Is Putin a master poker player, or what?

Discussion in 'Your Bloody Soap Box' started by CDAKIAHONDA, Jun 9, 2007.

  1. CDAKIAHONDA

    CDAKIAHONDA New Member

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    The Russian President, my new hero Vlad, in the most amazing poker play of recent memory offers the American President the ability to jointly develop Russian radar for the missle defense of Europe, directly no less!!!! What Balls, what genuine genuis!!!

    I close my eyes and imagine Vlad says, "okay George, I get it, your missle system isn't going to be aimed at us?"

    "It's for Iran? Heh, George?"

    " Really? Well cool, of course I believe you George....we're pals....I'm bringing Russian Vodka to Maine....Hey George, I know..... what if we help?" (wink)

    "Somebody get George a chair... must be the German Heat"

    "We can help provide the key ingredients like radar, You okay George?" (wink).

    "Smile at the camera, George, and stop looking into my eyes, George?, you're glaring George!"

    "... and George, I'm "all in!" ... George?... fold or call?"

    "George?........somebody get George a glass of water!"

    Am I crazy, or is this like the really biggest thing to happen in a long time, and it seems to be flying in under the Radar?" I am prepared to be BLASTED for that last pun. Is this just an American oversight, is the rest of the world as excited as I am about "Thermonuclear poker?"

    "I didn't know Jack Kennedy, and I don't know Vlad Putin, but I'm not so sure that Vlad Putin ISN'T "Jack Kennedy!" (Without the def-con2!)

    -Bastardized from Lloyd Benson to Dan Quayle

    Fucking Amazing!!!!!!!!!
     
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  2. sogood

    sogood New Member

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    Exactly my thoughts too when I heard the proposal. It just exposed the hypocracy of GWB's spin on the US plan. In any case, Bush admin's foreign policy has been rigid and ideological driven for a long time, and has been described as a failure by most analysts on just about every front. So I am not surprised by this turn of event.

    Yet again, what did you expect from an IQ of 91?
     
  3. CDAKIAHONDA

    CDAKIAHONDA New Member

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    So, to get on record, what do you think he does?

    A. Say, "well, I guess defending Europe isn't that important after all, let's just forget the whole thing?"

    B. Jointly spend billions building a missile defense system against missiles that don't even exist yet? Both sides using old, outdated technology that won't work because both sides are too paranoid about the other getting new state-of-the-art technology, that probably wouldn't actually work either, because neither side would want it to work anyway?

    C. Stall until Paris Hilton can be shown "leaving" jail, and the next season of "American Idol" starts so most Americans are too darn distracted to notice?

    Who would've thought potential global thermonuclear war could be so much fun?

    Wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall in Maine when Vlad and George light up the grill?

    Vlad might be kinda' tough to live with for a while, lawn darts could be vicious!

    Have you ever seen the "Loonie Tunes" episodes where Wiley E Coyote and the Sheep dog square off in the meadow? Just about the time the dog is about to clock the Coyote for messing with the sheep, the steam whistle blows signaling the end of the day. They both punch out on the time clock, pat each other on the back....and go home...until the next day when it all begins again...seems kinda like that...:D
     
  4. sogood

    sogood New Member

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    Who knows given the amount of resistance to the plan? And given Dubya et al's track record of never letting a sound argument stop their ideological decisions, he may just push ahead. But given the time line, he and his croonies in the administration are likely to be out of office before anything significant is accomplished over the next six months. Next administration will be a whole new day.
     
  5. CDAKIAHONDA

    CDAKIAHONDA New Member

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    What do you think China would do if the US AND Russia announced joint plans for a missile system in their "back-yard?" And could that be factor in the current gamesmanship, what if it's not just "poker'" but also chess?

    I know my tone is light, but seriously, I believe we're headed for a different kind of cold war. I don't believe that an increasingly "Unipolar" world is in the immediate future. The next "surge" in geopolitical gamesmanship is just beginning in my opinion.

