Its come to this....God Bless America

[Colorado Ryder]

I propose we substitute "One Nation Under Educated With the Liberty to Screw Up and Blame Someone Else".

Might as well. That is the way most people act.

 

[jhuskey]

Might as well. That is the way most people act.

I don't believe it's an act.

 

[Wurm]

In the first place, none of you so-called "Christians" should be doing the Pledge of A to a flag at all - it's worshipping an idol, is it not? What a bunch of focking HYPOCRITES.

Pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-greed = HYPOCRITES.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

In the first place, none of you so-called "Christians" should be doing the Pledge of A to a flag at all - it's worshipping an idol, is it not? What a bunch of focking HYPOCRITES.

Pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-greed = HYPOCRITES.

Somebody close the window. I feel a hot air draft.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

I don't believe it's an act.

I stand corrected. Now we know the results of 30 years of the great "liberal" social experiment.

 

[Wurm]

This message is hidden because Colorado Ryder is on your ignore list.

Best feature on this forum.

 

[Colorado Ryder]

Best feature on this forum.

If you didn't read my posts you wouldn't have responded.
www.abovetopsecret.com is Wurmy's best feature on the internet.

 

[limerickman]

Depends on how people define God, I would have thought.

Agnostics believe that there is God, but they don't subscribe to any religious congregation.

The God referred to in "God Bless America", isn't defined as Christian God or Islamic God.
It's just God.

For the atheist, I can see how the statement "God Bless America" could pose a problem though.
Still Church and State, they ought to be separate.

 

[jhuskey]

Depends on how people define God, I would have thought.

Agnostics believe that there is God, but they don't subscribe to any religious congregation.

The God referred to in "God Bless America", isn't defined as Christian God or Islamic God.
It's just God.

For the atheist, I can see how the statement "God Bless America" could pose a problem though.
Still Church and State, they ought to be separate.

I do not have problem with that Lim, however every society is defined and founded or staged on some premise.
It is fundamentally accepted that the US was founded on Christianity and it is hard for some to accept change in that concept.
I do have a question for the non believers in some religion, athiest if you will.

Do you have a problem with the concept of the premise and or the content of the Ten Commandments or the Koran etc.and the message thereof?
Or do you just object to the "marketing" and or "packaging" of it.
If so, which concept or moral variance do you object to?

 

[davidmc]

I guess IN GOD WE TRUST is next....

C'mon people this is crazy. What happened to being proud of being american?

Have you been paying attention "In god we trust" was added in the 1950's, when the "red scare" was a threat. It was a political move. It was put there, not out of pride but, out of fear. It does'nt belong there.

 

[davidmc]

As is the ACLU ,a relic of the 1920's and well over due for the trash heep.

Civil liberties NEVER go out of style my friend. Besides, I just gave them ANOTHER $100

 

[davidmc]

In the first place, none of you so-called "Christians" should be doing the Pledge of A to a flag at all - it's worshipping an idol, is it not? What a bunch of focking HYPOCRITES.

Pro-death penalty, pro-war, pro-greed = HYPOCRITES.

You "hit the nail square on the head" Wurm

 

[limerickman]

I do not have problem with that Lim, however every society is defined and founded or staged on some premise.
It is fundamentally accepted that the US was founded on Christianity and it is hard for some to accept change in that concept.
I do have a question for the non believers in some religion, athiest if you will.

Do you have a problem with the concept of the premise and or the content of the Ten Commandments or the Koran etc.and the message thereof?
Or do you just object to the "marketing" and or "packaging" of it.
If so, which concept or moral variance do you object to?

And I think this is the problem.

I think your country's founding fathers were very astute.
They didn't insert "Christian God" or "Islamic God" : they inserted the word
"God".
Of course, the majority faith in the USA is Christian and naturally most people
would assume that when the statement "God Bless America" is invoked, it's with the Christian God in mind.
Those who oppose the phrase "God Bless America" more often than not, I think, oppose the Chriatian concept of what is defined as God.


Personally I haven't got a problem with the use of that phrase.

 

[davidmc]

Depends on how people define God, I would have thought.

Agnostics believe that there is God, but they don't subscribe to any religious congregation.

The God referred to in "God Bless America", isn't defined as Christian God or Islamic God.
It's just God.

For the atheist, I can see how the statement "God Bless America" could pose a problem though.
Still Church and State, they ought to be separate.

You have stated this before & I am still in full agreement w/ you Lim

 

[davidmc]

I do have a question for the non believers in some religion, athiest if you will.
Do you have a problem with the concept of the premise and or the content of the Ten Commandments or the Koran etc.and the message thereof?
Or do you just object to the "marketing" and or "packaging" of it.
If so, which concept or moral variance do you object to?

