Is road cycling dangerous?

[CAMPYBOB]

"I remember you mentioning he was a bike messenger."

Correct. Big in the NYC AYH crowd. Poet. Free spirit...or just plain crazoid! A fun guy to ride with. I was a first-year rookie when I met Judah. I was way faster, but he...he had the secrets of cycling under his "Brooklyn" cycling cap. Over the years, I got to see him for two days out the year. Every Mother's Day weekend the bus full of NY AYH'ers would show up for TOSRV and somehow, Judah always found our bunch of in the crowd of 2,000 to 10,000 riders and party riding we would go!

I read of his death online (cancer, IIRC) a couple of years ago and this time of year he always pops into my head...his super long hair and beat to **** Campy equipped Frejus are forever burned into my memory.

"My first year roomie in college was an ex-messenger in addition to being a major coke fiend. Apparently bribes paid in peruvian flake to the dispatcher were the only way to earn the high $$ runs at the major messenger outfits in NYC in the late 80's."

Judah would do a toke or two and be on the 28th floor! He was kind of naturally high. One hellova New York Jew, he was! My Jewish lawyer riding partner from Columbus was in shock over Judah's unkempt appearance and lack of...er...social graces, but they bonded well. Was there anyone that didn't like Judah? I doubt it!

I remember him getting ****** off at another rider that did something stupid or dangerous on the road. Judah's 'rant' was more funny than threatening! For a New Yorker he was very laid back and courteous to a fault.

"Maybe that's how Tornado Tom got his start in Belgium?"

Heh! Either that or as a Ferrari test driver?

 

[vspa]

"I remember you mentioning he was a bike messenger." Correct. Big in the NYC AYH crowd. Poet. Free spirit...or just plain crazoid! A fun guy to ride with. I was a first-year rookie when I met Judah. I was way faster, but he...he had the secrets of cycling under his "Brooklyn" cycling cap. Over the years, I got to see him for two days out the year. Every Mother's Day weekend the bus full of NY AYH'ers would show up for TOSRV and somehow, Judah always found our bunch of in the crowd of 2,000 to 10,000 riders and party riding we would go! I read of his death online (cancer, IIRC) a couple of years ago and this time of year he always pops into my head...his super long hair and beat to **** Campy equipped Frejus are forever burned into my memory. "My first year roomie in college was an ex-messenger in addition to being a major coke fiend. Apparently bribes paid in peruvian flake to the dispatcher were the only way to earn the high $$ runs at the major messenger outfits in NYC in the late 80's." Judah would do a toke or two and be on the 28th floor! He was kind of naturally high. One hellova New York Jew, he was! My Jewish lawyer riding partner from Columbus was in shock over Judah's unkempt appearance and lack of...er...social graces, but they bonded well. Was there anyone that didn't like Judah? I doubt it! I remember him getting ****** off at another rider that did something stupid or dangerous on the road. Judah's 'rant' was more funny than threatening! For a New Yorker he was very laid back and courteous to a fault. "Maybe that's how Tornado Tom got his start in Belgium?" [COLOR=FF00AA]im sure he came into the coke business long after he became a bike champion, and that seems to be over anyway for him[/COLOR] Heh! Either that or as a Ferrari test driver?

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

Heh! Either that or as a Ferrari test driver?

Apparently a better sprinter than test driver...



At least some lucky puss now has 8 lives, so the story goes.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by vspa .

[COLOR= rgb(255, 0, 170)]im sure he came into the coke business long after he became a bike champion, and that seems to be over anyway for him[/COLOR]

Only time can tell. But anyone that swerves to avoid a kitteh cat, or has the stones to use that as an excuse, is A-ok in my book. Personally I'm betting we haven't seen the last of Tommy Montana and his pile of yayo.

 

[Gary Booker]

Its all about weighing up risk vs reward- risks are obvious, but the rewards from road cycling are fantastic and highly beneficial to your body.

 

[corrado33]

Cycling isn't nearly as dangerous when you practice "defensive" cycling. If you expect people to pull out on you then you are much less likely to be surprised when they do. I'm always on the lookout for people pulling out of driveways, or making right turns, or opening doors and have saved myself a few times. Sure, you may go marginally slower, but if you're riding in a populated enough area where you have to watch out for those things, you shouldn't be riding for pure speed anyway. In populated areas, you should always be covering the brakes. That's my theory at least. In the end, roads are generally built for cars. It is your responsibility to keep yourself safe. You weigh ~200 lbs. Cars weigh close to a ton in some cases. Cars will win. Riding like an jerk is a good way to get yourself hurt. This is all my opinion though, and I haven't gotten hurt from a car yet, then again I don't ride in a huge metropolitan area either.

 

[jpr95]

Heh-heh. Yeah, "cars weigh close to a ton in some cases". That would be a very small minority of cases, and those would be the lightest cars out there, typically at the two extremes of the price spectrum. Many, many more cars that are 1.5-2 tons, and when it comes to full size pickups and SUVs, those often start at 2 tons and go up from there. My work van (a full size Ford E250), with a typical load is probably north of 3.5 tons.

But, yes, the point is that, as a cyclist, you want to be alive, not necessarily right. You can be right...and dead.

 

[ambal]

Originally Posted by Gary Booker .

Its all about weighing up risk vs reward- risks are obvious, but the rewards from road cycling are fantastic and highly beneficial to your body.

This is so very true. There are risks with almost everything we do, thousands of people choke on food while eating every year.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by Gary Booker .

Its all about weighing up risk vs reward- risks are obvious, but the rewards from road cycling are fantastic and highly beneficial to your body.

I believe a better phrasing is risk vs consequences.

The consequences of a bicycle-motor vehicle accident can be rather severe.

 

[steve]

I believe a better phrasing is risk vs consequences. The consequences of a bicycle-motor vehicle accident can be rather severe.

Maybe he is a glass half full kind of rider?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Maybe he is a glass half full kind of rider?"

We all are. Or we wouldn't be here, now, posting on a cycling forum.

But, I won't kid myself for 30 seconds that what I do isn't extremely risky.

I cycled a lot of Europe a lot of years ago. I can only speak, today, about the USA...it's seriously dangerous. People care so little for their own safety that the dumbasses have their faces glued to their cell phones and tablets while they have head-ons with another one four-ton car diesel dually truck.

Does that risk or the repeated nightly news accident pictures cause a behavior change to the texting drivers? Nope. Not in my AO anyway.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"Maybe he is a glass half full kind of rider?"

We all are. Or we wouldn't be here, now, posting on a cycling forum.

But, I won't kid myself for 30 seconds that what I do isn't extremely risky.

I cycled a lot of Europe a lot of years ago. I can only speak, today, about the USA...it's seriously dangerous. People care so little for their own safety that the dumbasses have their faces glued to their cell phones and tablets while they have head-ons with another one four-ton car diesel dually truck.

Does that risk or the repeated nightly news accident pictures cause a behavior change to the texting drivers? Nope. Not in my AO anyway.

You also concentrate on risk rather than consequences. No one should care about the risk of texting. One should care about the consequences. In a car bicycle interaction the risk for both parties is the same - pretty small. The consequences for the bicyclist are much greater than those of the motorist. So the texting motorist does not need to care about the consequences. The bicyclist may need to.

 

[trevor022]

It is dangerous but what isn't?

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"You also concentrate on risk rather than consequences."

1. risk /risk/
   Noun A situation involving exposure to danger:
   
   

Yes. I do.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by CAMPYBOB .

"You also concentrate on risk rather than consequences."

1. risk /risk/

1. Noun A situation involving exposure to danger:
   
   

Yes. I do.

As I said "You also concentrate on risk rather than consequences."

Knowing what one word means and not the other is what leads to your misunderstanding.

 

[jpwkeeper]

The generally accepted formula for Risk is Likelyhood X Severity.

So if I go riding a long way from home, I run the risk of getting a flat, the consequences of which are that I have to call someone and beg them to come pick me up.

I can reduce the risk of a flat by using Kevar tires. I can reduce the consequences of the flat by carrying a repair kit and hand pump, bringing it down to losing time on my ride to changing the tube. I still run the risk of getting another flat and getting back to the original consequences, but the likelyhood is much lower so when multiplied against the consequences is not that bad.

So we've established that the Severity side of the road cycling risk equation is pretty darn severe, and there is very little you can do to reduce the severity side of the equation (other then helmets, which may or may not help, but that's another thread).

So all we can do is reduce the likelyhood, by being alert, cautious, courteous, sensible, and predictable. However fatigue reduces all of those things, and that's half the point of riding (because without the fatigue we wouldn't gain fitness).

However, that does exactly nothing to answer the initial question of is it safe, but it might narrow the scope of the question a bit.

So how likely is it to get into an accident? You long-time road riders, how many times have you been struck or had to perform something heroic to prevent being struck?

 

[sitzmark]

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

So how likely is it to get into an accident? You long-time road riders, how many times have you been struck or had to perform something heroic to prevent being struck?

Four seasons of riding - so not long-time. About 15,000 miles covered. No strikes. Two incidents, estimated with buffer less than 12" - both from rear. Second intentional buzz @ around 45/50mph. No time for "something heroic".

A ride mate was struck and killed while riding as part of, but separated from a regularly scheduled weekly ride. Driver claimed sneezing attack caused her to veer to right. No charges.

Numbers game that is decreased by awareness and responsible riding. Responsibility of drivers and fate probably play bigger role. Personally something that I accept as part of the territory - timidity and hesitation can create dangerous situations IMO.

 

[CAMPYBOB]

"Responsibility of drivers and fate probably play bigger role."

Agreed.

 

[alienator]

Numbers game that is decreased by awareness and responsible riding. Responsibility of drivers and fate probably play bigger role.  Personally something that I accept as part of the territory - timidity and hesitation can create dangerous situations IMO.

Yup.

 

[An old Guy]

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper .

The generally accepted formula for Risk is Likelyhood X Severity.

So how likely is it to get into an accident? You long-time road riders, how many times have you been struck or had to perform something heroic to prevent being struck?

Risk is the potential of loss (an undesirable outcome, however not necessarily so) resulting from a given action, activity and/or inaction. The notion implies that a choice having an influence on the outcome sometimes exists (or existed). Potential losses themselves may also be called "risks". Any human endeavor carries some risk, but some are much riskier than others.

Flat tires are not a risk. They are an inconvenience. I call home. Someone there orders a pizza - charging it to me, and then they eat the pizza and pick me up.

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I have only been hit once while bicycling. The motor vehicle was undamaged.

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On the other hand I was bicycling on a 2 lane road with no shoulders and 65mph speed limit. I did not mind the 18-wheeler approaching. I did have unkind thoughts for the driver of the 18-wheeler who decided it was safe to pass. Distance and good brakes on truck are wonderful. Everyone went home happy.

I find that in a poor situation like I just described it is worthwhile to move to the center of the lane and make it clear that I will get hit.

When the situation forces a choice between being hit by a motor vehicle or going into the ditch next to the road, the consequences associated with either choice are often not what one would like.