Is Lance the best current American athlete?



derKaiser

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Jul 28, 2004
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Cases could be made for lots of great athletes, but most Americans tend to designate Armstrong as the best of the best of American athletes. Is he the best? I think so, but not by the margin most would argue.
 
There's no such thing as the best current American athlete any more than there could be such things as the best current American musician, chef, or whatever.

Lance is currently, the best American cyclist at competing in the Tour de France. Period.

He'll never outshoot Tiger Woods on a golf course, he'll never keep Shaq from shooting a basket, he'll never get more hits or homers than Barry Bonds, and he'll never receive as many passes as Jerry Rice. And none of them will ever win the Tour de France.
 
Hmmm... the problem I have with this poll is that Jerry Rice is a little long in the tooth. Now, if you were talking about Jerry Rice when he was in his prime, I would agree that he would be worthy of being in this poll. And Shaq? I would say the same goes for him, he was a lot better athlete when he wasn't overweight and out of shape, still a good basketball player though, next year should be interesting in Miami.
 
Interpret it, then, as which currently competing athlete has been better over the course of his career.

And certainly there can be a best American athlete. If Lance is more dominant in his sport than any other American athlete in his, he qualifies as the best American athlete. Has Bonds dominated baseball more so than Lance? Has Shaq done the same for basketball? And Rice for football?

Jakebrake said:
Hmmm... the problem I have with this poll is that Jerry Rice is a little long in the tooth. Now, if you were talking about Jerry Rice when he was in his prime, I would agree that he would be worthy of being in this poll. And Shaq? I would say the same goes for him, he was a lot better athlete when he wasn't overweight and out of shape, still a good basketball player though, next year should be interesting in Miami.
 
well what if there's some american out there that you've never even heard of that completely dominates the world ping pong circuit. i mean, he has a trophy case crammed full of golden paddles or whatever and is regularly beating other national champions by 10-15 shots without breaking a sweat. Say he wins some month long grueling endurance test of table tennis with nobody even coming close to challenging him. Say he wins 20 world titles in a row. Are you then going to say he's the best american athlete? i highly doubt it...but some ping-pong fan might.
 
derKaiser said:
Interpret it, then, as which currently competing athlete has been better over the course of his career.

And certainly there can be a best American athlete. If Lance is more dominant in his sport than any other American athlete in his, he qualifies as the best American athlete. Has Bonds dominated baseball more so than Lance? Has Shaq done the same for basketball? And Rice for football?
And just what criteria are you going to use to determine if Lance is more dominant in cycling than any of those other athletes are in their given disciplines? You're still trying to compare apples to oranges.
 
KMKS said:
well what if there's some american out there that you've never even heard of that completely dominates the world ping pong circuit. i mean, he has a trophy case crammed full of golden paddles or whatever and is regularly beating other national champions by 10-15 shots without breaking a sweat. Say he wins some month long grueling endurance test of table tennis with nobody even coming close to challenging him. Say he wins 20 world titles in a row. Are you then going to say he's the best american athlete? i highly doubt it...but some ping-pong fan might.
If it happens, let me know. But I don't know if ping-pong qualifies as a sport (it does by Olympic standards, but what doesn't by Olympic standards?). Now take somebody like Cael Sanderson, undefeated all four years of NCAA wrestling. Even in a relatively alternative sport like wrestling, it's hard not to acknowledge Sanderson's dominance. If he had achieved something similar at the professional level, then yes, I'd rank him up there with Lance Armstrong.

But a major difference between the world ping pong circuit (if it even exists) and cycling is the level of competition. Cycling, in Europe at least, is a totally mainstream sport. The level of competition, therefore, is higher. In ping-pong, however, I can't imagine that very many people play cometitively (wrestling, too, and that's why Sanderson isn't as celebrated as collegiate athletes like Carmelo Anthony). To become an elite "ping-ponger," it probably doesn't take quite so much effort. So in a way, KMKS, you're right that dominance in a sport can't be the only method of evaluation. But dominance in a major sport (with the implication there is a high level of competition) can be the most important measure of an ahtlete's greatness. Bonds, Rice, and Shaq are listed for good reason: those are the three most competitive sports in the United States. Cycling counts, too, because Lance races in a competitive European environment.
 
derKaiser said:
If it happens, let me know. But I don't know if ping-pong qualifies as a sport (it does by Olympic standards, but what doesn't by Olympic standards?). Now take somebody like Cael Sanderson, undefeated all four years of NCAA wrestling. Even in a relatively alternative sport like wrestling, it's hard not to acknowledge Sanderson's dominance. If he had achieved something similar at the professional level, then yes, I'd rank him up there with Lance Armstrong.