I object to the whole lot of it. It presumes that humans cannot reason. I do not have to be told that killing someone or sleeping w/ one's wife is not a wise idea. It insult's my intelligence. If you believe it, thats fine but having the Gov't force feed it down one's throat is another matter.

 

[davidmc]

And I think this is the problem.

I think your country's founding fathers were very astute.
They didn't insert "Christian God" or "Islamic God" : they inserted the word
"God".
Of course, the majority faith in the USA is Christian and naturally most people
would assume that when the statement "God Bless America" is invoked, it's with the Christian God in mind.
Those who oppose the phrase "God Bless America" more often than not, I think, oppose the Chriatian concept of what is defined as God.


Personally I haven't got a problem with the use of that phrase.

That is correct. Many of them (the "Framer's") were Deist's. What is the basis of Deism? Reason and nature. We see the design found throughout the known universe and this realization brings us to a sound belief in a Designer or God.

Is Deism a form of atheism? No. Atheism teaches that there is no God. Deism teaches there is a God. Deism rejects the "revelations" of the "revealed" religions but does not reject God.

If Deism teaches a belief in God, then what is the difference between Deism and the other religions like Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.? Deism is, as stated above, based on nature and reason, not "revelation." All the other religions make claim to special divine revelation or they have requisite "holy" books. Deism has neither. In Deism there is no need for a preacher, priest or rabbi. All one needs in Deism is their own common sense and the creation to contemplate.

 

[jhuskey]

And I think this is the problem.

I think your country's founding fathers were very astute.
They didn't insert "Christian God" or "Islamic God" : they inserted the word
"God".
Of course, the majority faith in the USA is Christian and naturally most people
would assume that when the statement "God Bless America" is invoked, it's with the Christian God in mind.
Those who oppose the phrase "God Bless America" more often than not, I think, oppose the Chriatian concept of what is defined as God.


Personally I haven't got a problem with the use of that phrase.

That's the situation here, as well you know, from your experiences where you are, Lim. Th US may be experiencing similarities as you have before and of course still are. Belief differences.
To answer another poster "We are endowed by our creator" the words of our founder fathers".
It doesn't say who specifically who our creator is, but our founding fathers ,who had apparently had a hell of a lot more brains than us, knew that they were not self creating.
Also Title VII gave equal rights, how many corrupt money making organizations do we need to insure civil rights ?
It seems to some it is "right and correct" if it suit your purpose and beliefs.
The truth is what we are after, let's not turn a blind eye.
Lim , this is not directed toward you ,I am just venting to the masses and the guilty.

 

[limerickman]

When The Republic of Ireland was formed in 1948 (Southern Ireland was independent in 1922 but it only seceded for the British Commonwealth in 1938),
the Constitution was drafted and had the word Roman Catholic inserted in to it.
(90% of the Irish Republic was Roman Catholic, back then).

 

[jhuskey]

I object to the whole lot of it. It presumes that humans cannot reason. I do not have to be told that killing someone or sleeping w/ one's wife is not a wise idea. It insult's my intelligence. If you believe it, thats fine but having the Gov't force feed it down one's throat is another matter.

You believe that humans cannot reason. Then take what you get and don't complain.
I still have some hope that humans have some glimer of compassion and hope.
The fact that murders and rapes and crime goes on is an indication that we need something beyond our patheric ability to reason and cope.
If you think we are self assured in our existance...... well ok that's you call.

 

[EoinC]

...Do you have a problem with the concept of the premise and or the content of the Ten Commandments or the Koran etc.and the message thereof?
Or do you just object to the "marketing" and or "packaging" of it.
If so, which concept or moral variance do you object to?

G'day, JH. It is not necessary to believe in a God in order to agree with a concept such as the social value in not killing or not stealing (or not doing naughty things to the neighbour's oxen). The atheist is disagreeing with the source, not necessarily the content.
This debate is remote to me (not my Country), but appears to be about alienating 1 group of society. If the the term used in the Pledge had been "under Allah", no doubt some of the posters who are currently promoting the continued inclusion of "under God" would be riled at that as it would be being required them to pledge to something in which they do not believe. I'm guessing that some Atheists feel similarly alienated in having their pledge of allegiance to the USA (which they do not appear to be objecting to) being bound to also believing in a God.
For some people this may be a big issue, for others, not. I was surprised that this was introduced in the 1950's - I had assumed that it was a Founding Fathers deal. Again, from the outside, it is interesting that those who believe that it should not be a big issue for an American Atheist also seem to believe that it would be a big issue for it not to be there.