is the man insane ? What is it with Americans ?

[Klodifan]

So your regard for me as a human being is affected by the opinions I have.

Talk about Opinion Discrimination!

So the 100m finals at the Olympics are always usually competed between people of West African descent, because....... white guys are discriminated against as teenage track athletes???

Fact => African American SAT scores are over 250 points less than white scores on average, totally because.......African American students get ignored by the teacher??? My speculation would be that different races learn best in different environments. And the western education environment is set up basically to favor boring accountant-type personalities that can sit and listen to a teacher talk about mostly **** all day and not get distracted. Again we are talking generalizations. This is an important concept - GENERALIZATIONS. That means individuals can be anywhere on the number line, whether they're white or black or Latino or Chinese.

I don't formulate my opinions based on how I'm going to be regarded by others....so your response doesn't affect me one iota.....But perhaps it shows how much your life is being guided by impressing others if you thought I was going to be upset by it..

Fact is I believe in equal rights for all humans, and equal love, for want of a better term. But you can't solve any problems when the problem is not allowed to be addressed, as is the case generally in the political climate in America IMHO. I would have been one of the people marching for civil rights for minorities in the 60's. I am all against any form of discrimination against an individual based on race, which includes reverse-apartheid (affirmative action).

actually, your argument is fallacious because you are mistaking racial differences with economic differences. It is an economic disparity that accounts for lower test scores. If one considers all socioeconomic factors racial differences are negligible. respectfully...

 

[Klodifan]

but Crankyfeet you are racist that is very obvious from your posts. most people are... truthfully i don't know how you can grow up in a culture like the US or even Canada and not be racist. i think if people would just come to terms with the fact that they are racist a lot of this mess would start to get cleaned up. i'm not saying you want to be, that you are by any kind of malice or that you are an evil person, but the fact remains that you are. and these type of views are not limited to "white" people, they are held by many "races" including "blacks" since they grow up being bombarded by the same **** day in and day out just like you are. look at what bombarding people with complete BS day in and day out can do.. americans were all gung ho for the war in irak and voted George Dubbayah in twice... ok, ok, i know it's really only about 25% (1/2 voted and of them only 1/2 voted for him.. but the others were complicit by their non-action in letting it happen)

do you you that any modern biologist will tell you that there is not bilogical basis for race? there is more genetic diversity within a race than between the races so race it really a myth. race is a socio-economic constuct... it's there because we will it to be there. we take a few superficial genetic traites and string them together and call them race. it's idiotic. lets have a brown haired, blue eyed race or tall and blond race or a short and fat race... this makes just about as much sense. science has realized the stupidty of this but most people, your self included haven't realized how stupid it is.

what percentage of the "black race" is constituted by the individuals in the finals at the 100m world championships? or lets make it even more broad than that.. what percentage of the "black race" is constitued by the blacks in the top 1000 atheletes at the 100m in the world? ...a puny, tiny percentage. so because a miniscule percentage of people who have similar genetic traits that allow them to run a 100m fast also have other completely unrelated traits (curly hair and darkskin) you are willing to say that in general black people are fast runners? that makes no sense because in the grander scheme of things the vast, vast majority of "blacks" (people with curly hair and dark skin) are much slower runners. it's only a miniscule small group of "blacks" that can run disproportionately faster than anyone else. if you look at the overlap of this ability on a distribution graph, almost all of the two population of "whites" and "blacks" run at the same speeds compared to their counter parts in the other population... so your generalization about black being able to run fast will neccesarily lead you to wrong conclusions in the general case... it's just plain stupid to think as you do.

it's the same with that SAT score stat you pulled out... lets say for the sake of arguement that this is true and that all of the difference in scores is completely due to genetics (which is absurd, but lets go with that). all black don't score the same it's a bell curve distribution... again overlap those two distributions and you'll see that again the vast, vast majority of the "populations" scores overlap... so again your generalization, in the general case doesn't make a lot of sense and will lead you to wrong conclusions most of the time.

what's even worse is taking the general case and applying it to an individual is even more stupid.

hey, hey everybody! doctorspoc got an A in anthropology 101!

aside from calling out cranky, the rest of your post is well said. the entire argument about finding more genetic diversity within ethnic groups than between ethnic groups is scientific fact. racial groups is scientific fiction.

