Is Shimano still inferior to Campagnolo? (nt)

[Mike Krueger]

<< for derailleurs, brakes, and integrated shifters/brake levers, I would take campy any day of the
week. Everything else I would go third party for: bottom bracket, seatpost, cranks. Campy stuff also
looks nicer and has better resale value. You could buy a used campy record derailleur on ebay for
$150, use it for a year, then sell it for $150 on ebay. >>

If Campy looks nicer and has better "resale value", why not put Campy cranks on instead of
3rd party?

 

[Chalo]

"Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote

> Improved compared to what? As far back as I can remember, Shimano stuff has been as "good" as any.

There's a man who's never ridden a bike with Shimano "Lark" derailleurs and Shimano "turkey wing"
auxiliary brake levers. What say you live awhile with a Shimano 333 gearhub and get back to us with
your assessment?

There was a time when Campy parts got much better rates at the recycler than Shimano, what with
aluminum fetching 10 or 20 times as much per pound as steel. Brand S made cast-plastic-over-steel
parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.

Mmmm...."good"!

Chalo Colina

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> > Improved compared to what? As far back as I can remember, Shimano stuff
has
> > been as "good" as any.
>
> There's a man who's never ridden a bike with Shimano "Lark" derailleurs and Shimano "turkey wing"
> auxiliary brake levers. What say you live awhile with a Shimano 333 gearhub and get back to us
> with your assessment?
>
> There was a time when Campy parts got much better rates at the recycler than Shimano, what with
> aluminum fetching 10 or 20 times as much per pound as steel. Brand S made cast-plastic-over-steel
> parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
>
> Mmmm...."good"!

If you buy cheap ****, that's what you get, cheap ****.

I bought Shimano DuraAce in 1985, still have the bike and all the components are still in excellent
working order.

Dashii
>
> Chalo Colina

 

[Bfd]

"Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:J9NJa.1255$R73.403@sccrnsc04...
>
> "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote
> >
> > > Improved compared to what? As far back as I can remember, Shimano
stuff
> has
> > > been as "good" as any.
> >
> > There's a man who's never ridden a bike with Shimano "Lark" derailleurs and Shimano "turkey
> > wing" auxiliary brake levers. What say you live awhile with a Shimano 333 gearhub and get back
> > to us with your assessment?
> >
> > There was a time when Campy parts got much better rates at the recycler than Shimano, what with
> > aluminum fetching 10 or 20 times as much per pound as steel. Brand S made
> > cast-plastic-over-steel parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
> >
> > Mmmm...."good"!
>
> If you buy cheap ****, that's what you get, cheap ****.
>
> I bought Shimano DuraAce in 1985, still have the bike and all the
components
> are still in excellent working order.
>
Yeah, but how many miles a year do you ride your 1985 DA stuff? If it just sits in your garage or
hangs on your wall, of course its going to be in "excellent working order". Riding and mileage, not
time, is a true indicator of whether your parts are "cheap ****" or not....

 

[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Chalo) wrote:

> There was a time when Campy parts got much better rates at the recycler than Shimano, what with
> aluminum fetching 10 or 20 times as much per pound as steel. Brand S made cast-plastic-over-steel
> parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
>
> Mmmm...."good"!

Oohh. I know the levers you're talking about, but am amazed they actually made cranks that way!

In fairness, Shimano just has tremendous range. You can buy everything from the essentially boutique
XTR and Dura Ace lines all the way down to stamped parts so cheap they don't even get their own
names (I'm thinking of stuff like the TY-27 or whatever, the groups used on cheap "21-speed"
department-store bikes. I daresay Dura Ace hasn't had much steel in it for many years indeed.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Acrosound]

The Shimano groups are perhaps a bit less expensive but I've had good success with Campy for over
25 years...

the last "gruppo" purchase in 98 or 99... a Chorus 8 speed group. Still works like a charm.

i had just bought a new frame and was debating whether to save some bucks and go DuraAce or stick
with the tried and true and go Record.

Another deciding factor for me was the Campy wheelsets.

thanks all,

msl

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Matt O'Toole wrote
>=20
>>Improved compared to what? As far back as I can remember, Shimano stuf=
f has
>>been as "good" as any.

Chalo Colina

> There's a man who's never ridden a bike with Shimano "Lark" derailleurs and Shimano "turkey wing"
> auxiliary brake levers.=20

Ooooh...I really didn't want to get into this, but this comment can't be =

allowed to go unchallenged. Evidently Chalo never rode a bike with a=20 Lark derailer.

When the Lark derailer was a current model it shifted better than ANY=20 other derailer money could
buy! That's why I put them on both of my=20 tandems (I only owned two tandems back then.)

The only thing that came close was the SunTour VGT. None of the=20 contemporary Euro stuff was
anywhere near these two in performance.

