Is my Chain Set Worn?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ablang, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. Ablang

    Ablang Guest

    Is my Chain Set Worn?
    By Alastair Hamilton

    http://www.bikecyclingreviews.com/faq/Is_my_Chain_Set_Worn.html

    Alan Collett has been having problems with his drive train, he has
    bought a new chain and cassette and things are better, but not perfect
    as it still skips. He wants to know if this can be fixed by rear gear
    adjustments or if he will have to buy a new chain set also? Here is
    what we think

    Question:
    My Campagnolo Veloce 9 speed started skipping when pushing hard. As it
    has done several thousand miles I changed the chain and rear cassette.
    It now runs noticeably smoother in all respects except that it still
    skips. Can this be fixed by adjustments or will I need to replace the
    chain set as well.

    Hi Alan,

    Normally the chain set lasts a lot longer than the chain and cassette
    and should last you many years before needing replacing. If it did
    then you can replace the chain rings without having to replace
    everything, unless you want to up grade, of course.

    Worn Chain Ring?

    To tell if your chain rings are worn, or more precisely the teeth on
    the chain rings, if you can lift the chain off the chain ring teeth at
    one point while the chain is still wrapped round the chain ring, then
    it is worn, or look at the teeth on the chain ring, are they hooked?
    As you look at the tooth from the chain set side, leading face of the
    tooth or the right side, doesn't look like the other side, it has a
    hook look about it? If so then it is worn. As I said before the chain
    rings take a lot longer time to wear than the cassette, due to them
    being bigger and having more teeth to wear out.

    Rear Mech

    The Skipping

    First, does it skip on all the gears? If so it's probably a cable
    adjustment that is needed. Make sure that the chain is running OK on
    the smallest cog on the cassette and doesn't need the adjusting screw
    turned to let the rear mech move out or not go as far as it is doing.
    If this is good then change from the first sprocket to the second, if
    it is not moving up enough then you need to tighten the cable with the
    adjuster on the rear mech, if it is going to far then you need to let
    the cable out a little. Once you have the perfect change between the
    first and the second cog on the cassette then all the others should be
    good too, run through all the gears on the big and small chain rings
    to make sure they are good and that should be you with perfect gears.

    Cable Adjuster

    If it is still skipping then it is possibly a stiff link and as this
    is a new chain it will probably be the link that was used to join it,
    its always a good idea to clean a new chain as it is packed with a
    very sticky grease that it used to stop the chains from going rusty
    when they are in transit or in storage. Clean the chain with degreaser
    or a thin oil and remember to re-oil it afterwards, it will run much
    more smoothly. If all this doesn't help drop us another line and you
    can let us know how you get on.
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Ablang wrote:
    > Is my Chain Set Worn?
    > By Alastair Hamilton
    >
    > http://www.bikecyclingreviews.com/faq/Is_my_Chain_Set_Worn.html

    {snip}

    Jobst once claimed (/stated/) that chain rings do not wear enough to cause
    chain skip. Period. Many spoke up immediately in objection, but of course
    he never responded nor recanted his original contention.

    FWIW, BS
     
  3. On Jun 2, 11:51 am, "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Ablang wrote:
    > > Is my Chain Set Worn?
    > > By Alastair Hamilton

    >
    > >http://www.bikecyclingreviews.com/faq/Is_my_Chain_Set_Worn.html

    >
    > {snip}
    >
    > Jobst once claimed (/stated/) that chain rings do not wear enough to cause
    > chain skip. Period. Many spoke up immediately in objection, but of course
    > he never responded nor recanted his original contention.


    The first of the criteria in this article is incorrect. I put a new
    Sachs or SRAM chain on new chainrings of different manufacturers, and
    they all fit under the chain differently, some allowing distinctly
    different amounts of lift. I asked on this list how to know,
    quantitatively, that a chainring was worn, and was told by such as
    Andrew Muzi :It's worn out if the chain skips.

