Is this guy naive or what?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Precious Pup, Jul 11, 2003.

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  1. Precious Pup

    Precious Pup Guest

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  2. Scott C

    Scott C Guest

  3. Marcus Coles

    Marcus Coles Guest

    Precious Pup wrote:
    > "I'm sure that the Shimano bashers will find it hard to believe that Shimano's motives in this are
    > altruistic, but I can't think of anything else."
    >
    >
    > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E282882.70106%40sheldonbrown.com

    Naive, the man you brought us the performance gift of POWerwheels, surely you jest.

    What do you see as the real reason for Shimano's introduction of an improved freewheel design?
    Crushing SunRace? Worries about Red Chinese competition?

    Marcus
     
  4. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Naive is not a word that springs to mind when describing Sheldon Brown.

    As long as you're not discussing politics...

    Mark "scurrying for cover" Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  5. "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Naive is not a word that springs to mind when describing Sheldon Brown.
    >
    > As long as you're not discussing politics...
    >
    > Mark "scurrying for cover" Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695
    > ti frame

    Mark, what are you doing with that lovely chainstay sticking out of your ear?
     
  6. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:23:22 -0400, Marcus Coles <[email protected]> may have said:

    >Precious Pup wrote:
    >> "I'm sure that the Shimano bashers will find it hard to believe that Shimano's motives in this
    >> are altruistic, but I can't think of anything else."
    >>
    >>
    >> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E282882.70106%40sheldonbrown.com
    >
    >
    >Naive, the man you brought us the performance gift of POWerwheels, surely you jest.
    >
    >What do you see as the real reason for Shimano's introduction of an improved freewheel design?
    >Crushing SunRace? Worries about Red Chinese competition?

    My guess: Shimano has (correctly, IMO) identified the "low end" market as the place where the high
    end gets its seed interest, and also as a place where people with Cadillac tastes and a Yugo budget
    exist in more than adequate numbers for such a product to sell. Additionally, they probably do, as
    you posit, feel that unless they can continue to innovate at the low end, they will lose market
    share to Taiwan, Korea, and China.

    ---
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.

    Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
  7. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    "Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> "Dave Thompson" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >Naive is not a word that springs to mind when describing Sheldon Brown.
    >>
    >> As long as you're not discussing politics...
    >>
    >> Mark "scurrying for cover" Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695
    >> ti frame
    >
    >Mark, what are you doing with that lovely chainstay sticking out of your ear?

    I was on the way to the shower to check its "dampening" qualities.

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  8. From what I've noticed over the decades, ANYTHING in this industry that actually gives cyclists a
    freedom of choice must be altruistic!

    The narrow minded will always bash it in favor of their one size fits all mentality.

    May you have the wind at your back. And a really low gear for the hills! Chris

    Chris'Z Corner "The Website for the Common Bicyclist": http://www.geocities.com/czcorner
     
  9. Precious Pup

    Precious Pup Guest

    Marcus Coles wrote:
    >
    > Precious Pup wrote:
    > > "I'm sure that the Shimano bashers will find it hard to believe that Shimano's motives in this
    > > are altruistic, but I can't think of anything else."
    > >
    > >
    > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E282882.70106%40sheldonbrown.com
    >
    > Naive, the man you brought us the performance gift of POWerwheels, surely you jest.

    I'm teasing. I regret my comment -- in actual fact, I have a great deal of respect for Sheldon.

    > What do you see as the real reason for Shimano's introduction of an improved freewheel design?

    Profit. Some have claimed that to this day more freewheels are sold _worldwide_ than freehubs. I
    don't know if the claim is true.

    > Crushing SunRace? Worries about Red Chinese competition?

    I would if I was running Shimano.
     
  10. On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:23:22 -0400, Marcus Coles <[email protected]> wrote:

    >What do you see as the real reason for Shimano's introduction of an improved freewheel design?
    >Crushing SunRace? Worries about Red Chinese competition?

    Well, the ability of department store specials to move to 11 tooth tops while still being able to
    use Shimano might be something. Maybe the Corporate Spies stole that design from SunRace, patented
    it first, and now the comeback of SunRace is indefinitely delayed.

    Of course, there are some who would ask who gave the paranoiac a crackpipe.

    Jasper
     
  11. On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:35:10 GMT, Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

    >My guess: Shimano has (correctly, IMO) identified the "low end" market as the place where the high
    >end gets its seed interest, and also as a place where people with Cadillac tastes and a Yugo budget
    >exist in more than adequate numbers for such a product to sell. Additionally, they probably do, as
    >you posit, feel that unless they can continue to innovate at the low end, they will lose market
    >share to Taiwan, Korea, and China.

    I'll lay 2:1 odds that Shimano sells more Tourney and Cx01 stuff than all other groups combined, in
    profit terms. The low end is a much more cutthroat business than the high end, but there is still
    definitely room for components that are better than the rest at minimal cost increase.

    Jasper
     
  12. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 22:48:36 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] (Chris Zacho "The Wheelman") may
    have said:

    >From what I've noticed over the decades, ANYTHING in this industry that actually gives cyclists a
    >freedom of choice must be altruistic!

    Marketing people discovered long ago that if you give someone a choice between A and B instead of
    just "Here's the current version, take it or leave it", the idea of not buying *either* of the items
    just never seems to occur to them. If the choice is "This or keep looking", they'll walk out with
    nothing too often.

    Altruism doesn't even have to enter into it. Commercial savvy is an adequate explanation. And I, for
    one, will be loathe to complain.

    ---
    My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.

    Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something, it's also possible that I'm busy.
     
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