The Lark also had a really neat feature, the cable anchor was hooked up=20 to an otherwise unused
end of one of the springs, providing an=20 overload/preselector feature. You could stop in high
gear, then yank=20 the shift lever all the way back, then pedal away and it would shift=20 right
down to low gear. If you tried this with any other derailer,=20 you'd just snap the cable. When
these were being installed on wheelie=20 bikes with big stick shifts, this was a major plus.

A variant on the Lark was the Eagle, same basic derailer with a heavy=20 duty adaptor claw and a
built-in bumper. This was the ruggedest=20 derailer ever, made the Hur=E9t Alvit look wimpy.

As to the turkey wings, I agree that the basic concept was bad, but the=20 Shimano version was
executed WAY better than the much more common=20 DiaCompe type.

Shimano's version didn't reduce brake lever travel, and could be easily=20
removed without leaving a bloody stump sticking out of the lever hood. =

they were also compatible with rubber hoods, a feature DiaCompe only=20 added late in the
product cycle.

> What say you live awhile with a Shimano 333 gearhub and get back to us =
with
> your assessment?

Those work fine for lightweight folks, but didn't hold up well under big =

Americans.

Sheldon "Don't Knock The Lark" Brown +---------------------------------+
| Is ambivalence a bad thing? | Well, yes and no. | -- Garrison Keillor |
+---------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-9772
FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

 

[Chalo]

Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] (Chalo) wrote:
>
> > Brand S made cast-plastic-over-steel parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
>
> Oohh. I know the levers you're talking about, but am amazed they actually made cranks that way!
>
> In fairness, Shimano just has tremendous range. You can buy everything from the essentially
> boutique XTR and Dura Ace lines all the way down to stamped parts so cheap they don't even get
> their own names

My first MTB, a Maruishi bought in early 1988 (and before I had developed any discrimination WRT
bikes) retailed for a none-too-cheap US$575. Yet it was equipped with Shimano's fantabulous "Exage
Mountain", top of the then-new Exage line and also top of the plastic-covered steel parts line.

It goes to show that cheap Shimano parts are not necessarily inexpensive.

Chalo Colina

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"bfd" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dashi Toshii" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:J9NJa.1255$R73.403@sccrnsc04...
> >
> > "Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > "Matt O'Toole" <[email protected]> wrote
> > >
> > > > Improved compared to what? As far back as I can remember, Shimano
> stuff
> > has
> > > > been as "good" as any.
> > >
> > > There's a man who's never ridden a bike with Shimano "Lark" derailleurs and Shimano "turkey
> > > wing" auxiliary brake levers. What say you live awhile with a Shimano 333 gearhub and get back
> > > to us with your assessment?
> > >
> > > There was a time when Campy parts got much better rates at the recycler than Shimano, what
> > > with aluminum fetching 10 or 20 times as much per pound as steel. Brand S made
> > > cast-plastic-over-steel parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
> > >
> > > Mmmm...."good"!
> >
> > If you buy cheap ****, that's what you get, cheap ****.
> >
> > I bought Shimano DuraAce in 1985, still have the bike and all the
> components
> > are still in excellent working order.
> >
> Yeah, but how many miles a year do you ride your 1985 DA stuff? If it just sits in your garage or
> hangs on your wall, of course its going to be in "excellent working order". Riding and mileage,
> not time, is a true indicator of whether your parts are "cheap ****" or not....

It was my only road bike up to last year.

Maybe 85,000 miles on it.

Dashii

 

[Dashi Toshii]

"Chalo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [email protected] (Chalo) wrote:
> >
> > > Brand S made cast-plastic-over-steel parts (cranks, brakes, levers) well into the '90s.
> >
> > Oohh. I know the levers you're talking about, but am amazed they actually made cranks that way!
> >
> > In fairness, Shimano just has tremendous range. You can buy everything from the essentially
> > boutique XTR and Dura Ace lines all the way down to stamped parts so cheap they don't even get
> > their own names
>
> My first MTB, a Maruishi bought in early 1988 (and before I had developed any discrimination WRT
> bikes) retailed for a none-too-cheap US$575. Yet it was equipped with Shimano's fantabulous "Exage
> Mountain", top of the then-new Exage line and also top of the plastic-covered steel parts line.
>
> It goes to show that cheap Shimano parts are not necessarily inexpensive.
>
> Chalo Colina

Sounds like the retailer ripped you off, not Shimano.

Dashii

 

[Mike S.]

> My first MTB, a Maruishi bought in early 1988 (and before I had developed any discrimination WRT
> bikes) retailed for a none-too-cheap US$575. Yet it was equipped with Shimano's fantabulous "Exage
> Mountain", top of the then-new Exage line and also top of the plastic-covered steel parts line.
>
> It goes to show that cheap Shimano parts are not necessarily inexpensive.
>
> Chalo Colina

I rode the hell out of my Mtn Exage stuff. As it broke, on went XT... But as a first bike, my 1987
Rockhopper wasn't a bad place to start, Mtn Exage and all.

Mike

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 21:46:09 +0200, "Martin Borsje" <[email protected]> wrote:

>So you state that by just simply being more expensive it must be better?