    I'm not a conspiracy kind of guy, just a realist. The planet is getting smaller, energy supplies are dwindling, and all the players are shoring up their interests.
     
  6. sogood

    sogood New Member

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    Yes, the next decade will be very interesting. Whether the superpowers would waste their energy and money again on ideological and ego driven construts or focus their energy to combat things that would of real benefit to mankind eg. Global warming, famines, HIV/other diseases and others. At the present time, all I can see is that the US is interested in beating their military prowess. Fortunately they received a black eye and a bloody nose through their Iraq adventure. And I think their Afghanistan plans are gradually falling to pieces with increasing casualty rate also. So these may just temper things a bit while they continue to waste billions of their tax dollars into those areas. :D
     
  7. CDAKIAHONDA

    CDAKIAHONDA New Member

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    Yeah, but consider this for a moment. Even though both Iraq and Afghanistan are messes, they're American messes, and as long as America has soldiers there, in a mess or not, no other country can go in and create a "counter mess." (beyond the proxy fights of local and sponsored terrorists) At least not "uninvited" that is, unless they want to risk a war with the US.

    America likes to control areas this way, with over 700 bases world-wide, and troops stationed in nice places like Germany and South Korea. America likes to create "manageable" conflicts, and that's often the real tragedy. America has created a "manageable little war over there."

    Before you disagree about that, consider that this war costs the "average American" exactly NOTHING! I don't even personally know anyone, who actually knows anyone, who's lost a loved one there! There's freaking 300 million of us after all, do you suppose that the casualty rates you see are actually affecting the average American? Don't even get me started on the fact that most of those who are affected are the least influential of our society, poor and minority.

    Cindy Sheehan was an anomaly, and a large percentage of those that have been killed come from families who are pro-military, and they often believe the sacrifice was just that, and who are we to argue?

    Iraq is one of the least expensive wars as a percentage of GNP EVER. Our stock market is booming, our unemployment rate is at historical lows. The American people will not stop this war. Oh they'll weigh in from time-to-time, but only when prodded. And most often, the topic du jour is Gasoline prices, and only because most believe sub $2.00 per gallon gas is an American birthright. Not one in ten has any clue what the rest of the world is doing.

    Oh you hear about bad public sentiment over here about the war, but only because, for most, it's fashionable. Really, I live here, and let me tell you, what you see on CNN isn't happening in the streets in large number, or really even on the college campuses in any significant amount. Most people ignore the war totally, and only when querried will they give you an opinion. Apathy is the national pastime here, and I'm not being cynical.

    My point is, if Europe, or Australia, or China, or anyone else wants access to the huge oil reserves in Iraq, or the huge natural gas reserves in Afganistan, they need to deal with the Americans and their messes. "Black eyes and bloody noses" is a pretty darn insightful analogy, I will steal it from you I confess, but as you know, neither is fatal.

    Any guesses why Nicholas Sarkozy is talking pro US relations? Big games are being played, and at the top of the list are the few remaining places where surplus oil and gas can be found. The US in the Middle East, China in Africa, and of course the Russian Caspian. Hold on tight, good thing you have your own continent!:D I might join you!!!!!;)

    Don't bet on the next administration to make any changes, you'll only be dissapointed. America isn't done messing up the world yet, it's "manifest destiny." Every American believes that is America's "birthright" as well.

    Remember that America represents only about 5% of the world's population but uses over 50% of the world's resources. We're not even ashamed of it, we promote it! We celebrate it around the world, we're proud of it and we're exporting it in all its "made in China" consumeristic glory! There is no rationing, no war bonds, no conversion of "butter to bullits." NOTHING has changed with regard to any "physical reality" in my life as a result of the Iraq war.

    Lot's of people may react with outrage at this post, they'll weigh in about how they've been "changed." Bullshit, more will have been affected by an auto accident, home fire, flood or tornado. (My sincere condolences to anyone who has suffered ANY terrible loss, including a lost loved-one in the war, I do not mock your pain, nor do I seek to minimize it's VERY real affect on you and yours, may you find peace)

    It is because of that "managability" that I am most worried, the incentive for change is too low. Because of that, I'm part of the problem, and even though I "know" it, I gotta confess, I am a BIG consumer, big house, vacation home, big cars, lots of bikes...I salve my conscience by riding to work and recycling the newspaper, and by admitting (ranting) my guilt here, but if I'm honest about it, I'm doing almost EXACTLY NOTHING to help solve the problem. My shame is I know it and I care, but that and About $3.00 will get me an espresso at Starbucks.:eek:

    Good thing we're allies!:)
     
  8. sogood

    sogood New Member

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    Yes, there is "control" at this point. But the problem with Iraq and Afghanistan up to this point is that the longer the US stays, the more resentment and resistance there'll be. So it won't be a permanent solution, a situation that's no different to any past empires. The question is whether in due course the US would still have the strategic control to those areas when they really become valuable. It would be appropriate to question whether the chess moves up to this point are all wasted moves.

    I think Russia and China are smart enough to realise that there's no present value in those areas apart from the need to waste money. Patience is the name of the game I think.
     
  9. CDAKIAHONDA

    CDAKIAHONDA New Member

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    Perhaps, but the Russians "tried" Afghanistan already under the guise of propping up a communist regime, China has been courting Iran, is big in Africa, and is building pipelines from the Caspian. Russia has nationalized its oil industry, cut-off supplies to dissident ex-soviet block countries and struck deals with the Germans, among others in Europe over developing Off-shore LNG reserves off its coast.

    Also consider the value of the resource, not only its "per-barrel price," but its strategic value. Remember North Africa for the Nazis? The south Pacific for the Japanese? Perhaps the VERY creation of Israel? That was in the 1930's and 40's! Consider the value of the resource multiplied many times over as its utility is utilized in its refinement and use. The value of energy far outweighs its cost in its "raw state." Electricity is cheap, but its value is multiplied a staggering amount by its "use." Consider the commercial value of ideas, made possible by the boxes like the ones we're typing into, made possible by energy. That's the value of energy, and while there are other forms of it available, most of the world's existing infrastructure is "geared" towards one type, and you know what that is. The money? No country on earth could outspend the potential of over 700 billion barrels of easily accessible oil (and that figure is probably lower than the "actual" Middle Eastern reserves.)

    I think the US is setting up a "patient" little occupation right now, a little war that has lasted longer than "combat operations" in two theatres during WWII.

    Watch as Russia and the US compete for control, all while the US and China compete for energy. Russia is "energy Independant" right now, China and the US are not. I forcast shifting alliance (missile defense?), and global political and military manouvering on an unprecendented scale in the very near future.

    Resources are a zero-sum game. Most of us don't play those types of games, most of us don't like to think about the consequences of such games, we like to hope that our choices are isolated, and can be "offset" somehow. How many decisions are we, as individuals, required to make everyday where our success is almost totally dependant on anothers failure? We don't like to look at that part of it, and in America, we just don't.
     
  10. sogood

    sogood New Member

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    Yes, and those military invaders/occupiers all failed in due course. Unless the US can buck the rule of history in those areas, it'll fail in due course. It's such a dumb strategy in this day and age of globalisation.
     
  11. stevebaby

    stevebaby New Member

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    Just saw Bush and Putin on TV in a story about the shared bases.
    For a change...the smirk was on Putin's face. Bush looked like he had just bitten into a fresh turd.
    Excellent! :D
     
  12. Carrera

    Carrera New Member

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    Gorbachev gave some good advice - forget imperialism. In every case, imperialism sows the seeds of its own undoing. The alternative is to build a strong economy instead and not get bogged down in other countries. I think the U.K is now payinght he price for its former expansions and so is Russia (all the anti-Russian feeling in the baltics and Georgia).
    Any smart American would do well to dump Bush, get out of the Middle East (as much as possibility allows) and go back to economic advancement. Otherwise it will be too late as China is moving ahead at a startling pace.

     
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