It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    Yea I remember last year I had that slowish warmup time, but it was around 30-40 mins. I think yesterday's warmup was just off for whatever reason, cause today I was cruising after 1/2hr.

    Today I overtrained a little, due to tagging up to a pair of triatheletes, completely forgeting about my planned route, and realizing it after 12 extra miles.

    That's funny you mentioned making your own drink. Since I haven't bought any energy/recovery powders yet, I threw in 4 tspn's of sugar to my water today. It tested good ,and felt like maybe it did something, but probably just in my head. After my ride I got some Cytomax mix though.
     


  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Salt and baking soda does not equal a nice balanced electrolyte drink. Sucrose isn't the best choice for carbohydrates either.

    Corn starch is a principle ingredient of sports drinks such as PSP. It goes through a whole bunch of processing so it can become easily soluble in water. However, you can use corn starch (which is a long chain carbohydrate) at 1g per kg of bodyweight per hour to give you upto 400 Calories of carbohydrates per hour. (YMMV on that but that's what I could get away with without any 'distress' when going very hard) It's cheap, very cheap, but the downside is it's lack of solubility - if you can get past the gritty texture then it's a winner is mixed with a sugar free cordial drink. I can't say how well it works in excessive heat as I only ever used this in England as a poor impoverished student.

    As I have more money than sense now I used Hammer Perpetuem as the main source of 'fuel' to keep me riding on rides from 2 to 16 hours. Acutally, it's amazing stuff and worth every penny.

    You can buy maltodextrin in bulk but you end up with a small mountain of the stuff for about $100... about 3 years supply for most folk.

    Pedialyte is great electrolyte drink for when you're sick or drank way way too much booze the night before... Near instant hangover cure and great when you're sick. The 'knock off brand' doesn't work as well as the real deal.
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I have a large half used container of Perpetuem that I would give you swampy if we were neighbors. Not worth shipping to you. :) That stuff is nasty tasting to me once it gets hot.

    I use Hammer Heed and I've got the huge bucket of maltodextrin that you mention that I don't think will ever go away. Seems like I have been using the same "life time" sized container for years. :) You can get it for cheap at many local health food stores.
     
  4. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I have had a similar experience many times, usually on my trainer. The typical process is that before a ride I just feel as though it's going to be a bad ride. Mentally, I'm sort of dreading the ride because I think I'm going to be weak. Then, I persuade myself that I'll just start the ride and quit when it becomes too uncomfortable. I always start such rides a bit easier than normal. Then, as the ride goes on I feel better and better and up the pace. Often, I end up putting in a full effort and feel just fine after. My only conclusion is that sometimes my mind has no clue what's going on with my body.:confused:
     
  5. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    Thank you Sir, that's exactly how I felt. That's comforting to know. Now I don't feel so crappy about it.

    Another thing I'm fighting with, is my will-power to take a day off, or at least to ride <=L3 recovery. Since the weather has been perfect everyday, and continues to be, I've been riding everyday, and doing some longer miles all with no less than L4. Today I promised myself to relax and stay off, my legs are tired from overriding yesterday (which was supposed to be L3 but wasn't), but for some reason I feel that I'll be out there again. And I know I'll be struggling to stay under L3, especially after 1/2 hour.

    I think this is where a PT would help out.
     
  6. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    snip:
    C'mon now RD, like you've ever actually quit a ride. :)

    You know, for me, part of it can be as simple as being OK with the ride being a little less intense, more modest let's say, than usual. If I let myself be alright with that, then pushing a little, * if or when* I feel better is encouraging. And if I don't feel better then I at least met my original expectations. I'm past the honeymoon phase so every week isn't always better than the last. All you can do type of thing.
     
  7. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    C'mon DM, it's not like you've hit your final best peak performance and there's nothing left. You're still years away from that. Every week IS always better, you just got used to not noticing it :D.

    That's what I tell myself anyways..... :)
     
  8. bigwillie013

    bigwillie013 New Member

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    Hey gman...one quick question:
    I recognized you're waiting for a Powertab to get you into Watts on the streets. But up to that point do you really only ride by RPE? No HRM? Nothing? Really only a cycle computer?

    Just curious as for now you look like jumping from the Stoneage to Modern Times in just 1 go. Don't know many who did that.

    Keep riding!

    BTW enjoy your rest days! Don't feel like this is lost time. You only get better while recovering (active or passive anyway).

    Cheers from a tech addicted german masters racer.
     
  9. gman0482

    gman0482 Member

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    Hey Willie,

    I got my KurtKinetic power computer on the bike, which gives me everything but the watts on the road. I go by MPH / RPM, and I'm too lazy to put my HR strap on but I'll start to measure that too. The watts don't measure correct on the road since the power meter is only for the trainer, but everything else is good.

    You'r right about those rest days. I skipped yesterday completely, and today was a great ride.

    Thanks,
    -Greg
     
  10. Sillyoldtwit

    Sillyoldtwit New Member

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    Two weeks ago with a jolt from "jstnice" and advice from RapDaddyo behind the scenes, I went right back wattage wise to build up my stamina (especially with regard to the ComPutrainer) before attempting to force up the wattage. I'm now doing a straight 1x45 minute interval at the planned wattage - not moving up until it becomes easy. I know Rap doesn't like me doing it, but I've planned the increases right up until the 8th of September, when if all goes to plan I should be doing a 300Watt interval for X minutes.
    Sometimes after the 45 minute interval, I up the wattage by 10 Watts, that is the next wattage, for 5 minutes just to get a feel for the next step.
    If the truth be told, I am finding it harder than the old days in the gym watching the rear end of the lovely ladies on the trainer row in front of me. (apologies for the sexist remark, but I'm only human ;))

    I know some in this forum don't train with music, but I just couldn't finish a workout without it.