    Unanswered was a second question: Does a worn chainring wear out
    chains prematurely. Expensive as 10 speed chains are, and plentiful as
    chainrings are, this could cause you to care more about worn rings.

    Travis
    DC USA
     
  4. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    >> Ablang wrote:
    >>> Is my Chain Set Worn?
    >>> By Alastair Hamilton
    >>> http://www.bikecyclingreviews.com/faq/Is_my_Chain_Set_Worn.html

    >> {snip}


    > "Bill Sornson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Jobst once claimed (/stated/) that chain rings do not wear enough to cause
    >> chain skip. Period. Many spoke up immediately in objection, but of course
    >> he never responded nor recanted his original contention.


    [email protected] wrote:
    > The first of the criteria in this article is incorrect. I put a new
    > Sachs or SRAM chain on new chainrings of different manufacturers, and
    > they all fit under the chain differently, some allowing distinctly
    > different amounts of lift. I asked on this list how to know,
    > quantitatively, that a chainring was worn, and was told by such as
    > Andrew Muzi :It's worn out if the chain skips.
    >
    > Unanswered was a second question: Does a worn chainring wear out
    > chains prematurely. Expensive as 10 speed chains are, and plentiful as
    > chainrings are, this could cause you to care more about worn rings.


    I wasn't being flippant; chainring wear is not usually obvious otherwise.

    Jobst refers to classic road rings, relatively clean, hard, of good
    quality and in sizes over 42t. Today, with 32t and 36t middle rings
    driven by never-lubricated chains, the teeth erode down to little stumps
    on the lower range of urban bikes. Modern chains wear so fast that
    excessive secondary effects like chainring tooth deformation are no
    longer remarkable, something unknown in the classic era.

    Rings cannot wear chain (even if they were not aluminum teeth under hard
    steel rollers). The syndrome is noted clearly here:
    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

    It's the worn rivet/sleeve which makes the chain 'out of pitch' and
    hence wears the edge of the tooth. There isn't wear between roller and
    tooth, the roller providing a pivot for the rivet inside it.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
     
  5. peter

    peter Guest

    On Jun 3, 11:38 am, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote:
    > > The first of the criteria in this article is incorrect. I put a new
    > > Sachs or SRAM chain on new chainrings of different manufacturers, and
    > > they all fit under the chain differently, some allowing distinctly
    > > different amounts of lift. I asked on this list how to know,
    > > quantitatively, that a chainring was worn, and was told by such as
    > > Andrew Muzi :It's worn out if the chain skips.

    >
    > > Unanswered was a second question: Does a worn chainring wear out
    > > chains prematurely. Expensive as 10 speed chains are, and plentiful as
    > > chainrings are, this could cause you to care more about worn rings.

    >
    > I wasn't being flippant; chainring wear is not usually obvious otherwise.
    >
    > Jobst refers to classic road rings, relatively clean, hard, of good
    > quality and in sizes over 42t.


    That describes my chainrings (except for the 'clean'), but I still had
    problems on my 52-tooth ring with skipping due to wear a couple years
    ago. Turned the ring over so the pressure contact with the chain is
    on the opposite side of the teeth and it's been doing fine so far.
    But I'm sure it'll eventually wear out again and start skipping.

    > Rings cannot wear chain (even if they were not aluminum teeth under hard
    > steel rollers). The syndrome is noted clearly here:http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html


    Agreed.
     
  6. Peter Rathman wrote:

    >>> The first of the criteria in this article is incorrect. I put a
    >>> new Sachs or SRAM chain on new chainrings of different
    >>> manufacturers, and they all fit under the chain differently, some
    >>> allowing distinctly different amounts of lift. I asked on this
    >>> list how to know, quantitatively, that a chainring was worn, and
    >>> was told by such as Andrew Muzi: It's worn out if the chain skips.


    >>> Unanswered was a second question: Does a worn chainring wear out
    >>> chains prematurely. Expensive as 10 speed chains are, and
    >>> plentiful as chainrings are, this could cause you to care more
    >>> about worn rings.


    >> I wasn't being flippant; chainring wear is not usually obvious
    >> otherwise.


    >> Jobst refers to classic road rings, relatively clean, hard, of good
    >> quality and in sizes over 42t.


    > That describes my chainrings (except for the 'clean'), but I still
    > had problems on my 52-tooth ring with skipping due to wear a couple
    > years ago. Turned the ring over so the pressure contact with the
    > chain is on the opposite side of the teeth and it's been doing fine
    > so far. But I'm sure it'll eventually wear out again and start
    > skipping.


    >> Rings cannot wear chain (even if they were not aluminum teeth under
    >> hard steel rollers). The syndrome is noted clearly here:


    http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html

    > Agreed.


    I have posted pictures of a chainring that has its teeth nearly gone
    from wear but still worked well on the steepest hills (Sonora Pass).

    http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg

    When thinking about chains, this article is appropriate:

    http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html

    Jobst Brandt
     
  7. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > Peter Rathman wrote:
    >>>> The first of the criteria in this article is incorrect. I put a
    >>>> new Sachs or SRAM chain on new chainrings of different
    >>>> manufacturers, and they all fit under the chain differently, some
    >>>> allowing distinctly different amounts of lift. I asked on this
    >>>> list how to know, quantitatively, that a chainring was worn, and
    >>>> was told by such as Andrew Muzi: It's worn out if the chain skips.


    >>>> Unanswered was a second question: Does a worn chainring wear out
    >>>> chains prematurely. Expensive as 10 speed chains are, and
    >>>> plentiful as chainrings are, this could cause you to care more
    >>>> about worn rings.


    >>> I wasn't being flippant; chainring wear is not usually obvious
    >>> otherwise.


    >>> Jobst refers to classic road rings, relatively clean, hard, of good
    >>> quality and in sizes over 42t.


    >> That describes my chainrings (except for the 'clean'), but I still
    >> had problems on my 52-tooth ring with skipping due to wear a couple
    >> years ago. Turned the ring over so the pressure contact with the
    >> chain is on the opposite side of the teeth and it's been doing fine
    >> so far. But I'm sure it'll eventually wear out again and start
    >> skipping.


    >>> Rings cannot wear chain (even if they were not aluminum teeth under
    >>> hard steel rollers). The syndrome is noted clearly here:


    > http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8d.2.html


    >> Agreed.


    [email protected] wrote:
    > I have posted pictures of a chainring that has its teeth nearly gone
    > from wear but still worked well on the steepest hills (Sonora Pass).
    > http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg
    > When thinking about chains, this article is appropriate:
    > http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html


    You call those TA chainring teeth 'nearly gone'? Look at any cheap urban
    MTB with its typical 'orange chain'. Their middle rings often show a
    tooth height of only 3~4mm!
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    <www.yellowjersey.org/>
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    ** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
     
  8. On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 20:50:36 -0500, A Muzi <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> Peter Rathman wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> I have posted pictures of a chainring that has its teeth nearly gone
    >> from wear but still worked well on the steepest hills (Sonora Pass).
    >> http://home.comcast.net/~carlfogel/download/zzz_006.jpg
    >> When thinking about chains, this article is appropriate:
    >> http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-004/000.html

    >
    >You call those TA chainring teeth 'nearly gone'? Look at any cheap urban
    >MTB with its typical 'orange chain'. Their middle rings often show a
    >tooth height of only 3~4mm!


    Yeah, that ring is practically brand-new. Back when, I wore down the
    teeth on even the steel big ring (!) until the teeth 'width', as measured
    between the front and rear curves, was negative instead of the several
    millimetre it is on a new ring. Those things were sharp as knives.

    I did this by using a chain that was so worn I had to overshift by a gear
    or two to even get my chain across the cogset, incidentally, on the
    freewheel 6 in back. 'luckily' it was a friction shifter, so this wasn't
    that much of a problem...

    That was when I junked the bike.

    Jasper
     
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