is the man insane ? What is it with Americans ?

[whiteboytrash]

I hate to sound like Flyer here, but the reality of the Marion Jones confession is just one person getting caught and confessing. It is my belief that the person in 2nd, 3rd and so on just behind Marion Jones was very highly likely to been on something as well. In most of her races she barely eeked out the win. I have used PED's myself and know the difference in performance (10% +/- improvement over natural efforts - in a comparison of myself from natural to using. I also find this to be the case among many other athletes). 10% may not seem like much but it is and if the individuals are finishing just milliseconds behind Marion, I am skeptical that they are clean as well. So if everyone is going to condemn Marion perhaps the whole pack (perhaps exception to those few who finish dead last) should be considered as well.

Just my honest opinion

Well funny you mention that; Ekaterini Thanou who came second to Jones at the Sydney Games in the 100m is indeed embroiled in her own drug scandal. She's the one who faked the motorcycle accident to avoid a pre-game test at the 2004 Olympics...... shocking.... her criminal fate comes later this year... shes already been banned for 2 years......

 

[limerickman]

I hate to sound like Flyer here, but the reality of the Marion Jones confession is just one person getting caught and confessing. It is my belief that the person in 2nd, 3rd and so on just behind Marion Jones was very highly likely to been on something as well. In most of her races she barely eeked out the win. I have used PED's myself and know the difference in performance (10% +/- improvement over natural efforts - in a comparison of myself from natural to using. I also find this to be the case among many other athletes). 10% may not seem like much but it is and if the individuals are finishing just milliseconds behind Marion, I am skeptical that they are clean as well. So if everyone is going to condemn Marion perhaps the whole pack (perhaps exception to those few who finish dead last) should be considered as well.

Just my honest opinion

David Walsh covered this very issue last Sunday in the Times.

He said that the lady who finished second to Jones in 200m Sydney 2000 Games - was the same Greek sprinter who had "a motorbike accident" and tried to cover up the positive dope result at the 2004 games.
His point being, how do we know if 2nd, or 3rd, or 4th........are clean.


Ultimately - the respective international federations have a decision to make.
Either allow participants to dope or they adopt a zero tolerance policy to doping.

 

[limerickman]

Well funny you mention that; Ekaterini Thanou who came second to Jones at the Sydney Games in the 100m is indeed embroiled in her own drug scandal. She's the one who faked the motorcycle accident to avoid a pre-game test at the 2004 Olympics...... shocking.... her criminal fate comes later this year... shes already been banned for 2 years......

you beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Gus Riley]

I know this could be far and away out there and have the rancid stink of one of those conspiracy stories to it, but I find it hard to believe the latest batch of dopers Landis included are dumb enough to allow themselves to be doped.

When I watch the Lemond story I zero in on a comment he made concerning what the TdF director told him after he took the race lead and yellow jersey. He stated something along the lines that the director warned him to watch everything he took in...his water and food specifically. There are people here who do not want to see you as leader.

Could there be something to this? I just cannot believe these top athletes could be so stupid to dope with the knowledge that they WILL be caught, and knowing that to be caught is to be RUINED.

If they are dumb as dirt and guilty so be it. Can anyone be so stupid?!

 

[whiteboytrash]

you beat me to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes...... premature ejaculation..... Not my problem.

I have read several articles on the matter and Jones is going to prison. They are now going after Bonds. We are seeing the house of cards in US athletics coming down. Yes the Europeans noticeably the Germans doped in athletics but have since cleaned up their acts. The Americans are the last to come to the party. The athletes like Landis, Jones etc. are all a little flabbergasted by all this hence their denials. Landis just can't understand why he got busted. I mean he transfused with Lance for Christ sake - doesn't that count for anything ? He knows 95% of the peleton used drugs along side him... so why did he go down ? It wont do much and like Jones he'll admit but it won’t be today and won't be tomorrow but he will fess up. Maybe the threat of perjury would nail him ? All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it. Landis the same. He will lose again and be bankrupt for life....... he can drop around and see Lance and look at his 20 million dollar home and his set of 15 sports cars and think... "what the **** ?" –America listen up – where’s your moral fibre ? You’re full of ****.