 

[Crankyfeet]

actually, your argument is fallacious because you are mistaking racial differences with economic differences. It is an economic disparity that accounts for lower test scores. If one considers all socioeconomic factors racial differences are negligible. respectfully...

I can see I made a big mistake bringing my views into this forum. There are too many fixed views on this subject, that any amount of fact showing is not going to change.

I just want to leave saying I don't consider myself a racist, despite the labeling thats been going on here. If I'm a racist then anyone is a racist who notices a different skin color. I have many African American friends and I am vehemently against any form of racial stereotyping or discrimination that affects the judgment of any individual, be they African American, Caucasian, Asian or any mixture of the above.

The subject is too emotionally charged for debate. I can only shudder to think how Galileo and Copernicus were treated by the PC crowd when they first proposed that the earth may not be the center of the Universe and it may be round, not flat. But that isn't to say my views are correct, its just to say that even if they warranted discussion, it aint gonna happen here or probably anywhere at the moment.

I just feel sorry for all the adolescents of all races who have to suffer through a black box education system that doesn't take into account that people learn in different ways.

 

[Klodifan]

I can see I made a big mistake bringing my views into this forum. There are too many fixed views on this subject, that any amount of fact showing is not going to change.

I just want to leave saying I don't consider myself a racist, despite the labeling thats been going on here. If I'm a racist then anyone is a racist who notices a different skin color. I have many African American friends and I am vehemently against any form of racial stereotyping or discrimination that affects the judgment of any individual, be they African American, Caucasian, Asian or any mixture of the above.

The subject is too emotionally charged for debate. I can only shudder to think how Galileo and Copernicus were treated by the PC crowd when they first proposed that the earth may not be the center of the Universe and it may be round, not flat. But that isn't to say my views are correct, its just to say that even if they warranted discussion, it aint gonna happen here or probably anywhere at the moment.

I just feel sorry for all the adolescents of all races who have to suffer through a black box education system that doesn't take into account that people learn in different ways.

I don't think you should feel badly about stating your opinions on the board. and I havent been to the soap box yet, but if there is another thread down there, I'll go post there.

anyways, I consider myself pretty open minded while having firm convictions at the same time. Some may think its a contradiction, but that is only a superficial assessment. Much like the superficial remarks implying your racism.

For what it's worth, I don't think you are a racist and I understand the intent of your posts. I hope people can differentiate between the two. In any case, it is aways a delicate balance and that is unfortunate...

 

[Bro Deal]

I can see I made a big mistake bringing my views into this forum. There are too many fixed views on this subject, that any amount of fact showing is not going to change.

I just want to leave saying I don't consider myself a racist, despite the labeling thats been going on here. If I'm a racist then anyone is a racist who notices a different skin color. I have many African American friends and I am vehemently against any form of racial stereotyping or discrimination that affects the judgment of any individual, be they African American, Caucasian, Asian or any mixture of the above.

The subject is too emotionally charged for debate. I can only shudder to think how Galileo and Copernicus were treated by the PC crowd when they first proposed that the earth may not be the center of the Universe and it may be round, not flat. But that isn't to say my views are correct, its just to say that even if they warranted discussion, it aint gonna happen here or probably anywhere at the moment.

I just feel sorry for all the adolescents of all races who have to suffer through a black box education system that doesn't take into account that people learn in different ways.

Anything dealing with race is pretty much taboo in the U.S. It cannot be talked about without someone throwing the word "racist" around, no matter how civilized the language and rationale. When people start calling cab drivers (who I don't imagine would ever turn down safe money) racists because they don't want to risk their lives picking up shady looking fares then you know that you will never get any sort of argument based on reason.

 

[Crankyfeet]

Anything dealing with race is pretty much taboo in the U.S. It cannot be talked about without someone throwing the word "racist" around, no matter how civilized the language and rationale. When people start calling cab drivers (who I don't imagine would ever turn down safe money) racists because they don't want to risk their lives picking up shady looking fares then you know that you will never get any sort of argument based on reason.

I speculate that discussion is discouraged because a powerful majority wish to protect the current paradigm because it benefits them to keep it at all costs. As you say, it is hard to discuss the issue, no matter how altruistic the intent.

 

[doctorSpoc]

hey, hey everybody! doctorspoc got an A in anthropology 101!

aside from calling out cranky, the rest of your post is well said. the entire argument about finding more genetic diversity within ethnic groups than between ethnic groups is scientific fact. racial groups is scientific fiction.

ok, last time to the soap box i promise... but i think this is important.. at least to me it is...

i think you don't really understand where i'm coming from... being called a racist has such a stigma attached to it that no one wants to painted with that brush because it can be so damaging to one's reputation. so i understand the desire to not be called racist. but the reality is that i don't think i've ever met anyone that doesn't possess some racist, prejudicial attitudes and is as a result a racist... i'm racist! even though i know that it's complete and utter BS... every now and then i find those thoughts creeping into my brain. like i said, your are constantly being bombarded with these views subtly and not so subtly every day. it would take quite an exceptional person to not be effected by this. but if i didn't have the courage to acknowledge the fact that i'm capable of being a racist.. that i am racist... i couldn't and wouldn't be vigilant and chase those thoughts away when they creep up. you don't need to burning crosses on people's lawns and lynching people to be a racist for the vast majority it's much more subtle than that.

in your posts whether you want to acknowledge it or not you were espousing racist, prejudicial attitudes, whether they were as a result of just plain ignorance of certain facst (as they say, a "little knowledge" can be a dangerous thing) or out of malice (i don't think so) is really neither here nor there. it doesn't change the fact that the ideas were racist and prejudicial... i don't think your post are subtle at all in this reguard.

i don't know if you are familiar with Jane Elliot... does the blue eyed, brown eyed diversity training? it was pretty eye opening to see such a strong woman who is as knowledgeable and aware of these issues break down and cry ins sorrow when acknowledging that even she fights her own racism on a daily basis. it's like an addiction.. step one is acknowledging that you have those thought and attitudes before you can have any hope of dealing with them in any meaningful way.

 

[wolfix]

i don't know if you are familiar with Jane Elliot... does the blue eyed, brown eyed diversity training? it was pretty eye opening to see such a strong woman who is as knowledgeable and aware of these issues break down and cry ins sorrow when acknowledging that even she fights her own racism on a daily basis. it's like an addiction.. step one is acknowledging that you have those thought and attitudes before you can have any hope of dealing with them in any meaningful way.

Funny you should mention Jane....... I dated her daughter Sarah....If it wasn't for Jane I could have seen myself with her daughterfor the rest of my life. ....... But Jane was always bullying her around.......

Several years ago Jane came back to Iowa. I was seeing her daughter at that time. Of couse Jane and I never got along. It was at this time there was a Jewish individual who has made several documentaries on diversity. He was talking to Jane about a possibility of a movie about her life since the blue eye, brown eye saga.
She would always bring up the subject of the movie producer being a Jew...... She called him "that Jew from Iowa City"....... She could not mention anyone without telling of their background........

Jane is one of the strongest women I have ever known.....However, that is not always a good thing. Her daughter was a mess when her mother was part of her life.
Jane is a extremely judgemental woman who has destroyed her childrens lives with her bullying..........

Her diversity action is a money maker for her. She made an industry out of what she has done.

Jane is one of the strongest women I have ever known.....She has never cried real tears in her life.You have to have a heart before you can cry real tears.

 

[nns1400]

i don't know if you are familiar with Jane Elliot... does the blue eyed, brown eyed diversity training? it was pretty eye opening to see such a strong woman who is as knowledgeable and aware of these issues break down and cry ins sorrow when acknowledging that even she fights her own racism on a daily basis. it's like an addiction.. step one is acknowledging that you have those thought and attitudes before you can have any hope of dealing with them in any meaningful way.

Where's a "vomit" emoticon when you need it?

 

[wolfix]

Where's a "vomit" emoticon when you need it?

You are familiar with the lady too?

 

[tonyzackery]

Does it? Let's keep in mind the context. McGwire has been out of the sport for six years and the only thing on him was one guy making a comment in a book. Bonds is still in the sport, had his trainer busted, was involved with BALCO and had a number of others make claims against him. In other words one is in line to meet (or have met) a grand jury and the other is not. One had evidence of some sort to warrant being called the other did not. The worst thing that can be done to McGwire (with the current lack of evidence) is to keep him out of the HOF. It's all about context. (please not that I did not claim to "leave it at that" and then post something new...that would be bad form.)

Come on man, don't get stuck on stupid...Not being in the HoF versus being dogged by federal prosecutors - take your pick...

Furthermore, this game is not played by your rules, so your reference to "bad form" means nothing...

 

[Crankyfeet]

Come on man, don't get stuck on stupid...Not being in the HoF versus being dogged by federal prosecutors - take your pick...

Furthermore, this game is not played by your rules, so your reference to "bad form" means nothing...

Yeah, but when a man say's he's going to do something and then straight away, breaks his word, I have low regard for that man's character.

 

[cyclingheroes]

The problem I have with alcohol is that the more I drink the smarter and better looking I get.............

Sounds familiar...

 

[jhuskey]

Sounds familiar...

Right now I am a 10 on a 5 scale.
BTW: The weather is perfect for cycling here ,cool and dry.
Good for cycling and and wine but not so good for the fairer sex.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Right now I am a 10 on a 5 scale.
BTW: The weather is perfect for cycling here ,cool and dry.
Good for cycling and and wine but not so good for the fairer sex.

Here the weather is perfect for cycling as well: cool, sunny and dry. Perfect for wine.

I started to prepare for my first MTB race (ever). December 2 is the day... It's not a long race (46 km) but its on a Dutch beach (sand)... good training for the next season and fun...

 

[Yojimbo_]

Another hijacked thread that has gone completely off topic.

If you racists want to spout your racist views, how about opening a new topic so I can choose not to read your garbage.

No wonder people are abandoning this forum.

 

[jhuskey]

Another hijacked thread that has gone completely off topic.

If you racists want to spout your racist views, how about opening a new topic so I can choose not to read your garbage.

No wonder people are abandoning this forum.

People always abandon the cycling forums this time of the season as it is the end of the cycling season.
They really don't abandon they just get distracted.

CH: T. will be back next weekend and I hope he will come with some good Suisse cycling gossip.
Keep the vino cool!

 

[Klodifan]

in your posts whether you want to acknowledge it or not you were espousing racist, prejudicial attitudes, whether they were as a result of just plain ignorance of certain facst (as they say, a "little knowledge" can be a dangerous thing) or out of malice (i don't think so) is really neither here nor there. it doesn't change the fact that the ideas were racist and prejudicial... i don't think your post are subtle at all in this reguard.

oh, bite me!

why is race a touchy topic? because people like you are so quick to call people "racist and prejudicial". the fact is that you hide behind a veil of a so-called enlightened self-awareness when in reality you simply stir the pot and offer little substance to an issue that needs addressing.

and for the record, I didnt make any racist remarks. I simply mocked your lecture on introductory anthropology. here's a newsflash, doc: you don't hold a monopoly on intellectual thought. sooo, sorry to disappoint. please find another niche.

 

[Gregers]

please find another niche.

Agreed, Klodi, take it elsewhere.
We've only just seen the back of Tommy the Troll with his 'Nike Are Guilty' obsessions. In its place we've got racial banalities and We Are All Guilty.
Can't we all just get back to some honest doping talk and the old staples of wild supposition and rumour.

 

[jhuskey]

Agreed, Klodi, take it elsewhere.
We've only just seen the back of Tommy the Troll with his 'Nike Are Guilty' obsessions. In its place we've got racial banalities and We Are All Guilty.
Can't we all just get back to some honest doping talk and the old staples of wild supposition and rumour.

Not guilty!
I would rather post about sex and alcohol.I feel that both deserve more study and evaluation