Is Turner right about bushings?

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Per Löwdin, Feb 25, 2004.

  1. Per Löwdin

    Per Löwdin Guest

    Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
    bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
    sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.

    "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
    balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates that
    "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after being
    exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
    tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
    even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
    http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html

    Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
    Turner bushings?

    Per http://lowdin.nu
     
    Tags:


  2. Miles Todd

    Miles Todd Guest

    Per Löwdin wrote:
    > Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
    > bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
    > sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
    >
    > "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
    > balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates
    > that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after
    > being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
    > tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
    > even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
    > http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
    >
    > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
    > Turner bushings?
    >
    > Per http://lowdin.nu
    >
    >

    Yes, Turner is right. Well designed bushings can last forever, and stay nice and tight for
    the duration.

    The drive to bearings for the industry in general was marketing-driven more than anything. As long
    as the buyers can be conviced that bearings are better, that's what will sell better, and hence rule
    the marketplace.

    Miles
     
  3. miles todd wrote:

    >
    >
    > Per Löwdin wrote:
    >
    >> Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
    >> bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized
    >> got sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
    >>
    >> "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of
    >> the balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what
    >> creates that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel
    >> rusts after being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long
    >> lasting, tight tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick
    >> with bushings even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is
    >> here http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
    >> Turner bushings?
    >>
    >> Per http://lowdin.nu
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    > Yes, Turner is right. Well designed bushings can last forever, and stay nice and tight for the
    > duration.
    >
    > The drive to bearings for the industry in general was marketing-driven more than anything. As long
    > as the buyers can be conviced that bearings are better, that's what will sell better, and hence
    > rule the marketplace.
    >
    > Miles
    >

    I don't know for sure, but I am shopping to replace my '98 Ellsworth Truth with bushings because
    I've gotten dissatisfied with the slop in the rear end. I've replaced all the bushings last spring,
    have no noticable play in the rear, but still feel it on the trail. It seems that I am noticing it
    more now than in the past, perhaps it has gotten worse, perhaps I am more sensitive to it. Others
    have commented to me that this is not an unusual complaint about the Truth. High on my list (as of
    today) is the Ventana El Saltamontes, a similar 4-bar design but with bearings, doubled up in fact,
    for a stiffer rear. Slap a Romic coil over on that and I think I'll have one great ride!

    --
    Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)
     
  4. "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Maa%[email protected]...

    > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has
    had
    > problems with their Turner bushings?

    Yes, he is right.

    The back end is NOTICABLY stiffer (laterally) than other 4 bar bikes, with bearings, that I've
    ridden (Truth and Id).

    Maintenance is a snap as well since they are all fitted with zerk fittings. 5 minutes of squirting
    grease in the ports every few weeks in the slop and they are good to go. DIY replacement after a few
    years is also a snap.
     
  5. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Maa%[email protected]...
    > Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
    > bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
    > sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
    >
    > "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
    > balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load
    all
    > of the time. Over time this is what creates that "crunchy" feel people
    often
    > comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after being exposed to water, grit and
    > grime again found in our everyday riding. So
    long
    > lasting, tight tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why
    we
    > have chosen to stick with bushings even when others marketing campaigns
    say
    > "bearings are king"." The full text is here http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
    >
    > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has
    had
    > problems with their Turner bushings?
    >
    > Per http://lowdin.nu
    >
    >
    As Miles said, a properly designed bushing is as good or better in this application. the problem is
    that a lot of bushings that gained a reputation for wearing out prematurely were not made out of the
    best material for the use. There are many different materials that can be used for bushings and they
    all offer different benefits. common thermoplastics used for bushings are Nylon, Polyester, Teflon,
    and a multitude of different blends within these families. In addition, there are metallic bushings
    that can also do a very good job especially those impregnated with teflon or other "greasy"
    substances.

    My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure crap. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
    access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material called
    Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some applications that
    we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn would actually show
    wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far superior to what
    came stock.

    Michael
     
  6. Westie

    Westie Guest

    Michael Paul wrote: <snip>
    > My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure crap. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
    > access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material
    > called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some
    > applications that we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn
    > would actually show wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far
    > superior to what came stock.

    Thought of going into business - custom aftermarket bushings? "For when you want the best for
    your bike..."
    --
    Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)
     
  7. In article <Maa%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
    > bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
    > sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
    >
    > "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
    > balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates
    > that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after
    > being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
    > tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
    > even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
    > http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
    >
    > Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
    > Turner bushings?
    >
    > Per http://lowdin.nu
    >

    What he says is true but I think his reasoning has more to do with saving his own money then ours.
    If the bearings are easy to remove like on a Giant NRS, then they can be rotated every month to
    prevent what he describles. Personally I much prefer my FSR bearings dieing suddenly once a year to
    my old FSR bushings performing good for the first week and getting progressivly worse each day
    after that.

    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Michael Paul wrote: <snip>
    > > My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure crap. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
    > > access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material
    > > called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some
    > > applications that we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn
    > > would actually show wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were
    > > far superior to what came stock.
    >
    > Thought of going into business - custom aftermarket bushings? "For when you want the best for your
    > bike..."
    >

    Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  9. > Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
    >

    Make that bear=beat.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  10. "Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    Personally I much prefer my FSR bearings dieing suddenly
    > once a year to my old FSR bushings performing good for the first week and getting progressivly
    > worse each day after that.

    You're comparing apples and oranges.
     
  11. G.T.

    G.T. Guest

    "Michael Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:%rg%[email protected]...
    >

    > My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure crap. When they wore
    out,
    > I (forutnately I had access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-
    > like material called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in
    > some applications
    that
    > we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn would actually show
    > wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far superior to what
    > came stock.
    >

    Bushings are one of the reasons the 5 Spot wasn't originally at the top of my list. I guess because
    of my poor experience with creaking on my DBR and GT before it. I really like quiet bikes and those
    two bikes developed some nasty creaks after riding in wet weather.

    I'm hoping that with the better quality bushings and zerk fittings on the 5 Spot that that won't be
    a problem.

    Greg
     
  12. Michael Paul

    Michael Paul Guest

    "G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:Yep%[email protected]...
    >
    I guess because of my poor experience with creaking on my DBR and
    > GT before it. I really like quiet bikes and those two bikes developed
    some
    > nasty creaks after riding in wet weather.
    >
    > I'm hoping that with the better quality bushings and zerk fittings on the
    5
    > Spot that that won't be a problem.
    >
    > Greg
    >
    >

    Well, my Yeti has no bushings or bearings yet it seems to have it's own unique set of creaks!

    zerk fittings should help a lot. A guy down this way has been riding his 5-spot for about 6 months
    now and I haven't heard about any issues he's had yet.

    Michael
     
  13. Mark Hickey

    Mark Hickey Guest

    Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
    >
    >Make that bear=beat.

    For a minute there, I thought you must have hit the lottery...

    Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
     
  14. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
    > Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
    > >
    > >Make that bear=beat.
    >
    > For a minute there, I thought you must have hit the lottery...
    >
    > Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
    >
    >

    I'm waiting for the new thread to start by Mikey J Clownpharmasist "Mountainbikers advocate beating
    of bears!"
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
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