 

[DawnDrifter]

Yes...... premature ejaculation..... Not my problem.

I have read several articles on the matter and Jones is going to prison. They are now going after Bonds. We are seeing the house of cards in US athletics coming down. Yes the Europeans noticeably the Germans doped in athletics but have since cleaned up their acts. The Americans are the last to come to the party. The athletes like Landis, Jones etc. are all a little flabbergasted by all this hence their denials. Landis just can't understand why he got busted. I mean he transfused with Lance for Christ sake - doesn't that count for anything ? He knows 95% of the peleton used drugs along side him... so why did he go down ? It wont do much and like Jones he'll admit but it won’t be today and won't be tomorrow but he will fess up. Maybe the threat of perjury would nail him ? All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it. Landis the same. He will lose again and be bankrupt for life....... he can drop around and see Lance and look at his 20 million dollar home and his set of 15 sports cars and think... "what the **** ?" –America listen up – where’s your moral fibre ? You’re full of ****.

to think i(along with millions of other cycling fans) sat up watching that particluar tour for 25 days(well past 1am) being utterly in awe of this freak of an athelete - only to find out later on that this same **** was on the gear.. dissapointed is an understatement

house of cards is a good way to put it.. whos next... nba, nfl, nhl, mls, mlb?? they seem to be all tainted

 

[Felt_Rider]

All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins.

When I talk to local athlete now I use my testimony of years past to help them understand the negative impact of using a controlled substance is to be taken more seriously. They may look at me and think that I have used for many years and I appear to be fine with no physical ailments from using and no legal problems, but there were problems that they do not see. However, with Landis, Marion and other big stars facing tremendous battles it has made a very public view of the damage concerning legal and personal impact. As exposure increases among star athletes the greater likelihood that young apsiring athletes will think more deeply about crossing over the line.

 

[Casa]

Too bad she couldn't have said what Mark McGwire said when confronted with steroid allegations, "I'm not here to talk about the past"...

How that guy got off totally free amazes me...

How did he get off totally free? He got passed up for the Hall of Fame. Other then that how can he get busted for anything? It wasn't against the rules of the game when he is alleged to have done PED's and they have no proof anyway. The congressional hearings were a joke. If they were really about fighting the use of steroids they would have had all current baseball players instead of bringing in people like McGwire. What he said was disappointing but, in reality, he was right about what the hearings should have been about.

 

[helmutRoole2]

...her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black [/color]America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it.

Damn you're racist. Aside from that, the money Jones banked from multi-milion-dolar endorsements... that's not going anywhere.

Hate to sound like Flyer, but it pays to dope.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Damn you're racist. Aside from that, the money Jones banked from multi-milion-dolar endorsements... that's not going anywhere.

Hate to sound like Flyer, but it pays to dope.

No I'm not.... sport in America in fundamentally racist. A load of pumped up/drugged up black athletes running around for the benefit of white people......

 

[Rolfrae]

Yes...... premature ejaculation..... Not my problem.

I have read several articles on the matter and Jones is going to prison. They are now going after Bonds. We are seeing the house of cards in US athletics coming down. Yes the Europeans noticeably the Germans doped in athletics but have since cleaned up their acts. The Americans are the last to come to the party. The athletes like Landis, Jones etc. are all a little flabbergasted by all this hence their denials. Landis just can't understand why he got busted. I mean he transfused with Lance for Christ sake - doesn't that count for anything ? He knows 95% of the peleton used drugs along side him... so why did he go down ? It wont do much and like Jones he'll admit but it won’t be today and won't be tomorrow but he will fess up. Maybe the threat of perjury would nail him ? All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it. Landis the same. He will lose again and be bankrupt for life....... he can drop around and see Lance and look at his 20 million dollar home and his set of 15 sports cars and think... "what the **** ?" –America listen up – where’s your moral fibre ? You’re full of ****.

