is the man insane ? What is it with Americans ?

[tonyzackery]

So your regard for me as a human being is affected by the opinions I have.

Talk about Opinion Discrimination!

So the 100m finals at the Olympics are always usually competed between people of West African descent, because....... white guys are discriminated against as teenage track athletes???

Fact => African American SAT scores are over 250 points less than white scores on average, totally because.......African American students get ignored by the teacher??? My speculation would be that different races learn best in different environments. And the western education environment is set up basically to favor boring accountant-type personalities that can sit and listen to a teacher talk about mostly **** all day and not get distracted. Again we are talking generalizations. This is an important concept - GENERALIZATIONS. That means individuals can be anywhere on the number line, whether they're white or black or Latino or Chinese.

I don't formulate my opinions based on how I'm going to be regarded by others....so your response doesn't affect me one iota.....But perhaps it shows how much your life is being guided by impressing others if you thought I was going to be upset by it..

Fact is I believe in equal rights for all humans, and equal love, for want of a better term. But you can't solve any problems when the problem is not allowed to be addressed, as is the case generally in the political climate in America IMHO. I would have been one of the people marching for civil rights for minorities in the 60's. I am all against any form of discrimination against an individual based on race, which includes reverse-apartheid (affirmative action).

Silly, I'm not about to get into some socio-political debate with someone like you...you are superior...feel free to have the last work because I KNOW you will need it...

 

[tonyzackery]

what ? typical american speak ? what are you saying ? do you live in a white neighborhood ? yes, do you hang out with blacks ? no.... so shut the fark up and stop pretending you are a soul man... full of ****..... be honest and stop talking ****..... now what about Landis ? I regard you as a human.... full of ****..... ********.

You really should crawl back underneath the rock from which you came...don't expect any further responses from me...

 

[doctorSpoc]

So your regard for me as a human being is affected by the opinions I have.

Talk about Opinion Discrimination!

So the 100m finals at the Olympics are always usually competed between people of West African descent, because....... white guys are discriminated against as teenage track athletes???

Fact => African American SAT scores are over 250 points less than white scores on average, totally because.......African American students get ignored by the teacher??? My speculation would be that different races learn best in different environments. And the western education environment is set up basically to favor boring accountant-type personalities that can sit and listen to a teacher talk about mostly **** all day and not get distracted. Again we are talking generalizations. This is an important concept - GENERALIZATIONS. That means individuals can be anywhere on the number line, whether they're white or black or Latino or Chinese.

I don't formulate my opinions based on how I'm going to be regarded by others....so your response doesn't affect me one iota.....But perhaps it shows how much your life is being guided by impressing others if you thought I was going to be upset by it..

Fact is I believe in equal rights for all humans, and equal love, for want of a better term. But you can't solve any problems when the problem is not allowed to be addressed, as is the case generally in the political climate in America IMHO. I would have been one of the people marching for civil rights for minorities in the 60's. I am all against any form of discrimination against an individual based on race, which includes reverse-apartheid (affirmative action).

Crankyfeet are you completely an utterly daft? he said he formulated an opinion of YOU based on YOUR opinions that YOU, YOURSELF expressed... not on some generalizided opinion based on some socio-economic group that you belong to... that seems completely rational and reasonable to me.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Crankyfeet are you completely an utterly daft? he said he formulated an opinion of YOU based on YOUR opinions that YOU, YOURSELF expressed... not on some generalizided opinion based on some socio-economic group that you belong to... that seems completely rational and reasonable to me.

Yeah....I guess you are right. What I meant to say was that I thought he was a tool for casting judgment on another's value as a human being based on limited information gathered in a post.

Not many people know this, but I have an African American fraternal twin brother and his attack on me was indirectly an attack on my love for my brother.

I suppose having Mel Gibson as my avatar doesn't help the appearance of not being a bigot.

 

[Eldron]

Yeah....I guess you are right. What I meant to say was that I thought he was a tool for casting judgment on another's value as a human being based on limited information gathered in a post.

Not many people know this, but I have an African American fraternal twin brother and his attack on me was indirectly an attack on my love for my brother.

I suppose having Mel Gibson as my avatar doesn't help the appearance of not being a bigot.

As a South African I find this debate interesting - and weird because it's not been conducted by two South Africans.

Ah people - gotta love them - they will always find a way to discriminate - the car you drive, the skin you wear, the neighbourhood you live in, what god you pray to, the country you support etc etc.

Embrace it I say - the world would be so much poorer if we were all grey, Totoya driving, christians with 2.4 children, a white picket fence and 0.75 of a dog.

 

[Gregers]

Not many people know this, but I have an African American fraternal twin brother .

Blimey, that sounds like you have got the most intriguing backstory of anybody on here. Didn't I see you on Oprah, once?

 

[jhuskey]

As a South African I find this debate interesting - and weird because it's not been conducted by two South Africans.

Ah people - gotta love them - they will always find a way to discriminate - the car you drive, the skin you wear, the neighbourhood you live in, what god you pray to, the country you support etc etc.

Embrace it I say - the world would be so much poorer if we were all grey, Totoya driving, christians with 2.4 children, a white picket fence and 0.75 of a dog.

Give it a while. If you live long enough your hair will be all grey or all gone.
I myself am a tolerant person. I have Yankees from way up north that have moved in next to me and we get along.
But seriously,a bad attitude is not dictated by skin color.

 

[ad9898]

how about getting back to the original thread

 

[Felt_Rider]

how about getting back to the original thread

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider
Since the inception of the news things just didn't add to me based on what I know about PED's, but the theory that he used tainted off season blood that was extracted between cycles of testosterone use makes a lot more sense to me. If that is the case than I am sure that he and his associates were extremely confused and surprised when the news broke. I won't go deeper into the discussion, but just say that this is the most reasonable theory that I have heard to date. Blood doping is far more effective for endurance performance than testosterone and I believe that was his primary goal and may not have tested his off season blood or even thought to do that. Vino's performance(s) almost mirror image Landis and his was blood doping. If one could get much out of a single dose of testosterone I would have saved a lot of money and reduced a lot of annoying injections back in the day.

I stand by what i said, however what you have put forward here is a very credible argument and well put.

I understand and my statement was pure speculation derived originally from others, but seemed to be the most reasonable potential theory that I have heard to date. If I were guessing I would say that something did occur at that one stage and it seemed obivious to me just as when Vino (whom I rooted for initially) had extreme ups and downs. When I saw Vino make a huge turn around from the previous day the alarms were going off in my mind that something was up. I wanted to believe as many spectators that both Landis and Vino were making some kind of special heroic effort, but my past is tainted as well so I know better and I know more than the average spectator of sport.

 

[Eldron]

Give it a while. If you live long enough your hair will be all grey or all gone.
I myself am a tolerant person. I have Yankees from way up north that have moved in next to me and we get along.
But seriously,a bad attitude is not dictated by skin color.

Of course it's not - we all know bad attitude is most prevalent amongst people who don't drink Guinness.

And people who don't own bicycles.

People who drink Guinness then ride bicycles are a problem. Or Irish.

What was I saying again?

Ah yes - if I were Landis I'd take the case to the CAS - he got a 2-1 split at national level. Besides - in for a penny in for a pound. Let the biggest guns in world sports decide. Then sign him up for Team Astana and it's all good

 

[jhuskey]

Of course it's not - we all know bad attitude is most prevalent amongst people who don't drink Guinness.

And people who don't own bicycles.

People who drink Guinness then ride bicycles are a problem. Or Irish.

What was I saying again?

Ah yes - if I were Landis I'd take the case to the CAS - he got a 2-1 split at national level. Besides - in for a penny in for a pound. Let the biggest guns in world sports decide. Then sign him up for Team Astana and it's all good

The problem I have with alcohol is that the more I drink the smarter and better looking I get.
The attitude of others tend to be negative toward me I suspect out of jealousy as rise closer to the apex of perfection.
As far as Landis goes he and his PR team need to keep his name in the media light as much as possible to generate interest and cash.
You can't sell yesterdays news.

 

[slovakguy]

i'll give the man his due. he has to pursue this to the end with the cas. still see no chance for him to have this decision overturned until he explains how the exogenous testosterone got in the samples. i'm hoping that he and his legal staff concoct some beautiful theory of gossamer and gossip and uncover the vast french conspiracy that he and l.a. have hinted at all these years.

 

[earth_dweller]

I do wonder if he received an injection of funds from he-who-shall-not-be-named who finally made a public statement supporting Landis...mmmm

I have no admiration for Landis, not for continuing his 'fight'. he doped, got caught. Others doped and didn't get caught. that's it.

 

[Crankyfeet]

i'll give the man his due. he has to pursue this to the end with the cas. still see no chance for him to have this decision overturned until he explains how the exogenous testosterone got in the samples. i'm hoping that he and his legal staff concoct some beautiful theory of gossamer and gossip and uncover the vast french conspiracy that he and l.a. have hinted at all these years.

+1.

[ And Eldron. - The one guy on the arbitration panel who voted in his favor was the guy that Landis was able to nominate and appoint, so it was hardly surprising]

 

[Crankyfeet]

I do wonder if he received an injection of funds from he-who-shall-not-be-named who finally made a public statement supporting Landis...mmmm

I have no admiration for Landis, not for continuing his 'fight'. he doped, got caught. Others doped and didn't get caught. that's it.

I don't think so, but I think he realizes that the only way he can maintain the few remaining supporters he has would be to go down still maintaining his innocence.

 

[Casa]

Obviously, you and I have an opposing viewpoint on this subject. I'll just agree to disagree and leave it at that...Not being in the Hof pales in comparison to being brought before a grand jury, I'm sure even you can agree to that...

Does it? Let's keep in mind the context. McGwire has been out of the sport for six years and the only thing on him was one guy making a comment in a book. Bonds is still in the sport, had his trainer busted, was involved with BALCO and had a number of others make claims against him. In other words one is in line to meet (or have met) a grand jury and the other is not. One had evidence of some sort to warrant being called the other did not. The worst thing that can be done to McGwire (with the current lack of evidence) is to keep him out of the HOF. It's all about context. (please not that I did not claim to "leave it at that" and then post something new...that would be bad form.)

 

[doctorSpoc]

Yeah....I guess you are right. What I meant to say was that I thought he was a tool for casting judgment on another's value as a human being based on limited information gathered in a post.

Not many people know this, but I have an African American fraternal twin brother and his attack on me was indirectly an attack on my love for my brother.

I suppose having Mel Gibson as my avatar doesn't help the appearance of not being a bigot.

but Crankyfeet you are racist that is very obvious from your posts. most people are... truthfully i don't know how you can grow up in a culture like the US or even Canada and not be racist. i think if people would just come to terms with the fact that they are racist a lot of this mess would start to get cleaned up. i'm not saying you want to be, that you are by any kind of malice or that you are an evil person, but the fact remains that you are. and these type of views are not limited to "white" people, they are held by many "races" including "blacks" since they grow up being bombarded by the same **** day in and day out just like you are. look at what bombarding people with complete BS day in and day out can do.. americans were all gung ho for the war in irak and voted George Dubbayah in twice... ok, ok, i know it's really only about 25% (1/2 voted and of them only 1/2 voted for him.. but the others were complicit by their non-action in letting it happen)

do you you that any modern biologist will tell you that there is not bilogical basis for race? there is more genetic diversity within a race than between the races so race it really a myth. race is a socio-economic constuct... it's there because we will it to be there. we take a few superficial genetic traites and string them together and call them race. it's idiotic. lets have a brown haired, blue eyed race or tall and blond race or a short and fat race... this makes just about as much sense. science has realized the stupidty of this but most people, your self included haven't realized how stupid it is.

what percentage of the "black race" is constituted by the individuals in the finals at the 100m world championships? or lets make it even more broad than that.. what percentage of the "black race" is constitued by the blacks in the top 1000 atheletes at the 100m in the world? ...a puny, tiny percentage. so because a miniscule percentage of people who have similar genetic traits that allow them to run a 100m fast also have other completely unrelated traits (curly hair and darkskin) you are willing to say that in general black people are fast runners? that makes no sense because in the grander scheme of things the vast, vast majority of "blacks" (people with curly hair and dark skin) are much slower runners. it's only a miniscule small group of "blacks" that can run disproportionately faster than anyone else. if you look at the overlap of this ability on a distribution graph, almost all of the two population of "whites" and "blacks" run at the same speeds compared to their counter parts in the other population... so your generalization about black being able to run fast will neccesarily lead you to wrong conclusions in the general case... it's just plain stupid to think as you do.

it's the same with that SAT score stat you pulled out... lets say for the sake of arguement that this is true and that all of the difference in scores is completely due to genetics (which is absurd, but lets go with that). all black don't score the same it's a bell curve distribution... again overlap those two distributions and you'll see that again the vast, vast majority of the "populations" scores overlap... so again your generalization, in the general case doesn't make a lot of sense and will lead you to wrong conclusions most of the time.

what's even worse is taking the general case and applying it to an individual is even more stupid.

 

[Crankyfeet]

but Crankyfeet you are racist that is very obvious from your posts. most people are... truthfully i don't know how you can grow up in a culture like the US or even Canada and not be racist. i think if people would just come to terms with the fact that they are racist a lot of this mess would start to get cleaned up. i'm not saying you want to be, that you are by any kind of malice or that you are an evil person, but the fact remains that you are. and these type of views are not limited to "white" people, they are held by many "races" including "blacks" since they grow up being bombarded by the same **** day in and day out just like you are. look at what bombarding people with complete BS day in and day out can do.. americans were all gung ho for the war in irak and voted George Dubbayah in twice... ok, ok, i know it's really only about 25% (1/2 voted and of them only 1/2 voted for him.. but the others were complicit by their non-action in letting it happen)

do you you that any modern biologist will tell you that there is not bilogical basis for race? there is more genetic diversity within a race than between the races so race it really a myth. race is a socio-economic constuct... it's there because we will it to be there. we take a few superficial genetic traites and string them together and call them race. it's idiotic. lets have a brown haired, blue eyed race or tall and blond race or a short and fat race... this makes just about as much sense. science has realized the stupidty of this but most people, your self included haven't realized how stupid it is.

what percentage of the "black race" is constituted by the individuals in the finals at the 100m world championships? or lets make it even more broad than that.. what percentage of the "black race" is constitued by the blacks in the top 1000 atheletes at the 100m in the world? ...a puny, tiny percentage. so because a miniscule percentage of people who have similar genetic traits that allow them to run a 100m fast also have other completely unrelated traits (curly hair and darkskin) you are willing to say that in general black people are fast runners? that makes no sense because in the grander scheme of things the vast, vast majority of "blacks" (people with curly hair and dark skin) are much slower runners. it's only a miniscule small group of "blacks" that can run disproportionately faster than anyone else. if you look at the overlap of this ability on a distribution graph, almost all of the two population of "whites" and "blacks" run at the same speeds compared to their counter parts in the other population... so your generalization about black being able to run fast will neccesarily lead you to wrong conclusions in the general case... it's just plain stupid to think as you do.

it's the same with that SAT score stat you pulled out... lets say for the sake of arguement that this is true and that all of the difference in scores is completely due to genetics (which is absurd, but lets go with that). all black don't score the same it's a bell curve distribution... again overlap those two distributions and you'll see that again the vast, vast majority of the "populations" scores overlap... so again your generalization, in the general case doesn't make a lot of sense and will lead you to wrong conclusions most of the time.

what's even worse is taking the general case and applying it to an individual is even more stupid.

I like your views Doctorspoc. But I'm wary of hijacking this thread any further. I think I'll transfer this down to the soap box if you don't mind coming down. I appreciate you might think its a waste of time but I like to get the views of smart people as I am only interested in getting closer to the truth myself. I never think my views are necessarily correct. And I have also found that, like religion and politics, discussions about race are difficult to have on an objective, open-mind basis. But I'd appreciate if you'd give it a chance.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Bump

 

[doctorSpoc]

I like your views Doctorspoc. But I'm wary of hijacking this thread any further. I think I'll transfer this down to the soap box if you don't mind coming down. I appreciate you might think its a waste of time but I like to get the views of smart people as I am only interested in getting closer to the truth myself. I never think my views are necessarily correct. And I have also found that, like religion and politics, discussions about race are difficult to have on an objective, open-mind basis. But I'd appreciate if you'd give it a chance.

normally i don't like to hijack a thread either, but it's the OP himself that opened pandora's box this time, so in this case i really didn't feel that bad. also i didn't want to be complicit in my silence when i heard views that i think are wrong, long outdated and that have such far reaching and negative effects on society...

but i'm willing to retire my soap box as well.