It lives! 81 speeds...

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Rorschandt, Mar 24, 2003.

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  1. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287

    I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to make
    the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into proper
    position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the pictures
    show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers, so it can
    easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also mounted with QRs so they can be removed
    easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the adjustment of the brakes.

    My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.

    rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
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  2. Bentnut

    Bentnut Guest

    That frame is sweet!

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >
    > I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to make
    > the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into proper
    > position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the pictures
    > show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers, so it can
    > easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also
    mounted
    > with QRs so they can be removed easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the
    > adjustment of the brakes.
    >
    > My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    > haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.
    >
    > rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
  3. A&B

    A&B Guest

    Nice bike! You ought to patent the design. bill g

    rorschandt wrote:
    >
    > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >
    > I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to make
    > the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into proper
    > position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the pictures
    > show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers, so it can
    > easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also mounted with QRs so they can be
    > removed easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the adjustment of the brakes.
    >
    > My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    > haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.
    >
    > rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
  4. Phil Wolfe

    Phil Wolfe Guest

    Nice looking bike, What type of paint job is it going to get. If powdercoating try Rainbow Cycle
    Craft, They do some great work. Philip Wolfe

    bentnut wrote:

    > That frame is sweet!
    >
    > "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    > >
    > > I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to
    > > make the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into
    > > proper position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the
    > > pictures show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers,
    > > so it can easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also
    > mounted
    > > with QRs so they can be removed easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the
    > > adjustment of the brakes.
    > >
    > > My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    > > haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.
    > >
    > > rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
  5. Hillel

    Hillel Guest

    Wow! Looks great. I really like the mid-drive. :) Is this frame stronger than a large monotube? I
    wonder how you would attach a cargo rack on the suspended part of the frame. It looks like you could
    carry quite a bit of cargo inside the frame.

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >
    > I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to make
    > the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into proper
    > position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the pictures
    > show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers, so it can
    > easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also
    mounted
    > with QRs so they can be removed easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the
    > adjustment of the brakes.
    >
    > My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    > haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.
    >
    > rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
  6. "Hillel" skrev...
    > Wow! Looks great. I really like the mid-drive. :) Is this frame stronger than a large monotube? I
    > wonder how you would attach a cargo rack on the suspended part of the frame. It looks like you
    > could carry quite a bit of cargo inside the frame.

    http://www.hpv-klub.dk/arrangementer/03-01-26_badstuen/

    7th pic is the front of a Leitra where you can see the frontsuspension. Maybe a project for the next
    trike? Carbonfiber acting as leafsprings(?) suspend the hubs. And the rear too actually but I
    couldn't find a pic.

    Also some other homebuilt stuff including two Zox-clones.

    Toodles Mikael
     
  7. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Mikael Seierup" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > http://www.hpv-klub.dk/arrangementer/03-01-26_badstuen/
    >

    Thanks for the link. I actually intended this trike to be fully suspended (again), but determined
    that suspension on the front of a tadpole makes the handling very spongy. A quad has additional
    stabilty because of that extra wheel at the back. A fully suspended tadpole trike will merely lean
    in the corner whether you want it to or not since the rear wheel is only a pivot point adding no
    resistance to leaning. Until I have a mechanism that will prevent the leaning I will not likely make
    any road trikes with front suspension unless it can be selectively locked out. Conventional style
    anti-swaybars help the leaning, but deaden the suppleness of the suspension. The least "leany"
    suspension will have the pivots as close to the wheels as possible, or, in other words, as far from
    the centerline as possible. Sliding king-pins are the most likely scenario.

    As for carbon, I have made things of fibreglass and find the whole thing too messy and all that
    sanding and such is not my cup of tea. I have not "vacuum bagged" with pre-preg which appears to
    require little or no sanding, so an experiment may be in order. It is my understanding that carbon
    fibre can be especially harmful if accidentally inhaled. Cleanliness in my workspace has not been my
    strongpoint!

    The next machine will probably be a lower machine to be more appealing to more people. The center of
    gravity is quite high on the Chaco, most would find it more appealing to be seated less than 12"
    above the ground. The current seat height is about 16" very high for a tadpole.
     