Maybe it will be this visit to Lance's mansion that will get him the funds to enable an appeal without bankruptcy looming at the end. Maybe this visit has already taken place. Remember that Lance recently came out in defence of Landis in the press. Just think how many copies of his book Floyd would sell if it was a warts and all expose of the Postal years.

 

[Bro Deal]

Yes...... premature ejaculation..... Not my problem.

I have read several articles on the matter and Jones is going to prison. They are now going after Bonds. We are seeing the house of cards in US athletics coming down. Yes the Europeans noticeably the Germans doped in athletics but have since cleaned up their acts. The Americans are the last to come to the party. The athletes like Landis, Jones etc. are all a little flabbergasted by all this hence their denials. Landis just can't understand why he got busted. I mean he transfused with Lance for Christ sake - doesn't that count for anything ? He knows 95% of the peleton used drugs along side him... so why did he go down ? It wont do much and like Jones he'll admit but it won’t be today and won't be tomorrow but he will fess up. Maybe the threat of perjury would nail him ? All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it. Landis the same. He will lose again and be bankrupt for life....... he can drop around and see Lance and look at his 20 million dollar home and his set of 15 sports cars and think... "what the **** ?" –America listen up – where’s your moral fibre ? You’re full of ****.

Looks like someone cannot stand that his country keeps getting its ass kicked by not only all its former colonies but also France, Germany, and Spain. This sort of **** didn't happen under Queen Victoria.

 

[tonyzackery]

Yes...... premature ejaculation..... Not my problem.

I have read several articles on the matter and Jones is going to prison. They are now going after Bonds. We are seeing the house of cards in US athletics coming down. Yes the Europeans noticeably the Germans doped in athletics but have since cleaned up their acts. The Americans are the last to come to the party. The athletes like Landis, Jones etc. are all a little flabbergasted by all this hence their denials. Landis just can't understand why he got busted. I mean he transfused with Lance for Christ sake - doesn't that count for anything ? He knows 95% of the peleton used drugs along side him... so why did he go down ? It wont do much and like Jones he'll admit but it won’t be today and won't be tomorrow but he will fess up. Maybe the threat of perjury would nail him ? All of this is good... buddying young athletes looking up to Jones now know that using drugs can now come with the jail sentence..... her life is in ruins. She'll have to join the rest of black America in working three jobs just to cover her health care and support her children.... sad life but she chose it. Landis the same. He will lose again and be bankrupt for life....... he can drop around and see Lance and look at his 20 million dollar home and his set of 15 sports cars and think... "what the **** ?" –America listen up – where’s your moral fibre ? You’re full of ****.

As a Black American I take strong offense to this ignorant statement. You truly are just as your screenname describes...at least you intelligent enough to know who you are...you should take your prejudicial comments to stormfront or somewhere else for that matter...However, I have run into a number of you racist numbskulls during my short time being involved in cycling, so I guess I shouldn't have presumed there wouldn't be any on this worldwide forum...I feel sorry you and your kind...

 

[tonyzackery]

How did he get off totally free? He got passed up for the Hall of Fame. Other then that how can he get busted for anything? It wasn't against the rules of the game when he is alleged to have done PED's and they have no proof anyway. The congressional hearings were a joke. If they were really about fighting the use of steroids they would have had all current baseball players instead of bringing in people like McGwire. What he said was disappointing but, in reality, he was right about what the hearings should have been about.

Uh, is he under federal investigation for anything (ala Bonds)?????? He got off totally and has been left to lead a drama-free life, albeit in obscurity, but he's not being dogged by federal prosecutors...

 

[helmutRoole2]

No I'm not.... sport in America in fundamentally racist. A load of pumped up/drugged up black athletes running around for the benefit of white people......

You're right. All black Americans fit into the category you described above. They all work three jobs, hardly get by, wear sagging jeans, eat watermelon and fried chicken, belong to gangs, play professional sports until they test positive and, oh yeah, can't forget this one, they put caps in people's asses.

 

[Casa]

Uh, is he under federal investigation for anything (ala Bonds)?????? He got off totally and has been left to lead a drama-free life, albeit in obscurity, but he's not being dogged by federal prosecutors...

Well, one has grand jury testimony implicating himself as well as a number of others doing that as well. One has one guy saying he shot him up in a bathroom. One is still playing, the other is retired. One has broken the two most legendary records in American sports. McGwire got hit in the one place that was left simply based on one line before a circus show and a bunch of writers who didn't like that. Honestly part of the reason Bonds is treated so poorly is those same writers who feel they deserve everything and Bonds doesn't put up with it. You say McGwire got totally off, but what is he supposed to be busted based on? Assumptions? He got left out of the HOF because of those. Sounds like he got punished in the one way they really could. Punished due to journalists and message board posters assumptions...sound familiar?

 

[tonyzackery]

Well, one has grand jury testimony implicating himself as well as a number of others doing that as well. One has one guy saying he shot him up in a bathroom. One is still playing, the other is retired. One has broken the two most legendary records in American sports. McGwire got hit in the one place that was left simply based on one line before a circus show and a bunch of writers who didn't like that. Honestly part of the reason Bonds is treated so poorly is those same writers who feel they deserve everything and Bonds doesn't put up with it. You say McGwire got totally off, but what is he supposed to be busted based on? Assumptions? He got left out of the HOF because of those. Sounds like he got punished in the one way they really could. Punished due to journalists and message board posters assumptions...sound familiar?

Obviously, you and I have an opposing viewpoint on this subject. I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that...Not being in the Hof pales in comparison to being brought before a grand jury, I'm sure even you can agree to that...

 

[ad9898]

There are obviously a huge number of athletes out their who have used and are using drugs, and they should be caught and punished accordingly (lifetime bans, including anything to do with sport after they have retired, should at least make a few think).

I think also there are flaws in testing procedures and much more effort should be put in to getting this right. I honestly think that Floyd did not or did not knowingly take PED's on that stage to Morzine, and a shot of testosterone would certainly not of counted for much on what was an incredible ride.... I have my flame suit on ready , but hey if everyone agreed there would be no discussion

 

[FriendlyFred]

Could someone pls explain the beneficial effects of testosterone wrt cycling performance?

I could be totally wrong with this but I'm willing to give it a whirl....Steroids for cyclists are a lot like when baseball players use them. The steroids don't make you better able to hit or throw a baseball, or to pedal a bicycle. The benefit comes in they reduce the recovery time for the body and they are benficial in preventing and healing injuries. Again, using baseball as an example....Mark McQwire. His last three years in Oakland, he was ALWAYS hurt. He went to St Louis and magically NEVER was hurt. He was taking steroids during that time and they helped to prevent the injuries and to help him quickly heal from those he did get. When he went off the steroids, he magically was always hurt again. Classic example. In cycling, the steroids would help in recovering from a hard ride and/ or when you've bonked (as in the day after day grind of a race like the Tour...Floyd Landis is a classic example of this use), help in building the body up to prevent injuries (this obviously doesn't include injuries from crashes), and would make the body overall stronger.

I could be wrong, but there you go
ff

 

[Felt_Rider]

I honestly think that Floyd did not or did not knowingly take PED's on that stage to Morzine, and a shot of testosterone would certainly not of counted for much on what was an incredible ride.... I have my flame suit on ready , but hey if everyone agreed there would be no discussion

Since the inception of the news things just didn't add to me based on what I know about PED's, but the theory that he used tainted off season blood that was extracted between cycles of testosterone use makes a lot more sense to me. If that is the case than I am sure that he and his associates were extremely confused and surprised when the news broke. I won't go deeper into the discussion, but just say that this is the most reasonable theory that I have heard to date. Blood doping is far more effective for endurance performance than testosterone and I believe that was his primary goal and may not have tested his off season blood or even thought to do that. Vino's performance(s) almost mirror image Landis and his was blood doping. If one could get much out of a single dose of testosterone I would have saved a lot of money and reduced a lot of annoying injections back in the day.