Yes, I did.

Now whether I actually *meant* that statement might be a different matter.

Jasper

 

[Jasper Janssen]

On Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:23:45 -0700, Ryan Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:

>Oohh. I know the levers you're talking about, but am amazed they actually made cranks that way!

I had one of those plastic-over-steel cranks, but I'm not sure it was Shimano. The derailers,
freewheel and shifter were, but brakes frex weren't, so.. anybody's guess. Black plastic over steel
with riveted on triple chainrings, 28/38/48.

>In fairness, Shimano just has tremendous range. You can buy everything from the essentially
>boutique XTR and Dura Ace lines all the way down to stamped parts so cheap they don't even get
>their own names (I'm thinking of stuff like the TY-27 or whatever, the groups used on cheap
>"21-speed" department-store bikes. I daresay Dura Ace hasn't had much steel in it for many
>years indeed.

TY stands for the Tourney line, those do have a name. You just never hear it here.

Jasper

 

[David Damerell]

Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> wrote:
>Yes, but in practice it doesn't make any difference. I haven't heard of a broken rear axle, for
>example, for many years.

My father broke one just the other day.
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!

 

[David Damerell]

Jasper Janssen <[email protected]> wrote:
>TY stands for the Tourney line, those do have a name. You just never hear it here.

My long-cage rear derailleur has "Tourney" written on it, so they do admit to it sometimes...
--
David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6Kj*[email protected]...
> Matt O'Toole <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Yes, but in practice it doesn't make any difference. I haven't heard of
a
> >broken rear axle, for example, for many years.
>
> My father broke one just the other day.

Shitmanpoo QR rear axles fitted to hubs for threaded freewheel cassettes are shite, and break
frequently due mostly to the long unsupported piece of axle at the drive side. I broke 3 in as many
months, and bent another (I weigh about 155lbs).

However, I ain't gorra clue if anyone else makes a QR axle system that works better with this kind
of set-up, so, ignore everything I just said, as it's totally pointless - I just like typing.

Thanks for paying no attention.

Shaun aRe - HTH, HAND, etc.

 

[Antti Salonen]

Shaun Rimmer <[email protected]> wrote:

> Shitmanpoo QR rear axles fitted to hubs for threaded freewheel cassettes are shite, and break
> frequently due mostly to the long unsupported piece of axle at the drive side. I broke 3 in as
> many months, and bent another (I weigh about 155lbs).

> However, I ain't gorra clue if anyone else makes a QR axle system that works better with this kind
> of set-up, so, ignore everything I just said, as it's totally pointless - I just like typing.

Unless I'm mistaken, modern Campagnolo hubs are just like that. The drive-side axle bearing is on
the inside of the freewheel body. AFAIK the aluminium axles last just fine.

-as

 

[Shaun Rimmer]

Antti Salonen <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Shaun Rimmer <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Shitmanpoo QR rear axles fitted to hubs for threaded freewheel cassettes
are
> > shite, and break frequently due mostly to the long unsupported piece of
axle
> > at the drive side. I broke 3 in as many months, and bent another (I
weigh
> > about 155lbs).
>
> > However, I ain't gorra clue if anyone else makes a QR axle system that
works
> > better with this kind of set-up, so, ignore everything I just said, as
it's
> > totally pointless - I just like typing.
>
> Unless I'm mistaken, modern Campagnolo hubs are just like that. The drive-side axle bearing is on
> the inside of the freewheel body.

Uh-huh!

> AFAIK the aluminium axles last just fine.

These were steel axles, possibly chromo. This was an MTB, though, and saw a few small drops (stairs,
dirt/rock ledges etc. but nothing over 18 inches). I don't think aluminium axles would fare quite so
well as these did, in the circumstances.

Shaun aRe - How come this pen never runs out?

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

Many would say they are superior, quality wise. Especially given the price. But the true measure of
any part is: How well does it suit your needs?

Campagnolo is a great component group(o), But I have none on my bike, nor is it likely I ever will.
They specialize in the competitive market. I'm a tourist.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

 

[Chris Zacho "Th]

[email protected] (KinkyCowboy) Wrote:

>What time period did you thing Campag was better than Shimano? Or vice versa? Any of the quality
>groupsets is an order of magnitude better than they were 10 years ago, regardless of which
>manufacturer you choose, and the third rank groupsets are better than the top end ones were back
>then, certainly in terms of functionality.
>
>Kinky Cowboy

Ah, a newbie! LOL!

I can remember when there was no Dura Ace (I actually bought one of the first cranksets in the line,
it was actually designed with touring in mind, with a wide selection of rings available). When
Shimano was thought of as a mid range group, suitable only for the recreational market. The shifters
did not shift as well as campy (with notable exceptions, like the Rally). The hubs did not last as
long, The headsets were tricky to adjust, etcetera, etcetera, etcetra.

It wasn't until around the late seventy's early eighties that the japanese monster really took off.

May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner