Is Turner right about bushings?



P

Per Löwdin

Guest
Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.

"Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates that
"crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after being
exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
Turner bushings?

Per http://lowdin.nu
 
M

Miles Todd

Guest
Per Löwdin wrote:
> Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
> bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
> sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
>
> "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
> balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates
> that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after
> being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
> tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
> even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
> http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
> Turner bushings?
>
> Per http://lowdin.nu
>
>

Yes, Turner is right. Well designed bushings can last forever, and stay nice and tight for
the duration.

The drive to bearings for the industry in general was marketing-driven more than anything. As long
as the buyers can be conviced that bearings are better, that's what will sell better, and hence rule
the marketplace.

Miles
 
C

Craig Brossman

Guest
miles todd wrote:

>
>
> Per Löwdin wrote:
>
>> Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
>> bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized
>> got sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
>>
>> "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of
>> the balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what
>> creates that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel
>> rusts after being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long
>> lasting, tight tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick
>> with bushings even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is
>> here http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
>>
>> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
>> Turner bushings?
>>
>> Per http://lowdin.nu
>>
>>
>
>
> Yes, Turner is right. Well designed bushings can last forever, and stay nice and tight for the
> duration.
>
> The drive to bearings for the industry in general was marketing-driven more than anything. As long
> as the buyers can be conviced that bearings are better, that's what will sell better, and hence
> rule the marketplace.
>
> Miles
>

I don't know for sure, but I am shopping to replace my '98 Ellsworth Truth with bushings because
I've gotten dissatisfied with the slop in the rear end. I've replaced all the bushings last spring,
have no noticable play in the rear, but still feel it on the trail. It seems that I am noticing it
more now than in the past, perhaps it has gotten worse, perhaps I am more sensitive to it. Others
have commented to me that this is not an unusual complaint about the Truth. High on my list (as of
today) is the Ventana El Saltamontes, a similar 4-bar design but with bearings, doubled up in fact,
for a stiffer rear. Slap a Romic coil over on that and I think I'll have one great ride!

--
Craig Brossman, Durango Colorado (remove ".nospam" to reply)
 
P

P E T E F A G E

Guest
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Maa%[email protected]...

> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has
had
> problems with their Turner bushings?

Yes, he is right.

The back end is NOTICABLY stiffer (laterally) than other 4 bar bikes, with bearings, that I've
ridden (Truth and Id).

Maintenance is a snap as well since they are all fitted with zerk fittings. 5 minutes of squirting
grease in the ports every few weeks in the slop and they are good to go. DIY replacement after a few
years is also a snap.
 
M

Michael Paul

Guest
"Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Maa%[email protected]...
> Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
> bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
> sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
>
> "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
> balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load
all
> of the time. Over time this is what creates that "crunchy" feel people
often
> comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after being exposed to water, grit and
> grime again found in our everyday riding. So
long
> lasting, tight tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why
we
> have chosen to stick with bushings even when others marketing campaigns
say
> "bearings are king"." The full text is here http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has
had
> problems with their Turner bushings?
>
> Per http://lowdin.nu
>
>
As Miles said, a properly designed bushing is as good or better in this application. the problem is
that a lot of bushings that gained a reputation for wearing out prematurely were not made out of the
best material for the use. There are many different materials that can be used for bushings and they
all offer different benefits. common thermoplastics used for bushings are Nylon, Polyester, Teflon,
and a multitude of different blends within these families. In addition, there are metallic bushings
that can also do a very good job especially those impregnated with teflon or other "greasy"
substances.

My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure ****. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material called
Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some applications that
we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn would actually show
wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far superior to what
came stock.

Michael
 
W

Westie

Guest
Michael Paul wrote: <snip>
> My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure ****. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
> access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material
> called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some
> applications that we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn
> would actually show wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far
> superior to what came stock.

Thought of going into business - custom aftermarket bushings? "For when you want the best for
your bike..."
--
Westie (Replace 'invalid' with 'yahoo' when replying.)
 