  8. That is one awesome bike! VERY cool!

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >
    > I'm busy figuring out some chain clearance issues, pretty minor really. A bigger issue is to make
    > the disc brake caliper mounts align properly. I could (and still may) just shim them into proper
    > position, but that seems so...shoddy. There will eventually be TWO hydraulic brakes, the pictures
    > show only one front wheel with a brake. The Swanson seat is attached with QR skewers, so it can
    > easily be removed in just seconds. The front wheels are also
    mounted
    > with QRs so they can be removed easily without tools and without (hopefully) disturbing the
    > adjustment of the brakes.
    >
    > My thoughts are to make a lower version as well, and _POSSIBLY_ sell a few frames, although I
    > haven't a clue when or how much. Enjoy the pics.
    >
    > rorschandt dreamland51 *at* comcast.net
     
  9. Hillel

    Hillel Guest

    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Thanks for the link. I actually intended this trike to be fully suspended (again), but determined
    > that suspension on the front of a tadpole makes
    the
    > handling very spongy. A quad has additional stabilty because of that extra wheel at the back. A
    > fully suspended tadpole trike will merely lean in the corner whether you want it to or not since
    > the rear wheel is only a pivot point adding no resistance to leaning. Until I have a mechanism
    > that will prevent the leaning I will not likely make any road trikes with front suspension unless
    > it can be selectively locked out. Conventional style anti-swaybars help the leaning, but deaden
    > the suppleness of the suspension.

    Take a look at the front view of Rickey Horwitz's design for the Diablo trike:
    http://www.hellbentcycles.com/Diablo.htm

    If you use Cane Creek shocks with lockout control, you could even have the steering automatically
    lock out the front suspension (or one wheel at a time if you want) when you turn the bars.

    > The next machine will probably be a lower machine to be more appealing to more people. The center
    > of gravity is quite high on the Chaco, most would find it more appealing to be seated less than
    > 12" above the ground. The current seat height is about 16" very high for a tadpole.

    Do you find this trike a bit unstable due to the height? IMHO the 16" seat height seems a bit better
    for commuting in traffic if the trike is stable enough. One fear I have with the tadpoles that I
    have tried is that they are too low to ride in the snow here in winter - just when I would need it.

    Out of curiosity, how much does the Chaco frame weigh? (Compared to other popular trike frames?)
     
  10. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Hillel" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >> Thanks for the link. I actually intended this trike to be fully suspended (again), but determined
    >> that suspension on the front of a tadpole makes
    > the
    >> handling very spongy.
    >SNIP< anti-swaybars help the leaning, but deaden
    >> the suppleness of the suspension.
    >
    > Take a look at the front view of Rickey Horwitz's design for the Diablo trike:
    > http://www.hellbentcycles.com/Diablo.htm

    Did you see my other trike? http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/174801833 Although I have deep respect
    for Mr. Horowitz (thanks for all your help Ricky via web pages)I believe his suspension will suffer
    from the same problem, just not as bad as mine.(his is also a lot prettier) He has very effectively
    moved the inner pivots of the suspension arms as far outward as possible while still giving an
    appropriate amount of suspension travel. Had connected linkage to the shocks, he could have moved
    the shocks inboard of the pivots allowing them to be even closer to the wheels. However, when the
    rider's weight gets transferred towards one wheel in a turn, the supension will lower that side of
    the vehicle. The anti-dive mechanism he refers to is probably during braking. Careful attention to
    the relationship angles between upper and lower suspension arms changes the caster angle as both
    front suspensions are compressed, suppressing dive somewhat when _both_ wheels are in action. I
    utilized that in the Tulpa Trike, and it does help. Probably every modern automobile on the planet
    uses that principle.

    >
    > If you use Cane Creek shocks with lockout control, you could even have the steering automatically
    > lock out the front suspension (or one wheel at a time if you want) when you turn the bars.
    >

    This idea I like better than manual lockout.

