSTRONG DID IT WITH STYLE..,,BE PROUD OF THEM. ...BOTH OFF AND ON THE BIKE ...

DRAW YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS NOT WHAT THE MEDIA HAVE TO SAY ...ITS ALL PROPAGANDA ..GOOD NEWS ..WHEN EVERYONE IS FINISHED WITH LANCE ...THE MEDIA WILL START PICKING ON SOMEONE ELSE ...
 

VeloFlash

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Feb 26, 2003
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Gee, Ken, four posts to date of this post in the total forum but all on his thread. One in July and three on this day. All defending Lance Armstrong.

So, do you believe an unprecedented exception should be made of Armstrong and the US Feds abandon the investigation and prospective indictments into whether in achieving his success he issued bribes, directed a corporation that laundered money and evaded tax, administered medical procedures without a licence, was in possession of drugs that required a prescription without a prescription (ie contraband), committed perjury before courts and tribunals, managed and directed a corporation that was in receipt of US government funds that had a contractual no drugs clause, etc?
 

ken browne

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Jul 22, 2011
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I think people have nothing better to do but talk about other peoples lives or faults - you must differentiate between what he has achieved in the past and what is currently in question now. Everyone remembers the bad or negative aspects but never the Good positive attributes or achievements. So many people are so quick to take out the stones and stone someone to death based on public opinion. Hero for a day and everyone loves you, because tomorrow will come when people will find some reason to hate you. My objective was to highlight Lance Armstrong's achievement, i am not interested in the politics. Many people die everyday from Cancer, do you think in their struggle to survive that politics is really that important! For Judicial reasons or otherwise, living is priority, if Lance Armstrong never bothered to setup any organisation, the example is to "LIVE STRONG" The action of returning to a sport at a competitive level better than before is enough to show people that with a "will to live" you can survive and achieve anything.
I don't know Lance Armstrong and i am unknown to him so why i am here speaking in his defence i don't know, i'm not even American.

everyone is entitled to there opinion and that's democracy but the world is far from perfect and no one person is perfect. If you are expecting Lance to perfect he's not. We all have faults, from an outsiders point of view if i was American i would be proud of him. Even if he did take drugs believe me any of the guys in the top 10 were also taking something,it is the pinnacle of the sport cycling.

i've no more to say on the topic

Ken
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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^^^ With your apparent lack of a moral and ethical compass, I hope and trust you don't have children. Think of the message you're sending - 'Everybody else was cheating, so you might as well cheat too - you know, to level the playing field.' Good Parenting 101?? I think not.

And heck, according to your logic, no one should ever go to prison or be punished for a crime for in that regard we'd all be considered hypocrites.

IMO, Lance knew his day would come when he'd have to face the music. His foundation is a PR ploy to deflect criticism, and it is quite clear that it has elicited the desired response from many individuals. I've heard reports that his foundation's ratio of donated dollars that actually go towards cancer research is pretty dismal.
 

davereo

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Jun 17, 2010
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Originally Posted by ken browne .





THIS IS NOT SOMEONE IN CONNECTION WITH LANCE ARMSTRONG AS MENTIONED ON AN EARLIER COMMENT

No **** Sherlock. Thanks for the disclaimer.
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Originally Posted by tonyzackery .

^^^ With your apparent lack of a moral and ethical compass, I hope and trust you don't have children. Think of the message you're sending - 'Everybody else was cheating, so you might as well cheat too - you know, to level the playing field.' Good Parenting 101?? I think not.

And heck, according to your logic, no one should ever go to prison or be punished for a crime for in that regard we'd all be considered hypocrites.

IMO, Lance knew his day would come when he'd have to face the music. His foundation is a PR ploy to deflect criticism, and it is quite clear that it has elicited the desired response from many individuals. I've heard reports that his foundation's ratio of donated dollars that actually go towards cancer research is pretty dismal.

Don't let facts get in your way: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?keyword_list=livestrong&Submit2=GO&bay=search.results
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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I'm sorry, but did I miss the section where there is detail regarding the percentage of revenue (from putting the foundation name on treadmills, et al.) collected actually going towards cancer research?

