It's cool to be clean: UCI come down hard on dope cheats... sign or we'll name ya !

[NJK]

I fully agree with you doc. He would not sign anything that would be unfair to cyclists as a group. He in fact made himself a target when he represented athe cyclists protest against additional (non UCI controls) just prior to the 1999 giro. And he coincidentally suffered a suspension for health safety reasons and served several other suspensions for suspected sporting fraud that had no basis to ever have been presented, and were later thrown out. The suspensions had already run their courses by that time, of course.

I was & still a massive Pantani fan but he was just out to protect himself and his own interests. Cycling won't ever recover until it becomes an amateur sport. The UCI have a massive job where they can't do anything right. Until you get the old riders out of the pro ranks nothing will change, they realise all of there results are based on doping.

 

[classic1]

I was & still a massive Pantani fan but he was just out to protect himself and his own interests. Cycling won't ever recover until it becomes an amateur sport. The UCI have a massive job where they can't do anything right. Until you get the old riders out of the pro ranks nothing will change, they realise all of there results are based on doping.

What, you don't think doping occurs in amateur spot?

 

[NJK]

What, you don't think doping occurs in amateur spot?

I definately wouldn't happen as much. Money=Cheating in any sport.

 

[wolfix]

In the non-professional racing scene in the US doping is occurring. I can't say much about the younger guys, but I know it is happening in the older guy races. And these races are for very little money, mostly just for gas money.
Doping is here to stay in the sporting world. Since sports are put so high on the priority of people in their decisions to buy "endorsed products" , we will always see a battle of pharmo's..
The sporting bodies realize this...... NFL,NBL,NBA, and of course, the UCI. And they also know the fans want to see hero's...... and they really do not care if the hero's are doped. Sport is better when we have our head in the sand.

This years TDF will be a great test. We have no hero's. No good vs evil. Watch the fan partication numbers fall through the floor from the previous years. Look at the forum....... we are just days away from the start of the TDF and no one is really posting about it.

And then there is the question .."Is doping all that bad?" I love it when fans say doping is bad because they want to feel as if they have something in common with the riders. Right...They will have something in common with the riders when they can quit their day jobs and ride 6 hours a day, on a bike custom fitted for them. Then have a massage when they are through. And have been born with a VOmax of a beast.
All I know is the sport seemed better when no one was all that concerned with doping. I enjoyed it even though I knew thy were doping. Anything is better then what we have now.

 

[ilpirata]

I was & still a massive Pantani fan but he was just out to protect himself and his own interests. Cycling won't ever recover until it becomes an amateur sport. The UCI have a massive job where they can't do anything right. Until you get the old riders out of the pro ranks nothing will change, they realise all of there results are based on doping.

I am afraid I must respectfully disagree NJK at least in part.

The olympics are supposedly amateur competitions, yet they are riddled with performance enhancing drugs. It becomes a matter of using the best technology without getting caught. This is what has become of sports in general. The biggest teams and stars have the best technology behind them. Which means that there is never true parity, even in a sport where they all dope. It is what it is. It in theory competition could become more fair with better testing. Pantani was one who was not against better tests, and was quoted as saying "if they really develop analysis for artificially boosted blood and hormones, I will be the first to reap the advantage". What he was against was increased testing without representation from cyclist union. And also that other sports get a free ride as if cycling was the only sport where doping could be found. So he got in trouble at the 99 giro as I mentioned, but then again at the 2001 giro, where Cipollini called him into play to represent the cyclists in protest of the hotel invasion. The cyclist were intending to stop the giro in protest. After Pantani had expressed the supposed sentiments of the group, he was left out to dry as the sponsors laid out an ultimatum, and the rest of the cyclists caved, including the cowardly Cipollini who had begged Pantani to carry the cause.

Then several days later, a syringe is found in a room that was empty, but maybe Pantani had been there the previous day because it was a Mercatone room. Pantani is charged with sporting fraud once again. Bears his last suspension. Of course no dna test was ever done, at the hearing the charges are dismissed for lack of evidence, etc..

Obviously his statements and efforts are self serving, he was fighting for the rights of himself and all cyclists. Perhaps if he had stood up for the rights of journalists he could have avoided the label of being self serving.

 

[NJK]

I am afraid I must respectfully disagree NJK at least in part.

The olympics are supposedly amateur competitions, yet they are riddled with performance enhancing drugs. It becomes a matter of using the best technology without getting caught. This is what has become of sports in general. The biggest teams and stars have the best technology behind them. Which means that there is never true parity, even in a sport where they all dope. It is what it is. It in theory competition could become more fair with better testing. Pantani was one who was not against better tests, and was quoted as saying "if they really develop analysis for artificially boosted blood and hormones, I will be the first to reap the advantage". What he was against was increased testing without representation from cyclist union. And also that other sports get a free ride as if cycling was the only sport where doping could be found. So he got in trouble at the 99 giro as I mentioned, but then again at the 2001 giro, where Cipollini called him into play to represent the cyclists in protest of the hotel invasion. The cyclist were intending to stop the giro in protest. After Pantani had expressed the supposed sentiments of the group, he was left out to dry as the sponsors laid out an ultimatum, and the rest of the cyclists caved, including the cowardly Cipollini who had begged Pantani to carry the cause.