    >> The next machine will probably be a lower machine to be more appealing to more people. The center
    >> of gravity is quite high on the Chaco, most would find it more appealing to be seated less than
    >> 12" above the ground. The current seat height is about 16" very high for a tadpole.
    >
    > Do you find this trike a bit unstable due to the height? IMHO the 16" seat height seems a bit
    > better for commuting in traffic if the trike is stable enough. One fear I have with the tadpoles
    > that I have tried is that they are too low to ride in the snow here in winter - just when I would
    > need it.
    >

    Haven't actually ridden it yet, as the drive train isn't done. My first trike
    (http://pictures.care2.com/view/2/863401558) had a seat height similar. I did not think it was
    unstable, but my brothers both did.But they aren't cyclists, nor as adventurous as I. One crashed it
    20 seconds after mounting up! (~: I have improved steering geometry since that first trike, so this
    one "should" actually be more stable. I really liked the higher seat.

    > Out of curiosity, how much does the Chaco frame weigh? (Compared to other popular trike frames?)
    >

    Before I mounted parts on it, I weighed it on a food scale that only went to 5 lbs. It barely
    "pegged" the scale. 5 lbs + ? 6 ? Encouragingly, I used the wrong tubing wall thickness on this
    trike because I made a mistake when ordering. I estimate that mistake added 2 lbs. I am nearly
    finished adding stuff to it, and have access to a bigger scale this evening. I will try to weigh the
    complete trike.

    later, rorschandt
     
  11. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >

    Very interesting- it looks kind of like a trike built by Alex Moulton.

    I'd be worried about flex at the crank bracket- back when I was building Aerocoupes
    http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html , the boom was built from 1/2" diameter tubes-
    and they twisted and flexed under pedaling pressure. I'm worried that your 3/8" diameter tubes will
    bend, even with all of the triangulation you've put in.

    Also- how did you get 81 speeds? Is there a hidden "drive" cog on the mid-drive (that connects the
    mid-drive with the rear cassette)?

    Jeff
     
  12. Dj Blag

    Dj Blag Guest

    Beautiful job! Especially with what looks like fairly fine tubing. What did you use? Chas
     
  13. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in news:[email protected]:

    > rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    >> http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    >>
    >
    > Very interesting- it looks kind of like a trike built by Alex Moulton.
    >
    Thanks! That was what I was shooting for.

    > I'd be worried about flex at the crank bracket- back when I was building Aerocoupes
    > http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html , the boom was built from 1/2" diameter tubes-
    > and they twisted and flexed under pedaling pressure.

    Were there 4 tubes at the crank shell? It is difficult for me to see from that picture. Cool
    looking trike.

    > I'm worried that your 3/8" diameter tubes will bend, even with all of the triangulation
    > you've put in.

    I hope not. Time will tell!

    >
    > Also- how did you get 81 speeds? Is there a hidden "drive" cog on the mid-drive (that connects the
    > mid-drive with the rear cassette)?
    >

    Yes. If you look at the web page pics, the second close up of the mid-drive shows a 22tooth
    chainwheel on the back of the casette body. I machined some stuff to convert an ordinary casette
    body to ride on sealed bearings and attach a small chainring.

    rorschandt
     
  14. Rorschandt.......on your newest trike, I just think the Black Fairing is at the wrong angle hehehehe

    I like the space frame idea and the seat is NOT too high re: better pilot visability for city
    driving...being at eye level with hubcaps is not all that great OTOH being below the Hem line of
    summer dresses can be fun too. Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have
    a Hamster running inside on a treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a Power-Assisted trike).
    Joshua (who else)
    ------------------
    "rorschandt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Jeff Wills) wrote in news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> My Chaco trike is nearly complete, and here are some new pictures
    > >> http://pictures.care2.com/view/1/844656287
    > >>
    > >
    > > Very interesting- it looks kind of like a trike built by Alex Moulton.
    > >
    > Thanks! That was what I was shooting for.
    >
    > > I'd be worried about flex at the crank bracket- back when I was building Aerocoupes
    > > http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html , the boom was built from 1/2" diameter
    > > tubes- and they twisted and flexed under pedaling pressure.
    >
    > Were there 4 tubes at the crank shell? It is difficult for me to see from that picture. Cool
    > looking trike.
    >
    > > I'm worried that your 3/8" diameter tubes will bend, even with all of the triangulation you've
    > > put in.
    >
    > I hope not. Time will tell!
    >
    > >
    > > Also- how did you get 81 speeds? Is there a hidden "drive" cog on the mid-drive (that connects
    > > the mid-drive with the rear cassette)?
    > >
    >
    > Yes. If you look at the web page pics, the second close up of the
    mid-drive
    > shows a 22tooth chainwheel on the back of the casette body. I machined
    some
    > stuff to convert an ordinary casette body to ride on sealed bearings and attach a small chainring.
    >
    > rorschandt
     
