It's killing me but..........



dsb137

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Sep 13, 2006
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Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .


My current CTL is close to 80 now and would love to hang on to that through the winter, but I know my long Saturday ride is going to get much shorter sooner.
When you say your CTL is 80, does that take into account your lifting? Is there any way to do that?
 

Felt_Rider

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Oct 24, 2004
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Dahlonega? You live in Georgia's cycling prime spot. Lucky you!!

dsb, I know that there is an option in WKO to select weight lifting as an activity, but I am not sure how to manually enter that effort or make a judgment on the effort.

I have seen discussions by some of the go to guys here of not mixing different activities in the PMC because it skews the data somehow, but I don't understand all of that yet.

I do wonder about that because I do train legs on Monday and know it does impact my cycling training (in a negative way). This week in fact I had a lot of DOMS following Monday, which made it very difficult to hit those > 90% sessions on the bike. I did hit the mark on most intervals, but it was very discomforting. My legs remained sore this whole week and also impacted the ride yesterday. This is one reason I take the side of the cycling purist for those hoping to improve in most cycling racing to just stick with the bike. If I were to focus on racing I believe I would have to give up lifting to really improve.

This has also played a major role in me not having a higher CTL, but I love lifting too much (30 solid years invested) to give it up.
 

dsb137

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Sep 13, 2006
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Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

Dahlonega? You live in Georgia's cycling prime spot. Lucky you!!

Being very un Schleck like the mountains aren't my friend... Descending is a blast... Climbing, not so much....

I was just curious if the cycling fitness you experience at the ~80 CTL mark is because of the increased riding or if by getting in that much riding means a corresponding decrease in lifting...
 

jsirabella

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ds->Knowing felt as well as I do, there is no way he is giving up any lifting!

felt->I am interested to see if you continue to see improvement because of your weight lifting and life in general, it would seem to me that you are trying to cram more in when the moment allows. My feeling on training is that you have to be consistent, meaning 2 hours a ride 5 days a week or a bit more on weekends. Once you start to do less riding on weekdays cause of other things and than throw in a 3,4 hour ride on the weekend to get the CTL up, is it the right way to build CTL?

I have always been and still a little confused about L3 vs. SST vs. L4. Every thread I have has them set a slight different. Some SST start at 80% FTP, other 85% and than there are 90%. Than there is the L3 is really the meat of building aerobic fitness but you need to do the 3 hour or great variety which makes SST work better for the weekend warrior who can squeeze in 2 hour rides on weekdays but not 3.

I think given we are not full time cyclists the best WKO can do is really just track our rides and hopefully give us an idea of what we should be doing otherwise I think given all the above my body is a better indicator. Take for instance today, now with my night class I have to shoot on weekends. I ride yesterday for 2 hours with straight L3 work (~205), went to the beach at Cony Island, shot for 5 hours, went home, had dinner at the in-laws, woke up today early as the guys will be here any minute for another 3-5 hour shoot so I can get in another 2 hours. I really thought today I would be beat! But I got on the bike and felt great, I tried to do 2 x 45 @ ~220. Finished the entire ride at 2 hours at 210 normalized with TSS of ~145. Now how can WKO really handle all the other **** in my life? Bottom line it can not but it is a great guide.





-js
 

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Felt_Rider

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Oct 24, 2004
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Originally Posted by dsb137 .

Being very un Schleck like the mountains aren't my friend... Descending is a blast... Climbing, not so much....

I was just curious if the cycling fitness you experience at the ~80 CTL mark is because of the increased riding or if by getting in that much riding means a corresponding decrease in lifting...

I can empathize on the mountains.

The fitness and rise of my CTL is by consistent cycling training and in spite of lifting.
I've been following the spirit (principles) or the overview of this thread expressed here in bullet items for more than a year now.
http://www.cyclingforums.com/t/314849/its-killing-me-but/4740#post_4010686


My cycling training is a little over 9 hours per week and I try to do as the bullet items. My schedule is listed here http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2011/09/fall-into-place.html I am sure I could improve a lot of things about my schedule, but for a recreational cyclist I am pretty happy with the current load.

I rarely discuss my lifting schedule here because it seems to cause confusion, but that amounts to about 5 hours per week. I still maintain the same lifting schedule that I have done for many years, but there are a couple of things that have changed because of age and injuries that I cannot train with the same load. However, because I have been training with weights for a very long time I am very efficient as I move about the gym. I am losing size. When I started cycling in 2004 I was 190 on a lightweight 5'6" frame and I am currently about 162 lbs. Still more than 20 pounds heavier than my cycling buddies of the same height. Hurts on the hills, but getting better.
 

limerickman

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Jan 5, 2004
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Just an update.

I've been doing some road running for the past few weeks. Hitting between 25-30 miles per week which isn't bad for an old fart like me. With daylight hours drastically reduced and not wanting to sit on a trainer too much, road running is keeping my weight in check and my fitness up.
 