    2 tracks in particular lift me up above the pain. Namely, Taiko Drums from Rising Sun Soundtrack - Tsunami excerpt and Dj Promo's My Underground Madness. I think without the relentless driving beat of these 2 tracks I might have stopped in the middle of my intervals last week.

    Also Mt. Charleston draws ever near, and this too helps drive me on. Shall be booking a flight soon.
    Finally what wattage am I now training at? All will be revealed at the end of this month. :D

    Tyson
     
  11. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Use whatever works. When I get to hard parts of a ride, I play a little game with myself involving my cadence. Here's the game. I count my strokes and I can only quit after an even 100 strokes. So, as I near the next 100 count, I have to decide whether to start a new cycle. Inevitably, I talk myself into starting a new count (after all, 100 strokes goes by in a little more than a minute, so it's not like I'm making a lifetime commitment to servitude). And, of course, once I start the new count, I can't quit until I get to 100 again. This goes on for awhile until I decide it's too much trouble and decide to just ride. But, it gets me over the hump.:D
     
  12. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Did you get the Cafe Latte flavor? That stuff is just plain nasty... even when cold. That stuff washing up on the Louisiana shore tastes better.

    Tip: Make it the night before and stuff it in the freezer if it's going to be the second bottle.

    Orange is where it's at. The original Perpetuem and still the best. If you have the orange, you'll have to come down to California and do that fast century ride. I'll take the perpetuem as payment for providing "rouleur services" and pacing you the first 50 mile leg into the headwind. 23 to 24 mph should set you up nicely for the return leg and getting it done under 5 hours. :p
     
  13. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Never a truer word said.

    You can't get better without rest. The secret is finding out how much rest you need for your state of fitness and balancing that out with the work. If more people planned their training based around how much rest they really needed during a 'training block' then they'd probably do better. Planning the 'go hard, go faster stuff' is way more interesting and it's easy to forget about the recovery... and then they wonder why they're always feeling stuffed.

    Noone ever said that you needed to stay off the bike though. You can use that time to take a nice 30 to 45 minute recovery ride (easy pace) and use that to practise a skill that you're having problems with - maybe riding on the drops for an extended period of time, maybe concentrating on cornering a little more than usual or even refining that handlebar or saddle position, which is something that you might need to do if you're losing weight or rediscovering the joys of stretching after not doing any for years.

    Of course you could actively spend some quality time with the family to offset those training sessions - take the kids out for a ride to the park, a great fun way to keep the pace slow and having fun at the same time.
     
  14. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    In order to book a flight you'll need to wait for the event organizers to post a date. :p

    69.2 watts.
     
  15. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    That looks like numbers from my PT setup on an all out sprint. :D
    (which is now on a truck up to Wisconsin)
     
  16. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    ... another reason why you need to start drinking that Perpetuem :p
     
  17. taricha

    taricha New Member

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    I have tried doing my 2x20 training sessions to Venture Brothers DVDs, however I soon discovered that in a stressed/oxygen deprived state the laugh lines are even funnier, and breathing is disrupted and concentration is lost. It's annoying to repeatedly get back to pace, and then do a mini-surge to average out the loss of concentration.
    So I went back to my workout-tailored Pandora station based on The Crystal Method, and Venture Brothers only for recovery rides.
     
  18. DancenMacabre

    DancenMacabre New Member

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    Sillyoldtwit - 1 x 40 is it? That's a fine workout. Good for the legs, good for the will/brain too. In a way, I am glad you are not revealing the wattage. Those of us that aren't as gifted as you are in the talent department, probably feel better about ourselves not hearing about you smashing records every week Meanwhile we slog away 2 watts at a time & stare way, way up at the mountain in the distance telling ourselves.........we'll get there........one day :)

    Must confide that I too have trouble doing a workout without music - indoors anyway. I'm pretty adapted to the trainer but appreciate all the motivation/distraction I can get. After 2 hours or so, it gets hella monotonous.

    RD - any idea when the climb is going to be planned? Would be nice to have some idea of a date.

    Gman - got a peak performance yesterday and the day before actually. Guess a little of that high TSB from being sick helped my form.Even more peculiar is I'm on 6 out of 7 rides outdoors. Suddenly you realize how many jersey's you have while having to use one every day. Hope your training is going well.
     
  19. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I agree. I don't know why organizers wait so late to post a date. In past years the earliest date has been the Saturday of Labor Day weekend, but last year they moved it back to Sept 19, the Saturday prior to the big Las Vegas bike show, Interbike. This year Interbike is Sept 22-24 and the bike demo days are Sept 20-21. So, I'm guessing Mount C will be Saturday, Sept 18. Personally, I greatly prefer the later date because it can still be pretty warm on Labor Day. As soon as I learn the date, I'll post it here.
     
  20. AshesGlory

    AshesGlory New Member

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    RD, I was looking for results of previous years and could only find 2007 and 2008. Is there a complete set of results collated anywhere online?
     
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