But a major difference between the world ping pong circuit (if it even exists) and cycling is the level of competition. Cycling, in Europe at least, is a totally mainstream sport. The level of competition, therefore, is higher. In ping-pong, however, I can't imagine that very many people play cometitively (wrestling, too, and that's why Sanderson isn't as celebrated as collegiate athletes like Carmelo Anthony). To become an elite "ping-ponger," it probably doesn't take quite so much effort. So in a way, KMKS, you're right that dominance in a sport can't be the only method of evaluation. But dominance in a major sport (with the implication there is a high level of competition) can be the most important measure of an ahtlete's greatness. Bonds, Rice, and Shaq are listed for good reason: those are the three most competitive sports in the United States. Cycling counts, too, because Lance races in a competitive European environment.
Yes, Lance races in a competitive European environment, but he really only dominates in the Tour de France. In other races and in other cycling disciplines he doesn't always fare so well.

And again, there are no fair measurable criteria to compare greatness in cycling to greatness in other sports.
 
Excellent points der kaiser, and i picked a ridiculous example just for the sake of it, mostly b/c i actually saw ping-pong on espn last week (they call it table tennis) and heard one of the players referred to as the "Michael Jordan of table tennis." Anyway, I think your own response underlines my point itself, it's all a very subjective game and trying to discuss "who's best" or even which sport is more competitive, while fun to debate, is ultimately a fruitless endeavor.
 
My vote goes to Jeff Gordon... rofl jk Does he even count as an athlete??
 
Barry Bonds had this to say the other day ......

“Walking is harder than hitting because you are on your feet all day. I never sit down. I’d go on the bases, stand up, go get my glove and stand out there, except for a few minutes, go and hit, grab my glove, run a base, score, whatever, grab my glove, go out there. That’s hard. That’s not easy. Let somebody do that and see how it feels.”

Barry Bonds best current athlete? He's not getting my vote. :)
 
Hmmmm.... I'm a big NBA basketball fan and I don't think that O'Neil even belongs on that list. He's really just a 7'1", 350 pound freak of nature. His athletic ablility is really pretty limited in my opinion. Anyone with those physical statistics would dominate in the NBA. Now Kevin Garnet on the other hand.... (okay, I'm a T-wolves fan :) ).

It's really difficult to compare athletes in different disciplines.
 
People used to consider whomever was the best at the Decathalon to be the best athlete.
 
derKaiser said:
Interpret it, then, as which currently competing athlete has been better over the course of his career.

And certainly there can be a best American athlete. If Lance is more dominant in his sport than any other American athlete in his, he qualifies as the best American athlete. Has Bonds dominated baseball more so than Lance? Has Shaq done the same for basketball? And Rice for football?
Lance isn't very dominant in his sport. Lance is very dominant in one race in his sport. He's no Jordan. Eddy Mercx was the Jordan of cycling.
 
derKaiser said:
But a major difference between the world ping pong circuit (if it even exists) and cycling is the level of competition. .
You'd be surprised. In Asia 'table tennis' is a very huge sport. The 100th ranked chinese ping ponger could waste America's top ping ponger. It's that deep over there.
 
mattv2099 said:
You'd be surprised. In Asia 'table tennis' is a very huge sport. The 100th ranked chinese ping ponger could waste America's top ping ponger. It's that deep over there.
What about Micheal Phelps? Shouldn't he be on this list?
 
As far as athletic achievements go certainly being the only person to win 6 tours in a row may be the greatest of all time.
 
Not to take anything away from LA, but let's put his six TDF wins in perspective. His cycling team has pretty much been designed for one purpose, and that purpose is to help LA win the TDF. It's only in fairly recent history that cycling teams have had that kind of focus. So, not only is it impossible to justify that LA (or anyone else) is the best current American athlete, it's just as impossible to justify naming LA (or anyone else) as the greatest cyclist of all times. There probably have been other cyclists who had the athletic ability to win 6 TDF's, but they either decided not to focus their entire careers on winning this single event, or they were cycling during the period when teams were not as cohesive and disciplined as they are today.
 
Two words ..........

Ray Lewis.

His excercise/fitness/work ethic blows pretty much every other athlete away. The guy is a machine ...........
 

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