  15. Rorschandt

    Rorschandt Guest

    "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Rorschandt.......on your newest trike, I just think the Black Fairing is at the wrong angle
    > hehehehe
    >
    > I like the space frame idea and the seat is NOT too high re: better pilot visability for city
    > driving...being at eye level with hubcaps is not all that great OTOH being below the Hem line of
    > summer dresses can be fun too.

    I prefer above. Yummy!

    > Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have a Hamster running inside on a
    > treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a Power-Assisted trike). Joshua (who else)
    > ------------------

    My SO said I should put neon shapes in there! No, not in the Hamster, inside the spaceframe area, s
    illy. One of those high-voltage jacobs ladder things like in an old sci-fi movie would be cool.
    Bunches of randomly flashing L.E.D. s would be ...damn! I knew I should have bought those battery
    powered L.E.D. x-mas lights on clearance. <sigh>

    rorschandt does Hamster require a capital H ?
     
  16. "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have a Hamster running inside on a
    > treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a

    Then you can have cooked hamster after a days ride in the sun - yummy! Great for slow cooking - like
    the "Beef under the sattle" cowboytrick.

    Regards, Torben (getting hungry)
     
  17. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    rorschandt <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > I'd be worried about flex at the crank bracket- back when I was building Aerocoupes
    > > http://home.pacifier.com/~jwills/Gallery/index.html , the boom was built from 1/2" diameter
    > > tubes- and they twisted and flexed under pedaling pressure.
    >
    > Were there 4 tubes at the crank shell? It is difficult for me to see from that picture. Cool
    > looking trike.
    >

    Three 1/2" tubes- not particularly well triangulated. Your design has better triangulation- but a
    boom-mounted crank bracket has a lot of different forces acting on it. It's twisted and bent with
    every crank rotation- that's why big monotube frames predominate in the 'bent world.

    Jeff
     
  18. > Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have a Hamster running inside on a
    > treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a Power-Assisted trike). Joshua (who else)

    Ouch it hurts your making me laugh so hard!!! :) Or maybe he could use to eye hooks and a big
    rubber band that twists and untwists so it looks like that's the source of 'extra' power! LOL
    Nobody in the house can figure out what I am laughing so hard about! Had to talk, face turning red,
    gasp! -Skon
     
  19. Hillel

    Hillel Guest

    "[]--SkonOfVulcan--[]" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have a Hamster running inside on
    > > a treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a Power-Assisted trike). Joshua (who else)
    >
    > Ouch it hurts your making me laugh so hard!!! :) Or maybe he could use
    to
    > eye hooks and a big rubber band that twists and untwists so it looks like that's the source of
    > 'extra' power! LOL Nobody in the house can figure out what I am laughing so hard about! Had to
    > talk, face turning red,
    gasp! -Skon
    >

    Don't forget the little propeller on the end of the rubber band. People with think your trike can
    also ride on water. :)
     
  20. Hillel

    Hillel Guest

    "Torben Scheel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Joshua Goldberg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Confuse people...enclose the space frame with clear plastic and have a Hamster running inside on
    > > a treadwheel as your drive (claim you have a
    >
    > Then you can have cooked hamster after a days ride in the sun - yummy!
    Great
    > for slow cooking - like the "Beef under the sattle" cowboytrick.
    >

    Use the plastic-enclosed space to pop popcorn.
     
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