Regardless, what's your point? My opinion (of which I'm entitled) on Armstrong's motive for his foundation stands. Did I also miss where you shared yours?
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Actually, my point was pretty straight forward: that an organization that rates charities and how efficient they are (among other metrics) did not agree with what you allegedly had heard. Simple. Even dullards can follow that logic. If you go back to the link, they have a link at the very top called "methodology". Going to that link will help you learn how exactly they rate charities. Unfortunately what you allegedly heard comes with no methodology.

As for the rest, I addressed nothing but that point. I certainly don't give a damn about your opinion, but it is a bit putrid when you claim facts that you don't have. It displays a particular rancid form of intellectual cowardice and weakness.
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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Let's be realistic if Lance goes into to politics as rumored cheating is actually an asset and a selling point on your resume.
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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Originally Posted by alienator .

Actually, my point was pretty straight forward: that an organization that rates charities and how efficient they are (among other metrics) did not agree with what you allegedly had heard. Simple. Even dullards can follow that logic. If you go back to the link, they have a link at the very top called "methodology". Going to that link will help you learn how exactly they rate charities. Unfortunately what you allegedly heard comes with no methodology.

As for the rest, I addressed nothing but that point. I certainly don't give a damn about your opinion, but it is a bit putrid when you claim facts that you don't have. It displays a particular rancid form of intellectual cowardice and weakness.

LOL! True to form, with name "Strawman" written across your forehead. You failed to address what I heard (I make the presumption your reading comprehension is satisfactory), and still have the audacity to call me a coward?

Nonetheless, did I miss where you've voiced your opinion on the matter of LA's apparently decently performing House of Cards?

Quite obvious you're still sore about something I've said to you in the past - you need to let that go, pal, and come into present. Just a bit of advice.../img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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It's simple and doesn't require any straw man claim or accusation. This was your statement: " I've heard reports that his foundation's ratio of donated dollars that actually go towards cancer research is pretty dismal." I then pointed to a site that rates Livestrong pretty damned well, and I also pointed toward that site's link that describes their methodology for grading charities. That is all. I assume since you can't respond on point, that either what you heard was made up by you or came from unreliable sources.

Any other statements you've made since my initial post only reflect on you, since none of them have addressed my rather simple statement. I'm not particularly interested in anything else you have to say.
 

slovakguy

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Mar 17, 2006
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and this just in from the man who can't stand being out of the limelight:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/lance-armstrong-jerry-jones-cowboys-eagles_n_1069085.html?ref=sports

just a personal opinion, but, really lance, do you really think you could teach professional football players anything about p.e.d.'s that they don't know already?
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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LOL! Obtuse-ness, feigned, or otherwise is not pretty.
You said I "claimed facts". I never "claimed" anything as facts - I said I'd heard the information. And because I repeated what I'd heard doesn't render it fact; it's simply hearsay. Therein lies your strawman, my friend.

You remain boarded on a ship to Failsville with regard to disproving what I'd heard or altering my opinion as to LA's motives, irrespective of the performance of LA's fraud-based revenue generator. Carry on your search, but the foundation remains a 'house of cards' built on a foundation of sand.
 

VeloFlash

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Feb 26, 2003
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"House of Cards" could be an accurate description of Livestrong.

It is in danger from collapsing from outside pressure or from within.

Outside pressure could come from the IRS who regulates and investigates US charities with tax exemption status and can withdraw a foundation's tax exempt status (donors would not be able to claim a tax deduction on their contributions) if non compliance is found. The IRS will act on any complaint drawn to their attention and it is understood that Livestrong is currently being investigated.

These are the known issues without accessing Livestrong's non public books and records:

  1. Demand Media purchased the sub licensing rights to "Livestrong" and Livestrong.com The sale price was split 50% each to the Foundation (Livestrong.org) and Lance Armstrong (& his company). An unprecedented arrangement. Armstrong would have made a $34m profit on the transaction if he had sold his shares on listing. However, the SEC stepped in and drastically reduced his potential benefit to about 25% by rejecting the initial IPO.
  2. The travelling expenses of Livestrong are circa $2m per annum which is 20 times higher than the largest cancer organization in the US which receives a multiple of the donations paid to Livestrong.
  3. Salaries paid to executives are substantially higher than industry norm.
  4. There are issues relating to professional costs which have substantially risen over recent years.
  5. According to the Form 990 filed as linked on the web site the Foundation has issued for the first time an explanatory note. The note claims Mr. Armstrong made the largest single donation of $6m in the Foundation's history. The note implies the donation was made in 2010 and without that amount the Foundation would have returned abysmal industry comparative results.
  6. According to the Form 990 the Foundation has published the 2010 financial statements on its website. Those 2010 statements have not been published on the website.
  7. According to the Form 990 it is claimed the financial accounts are audited by a firm of accountants and another firm of accountants prepares the Form 990. This is not so. The same Austin Tx firm both audits the accounts and prepares the Form 990.
  8. During the course of the SCA Tribunal Hearing in 2005 an amount of $1.5m was paid to Indiana University Hospital as a donation by Livestrong. This amount was donated within days of affidavits being filed by the Andreus swearing to a conversation in Armstrong's hospital room in 1996 about drugs. As an alleged result of this donation the hospital could not identify the doctors present. Armstrong claimed under oath he had made the donation. The Hospital's media release was the donation came from Livestrong. The transaction raises serious questions about governance of the Foundation in the procedures of approving and granting financial support.
  9. Relating to the above, an affidavit was produced for the 2005 SCA Tribunal Hearing by a doctor wo was not present in the hospital room who swore he was not aware of LA admitting to taking PEDs. That doctor in 2005 was on the Lance Armstrong Foundation Board and in 2006 his hospital received a $500,000 donation from Livestrong. There was no statement made in the 2006 financial reports of this donation and that there existed a conflict of interest. Further governance issues as proper governance is critical to the IRS.

Livestrong would implode from within if Armstrong is convicted. It is a personality cult all built around him.
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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^^Nice work, Velo.
Confirmation of my suspicions all along.
Didn't that Alien character say something about facts a few posts ago?
 

Mark George

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Nov 21, 2011
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To come from nothing as Lance did, narrowly escaping death more than once, and becoming the celebrity that he has is truly amazing. History may judge him as famous or infamous, but one thing for sure, he will be talked about long after you and I and all the others on this forum are long dead, gone and forgotten. He has achieved what everyone wants, immortality.
 

tonyzackery

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Dec 23, 2006
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Appears Lance lives by the motto that 'the ends justify the means'. And also readily apparent is the fact that many still hold those who've acquire their riches/fame/glory through deceit in high regard. The 'Cult of Personality'. Sad commentary, IMO.
 

ken browne

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Jul 22, 2011
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if you read it properly instead of seeing it through the eyes of a cave man, seeing only what you want to see or subconsciously your automatic reaction is the same as the majority of the population- we will all take out or clubs beat our chests and club the guy to death!!!! As Steve Jobs once said "THINK DIFFERENT" everything i've seen here regarding Lance Armstrong is all based on propaganda & the media. Where are your facts? did you test Lance Armstrong for drugs yourself? - were you there when samples were taken? where you riding along beside him on the Alps? have you ever been close to death? Do you know him?-probably not but you've seen him on TV! - Have you ridden International Pro Level? What age are you --5 maybe 6years - are you really that fooled by the media!! A good story is a good story my friend - every cyclist has taken something, every sports person - it may not be banned but it has an enhancing effect - where are the boundaries set - what is banned or what is not - what is banned this week will be allowed again in a few years - because rules always change - MY POINT WAS : Lance Armstrong is a good Bike rider that went out from the USA & raced in Europe which is alot more difficult than the USA believe me, the weather, the roads, the riders are the Elite, its ruthless, no place to hide - don't even think about saying you have an off or bad day- it won't cut it - no second chances & no excuses.On top of that he was recovering from Cancer, most people would take it easy & stay at home but he realised that Life is precious & cycling is what he Loved most plus more importantly Lance proved to the World that yo can come back from a life threatening illness & not be the same but you can be better. "IT'S NOT HOW YOU FALL IT'S HOW YOU GET BACK UP"


My advice go and race in Europe - go to France or the RAS in Ireland where there is real racing - you might understand what Lance has achieved - what i've seen in the USA is not real racing - Europe is where it's at ...Until you can do that - you are a Virgin when it comes to cycling & not a clue what you are talking about

As for the other Guy's comment- SHERLOCK! - ha you better believe it - i sure look like him compared to you guys ....
 

alienator

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Jun 10, 2004
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Obviously the place to go to learn all the truth and facts about who is doping is an internet forum. THAT'S where the real insiders are. Yep. For real. I'm surprised that the UCI, WADA, USADA, CAS, and other agencies aren't in constant contact with Cycling Forums. Honest.