Then several days later, a syringe is found in a room that was empty, but maybe Pantani had been there the previous day because it was a Mercatone room. Pantani is charged with sporting fraud once again. Bears his last suspension. Of course no dna test was ever done, at the hearing the charges are dismissed for lack of evidence, etc..

Obviously his statements and efforts are self serving, he was fighting for the rights of himself and all cyclists. Perhaps if he had stood up for the rights of journalists he could have avoided the label of being self serving.

All of what you say is true. He was targeted unfairly on many occasions. However like all Italian cyclists he lied through his teeth to press and fans because everyone was taking it. It was as if taking EPO injections were simply nothing more than consuming energy drinks.

 

[Dead Star]

It was as if taking EPO injections were simply nothing more than consuming energy drinks.

Or Orange juice.

 

[ilpirata]

I am of the opinion Pantani had something he could have confessed as well. He perhaps knew the environment for what it was, and that he would be certainly left out to dry. And labeled a cheater as well. But that is effectively the result anyway. Also I am sure he believed that he was being set up from the very beginning, because his hematocrit, he was certain, was not really high that day in 1999. But in interviews well before any of his suspensions, on the topic of doping in cycling, he suggests that riders must use an internal conscience or "to do as the law of equality would suggest doing". What else could this mean? I imagine trying to maintain certain ethics in an unethical situation. And then in his last statements references like "it is all in the cogniscence of all". I take these to be references of the availability,omnipresense, and necessity of PEDs in the cycling world.

All of what you say is true. He was targeted unfairly on many occasions. However like all Italian cyclists he lied through his teeth to press and fans because everyone was taking it. It was as if taking EPO injections were simply nothing more than consuming energy drinks.

 

[cyclingheroes]

For those who can read German...

The vice president of the German Cycling Federation is being accused of organizing systematic doping during the time he was team manager of the Nürnberg team...:
http://sport.ard.de/sp/radsport/news200706/25/report_mainz_sprenger.jhtml

 

[whiteboytrash]

For those who can read German...

The vice president of the German Cycling Federation is being accused of organizing systematic doping during the time he was team manager of the Nürnberg team...:
http://sport.ard.de/sp/radsport/news200706/25/report_mainz_sprenger.jhtml

Thought as much..... I read that if they try and take Ullrich to court for fraud he will call Goodfroot, the guy you mention and several others who promoted doping within the German cycling federation..... it also indicated that Ullrich would also call Verbraggen to answer questions on accepting doping... it cant be fraud if the T-Mobile accepted doping, the German cycling federation accepted and promoted doping along with the UCI....... I suggest the UCI lean on the German prosecutors to tell them to back off on Ullrich and Jascke...

 

[cyclingheroes]

Thought as much..... I read that if they try and take Ullrich to court for fraud he will call Goodfroot, the guy you mention and several others who promoted doping within the German cycling federation..... it also indicated that Ullrich would also call Verbraggen to answer questions on accepting doping... it cant be fraud if the T-Mobile accepted doping, the German cycling federation accepted and promoted doping along with the UCI....... I suggest the UCI lean on the German prosecutors to tell them to back off on Ullrich and Jascke...

Too late....

 

[whiteboytrash]

Too late....

Agreed. Its going to be a messy trial.

 

[alibat]

I seem to remember there was some talk of the fraud case being dropped after the telekom confessions. No news on that front I take it?

 

[cyclingheroes]

Statement from the riders of the Rabobank ProTeam

http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id712.htmlRead the statement and guess what the actual message between the lines is....

 

[whiteboytrash]

Statement from the riders of the Rabobank ProTeam

http://www.cyclingheroes.info/id712.htmlRead the statement and guess what the actual message between the lines is....

?? What ? that they dope or the team protested on behalf of the riders ?

 

[cyclingheroes]

?? What ? that they dope or the team protested on behalf of the riders ?

No what the real issue is, and that's not about doping.

 

[whiteboytrash]

No what the real issue is, and that's not about doping.

That they hate the UCI's bullyboy tactics...? I don't understand this.... if you're not doping like the French teams then there’s not a problem in signing... PR or no PR...... like me... if my employer asked me to sign a charter that I wouldn't smoke, would I have a problem with it ? No I wouldn't because I don't smoke so no issue... if they asked me to sign one that I wouldn't drink then I'd have a problem and wouldn't want to sign..... you get my drift.... riders and teams don't want to sign because they dope. period. They know if they can't dope at the Tour then the teams performance is going to be ****..... they're running scared.

 

[JRMDC]

if my employer asked me to sign a charter that I wouldn't smoke, would I have a problem with it ? No I wouldn't because I don't smoke so no issue...

I would be very concerned if I though I might breathe in some second-hand smoke the day of an unnannounced test, or if I felt there was no one to back me up in case the lab mucked up the test. I wouldn't put my career, and also a year's worth of back pay, in the hands of WADA.

Nope, not an Armstrong or Landis defender. Just want due process to back me up, otherwise it's Guantanamo.