C

Chris Phillipo

Guest
In article <Maa%[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Turner has stuck to bushings in their suspension. A lot has been written about bushings versus
> bearings, and some have come down heavily against bushings not least because early Specialized got
> sloppy pretty fast, but Turner maintains that bushings are superior.
>
> "Because a bearing found in a bike pivot never makes a full rotation, you rely on 2 maybe 3 of the
> balls in the cartridge to carry the entire load all of the time. Over time this is what creates
> that "crunchy" feel people often comment about. Bearings are also made of steel, steel rusts after
> being exposed to water, grit and grime again found in our everyday riding. So long lasting, tight
> tolerance and incredible load bearing capabilities are why we have chosen to stick with bushings
> even when others marketing campaigns say "bearings are king"." The full text is here
> http://www.turnerbikes.com/faq.html
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Is Turner right? Anyone that has had problems with their
> Turner bushings?
>
> Per http://lowdin.nu
>

What he says is true but I think his reasoning has more to do with saving his own money then ours.
If the bearings are easy to remove like on a Giant NRS, then they can be rotated every month to
prevent what he describles. Personally I much prefer my FSR bearings dieing suddenly once a year to
my old FSR bushings performing good for the first week and getting progressivly worse each day
after that.

--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
C

Chris Phillipo

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Michael Paul wrote: <snip>
> > My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure ****. When they wore out, I (forutnately I had
> > access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-like material
> > called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in some
> > applications that we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn
> > would actually show wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were
> > far superior to what came stock.
>
> Thought of going into business - custom aftermarket bushings? "For when you want the best for your
> bike..."
>

Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
C

Chris Phillipo

Guest
> Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
>

Make that bear=beat.
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
 
P

P E T E F A G E

Guest
"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Personally I much prefer my FSR bearings dieing suddenly
> once a year to my old FSR bushings performing good for the first week and getting progressivly
> worse each day after that.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
 
G

G.T.

Guest
"Michael Paul" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:%rg%[email protected]...
>

> My old Proflex had Nylon Bushings that were pure ****. When they wore
out,
> I (forutnately I had access to this at work) had my machinist make me some new ones out of a Teflon-
> like material called Turcite which makes an excellent bushing. It's a very tough plastic and in
> some applications
that
> we used it in my work, a stainless steel shaft that the bushing rotated aroudn would actually show
> wear before the bushing. Needless to say, the new bushings I had made were far superior to what
> came stock.
>

Bushings are one of the reasons the 5 Spot wasn't originally at the top of my list. I guess because
of my poor experience with creaking on my DBR and GT before it. I really like quiet bikes and those
two bikes developed some nasty creaks after riding in wet weather.

I'm hoping that with the better quality bushings and zerk fittings on the 5 Spot that that won't be
a problem.

Greg
 
M

Michael Paul

Guest
"G.T." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Yep%[email protected]...
>
I guess because of my poor experience with creaking on my DBR and
> GT before it. I really like quiet bikes and those two bikes developed
some
> nasty creaks after riding in wet weather.
>
> I'm hoping that with the better quality bushings and zerk fittings on the
5
> Spot that that won't be a problem.
>
> Greg
>
>

Well, my Yeti has no bushings or bearings yet it seems to have it's own unique set of creaks!

zerk fittings should help a lot. A guy down this way has been riding his 5-spot for about 6 months
now and I haven't heard about any issues he's had yet.

Michael
 
M

Mark Hickey

Guest
Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
>
>Make that bear=beat.

For a minute there, I thought you must have hit the lottery...

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
 
C

Chris Phillipo

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Wouldn't be hard to bear the price of MRP bearing kits, what are they, $300 down from $450 now?
> >
> >Make that bear=beat.
>
> For a minute there, I thought you must have hit the lottery...
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame
>
>

I'm waiting for the new thread to start by Mikey J Clownpharmasist "Mountainbikers advocate beating
of bears!"
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com