Felt_Rider

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Oct 24, 2004
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If my recent series of posts caused any confusion to this thread it was not intentional. I seem to get carried away with my posts, but in simple terms that even as a recreational cyclist and following the most basic principles of [COLOR= #0000cd]Submaximal Work[/COLOR], [COLOR= #0000cd]Consistency[/COLOR] and [COLOR= #0000cd]Duration[/COLOR] my fitness has improved this year and that my CTL (fitness level through consistent training) has improved enough to keep up with my cohorts. I am not here to proclaim anything that I have done other than apply these principles with honest effort.

Around this time last year I was looking forward to seeing what a winter of focused traing would result for spring 2011 and now I look forward to seeing the results in spring 2012 with a continued dose of the three highlighted principles above.

I am very satisfied with this simple path.
 

jsirabella

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felt->Enjoy the success.

LM->I can not imagine doing that much running. I hear my joints screaming now!

-js
 

Sillyoldtwit

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Jan 13, 2006
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Originally Posted by RapDaddyo .

Actually, I think we'll be hearing from the OP soon. Tyson (aka SOT) got in touch recently and told me he has begun to train for a 200km mountain ride next June. He has been riding his CT with efforts in the 180-220W range with some road rides at ~17mph avg speed. He will post his numbers soon. So, the thread may see a revival of its original purpose./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif


Hi!

Yes, I have been in touch with RapDaddyo and I did say I wouldn’t post here again until I had something worth posting. However, the above post has forced my hand and I would like to make a couple of corrections.

Since departing the forum, my training like my weight has been a real roller coaster ride, fluctuating as often as the incoming tide. With the big 7 - 0 coming up next August, I decided it was time to get a grip and do something special on or near my 70th b’day.
IT’S NOW OR NEVER!!

Last week I mounted the trainer for the first time since some time last year. Did 2 x 10 @ 180 increasing slowly to 220 watts. (just to get the feel)
After the fiasco with the CompuTrainer way back in this forum, I was very careful to maintain a minimum speed above14mph, in fact I kept the speed up around 17mph.
(Not on the road as stated above/img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif)
On the road I’m still able to plod along steadily at 20mph, and on the straight and flat near my home, where (for those of you who remember back at the beginning of this thread) I struggled one day to maintain 30kph drafting behind a guy who passed me, I am now capable of belting the 2 km at 38-42 kmph solo./img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif

Which brings me to today. I mounted “The Rack” warmed up and set the power to 180W. I wasn’t out to prove anything except that I could continue for 40 mins non-stop at a cadence of 85 - 90. Physically it was a piece of cake; mentally it was a piece of rock./img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif Just to keep pedalling for 40 minutes at 18+ mph and a cadence between 85 and 90, required definite mental stamina.
It has been said many times in these forums, but it’s worth repeating - there is no comparison between indoors and the road when it comes to mental toughness.
Mental of course being the operative word. The CompuTrainer is totally unforgiving, not allowing you to relax for a second.

Anyway, I’ve surmounted one barrier and look forward to tackling “The Rack” again next week. I felt there was plenty of reserve power under the bonnet, however, shall not rush to ramp up the power. Steady does it!

The 200km event btw, is in the mountains of Fukui Prefecture where I did the 160km course way, way back in this thread. (page 26)

PS. Steve or someone. Is it possible to locate my original avatar? Thanks
TYSON
 

jsirabella

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Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit .



Which brings me to today. I mounted “The Rack” warmed up and set the power to 180W. I wasn’t out to prove anything except that I could continue for 40 mins non-stop at a cadence of 85 - 90. Physically it was a piece of cake; mentally it was a piece of rock./img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif Just to keep pedalling for 40 minutes at 18+ mph and a cadence between 85 and 90, required definite mental stamina.
Welcome back! My experience has been in that cadence range pretty much and no worries on the CT doing its job.

I wish you luck in your new pursuit.

-js
 

lanierb

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Aug 12, 2004
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Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit .
Last week I mounted the trainer for the first time since some time last year. Did 2 x 10 @ 180 increasing slowly to 220 watts. (just to get the feel)
After the fiasco with the CompuTrainer way back in this forum, I was very careful to maintain a minimum speed above14mph, in fact I kept the speed up around 17mph.
Welcome back! And welcome back to the pain cave... Actually I would definitely suggest going up a few gears and using an even higher speed on the CT (same cadence and power). The reason is that it gives you a bit more inertia from the rotation of the wheel and will "feel" more like riding outside. Give it a try and see what you think. For me it makes it easier to maintain the watts.
 

daveryanwyoming

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Oct 3, 2006
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Welcome back Tyson, glad to hear you're still getting after it.

Originally Posted by lanierb . ....Actually I would definitely suggest going up a few gears and using an even higher speed on the CT (same cadence and power). The reason is that it gives you a bit more inertia from the rotation of the wheel and will "feel" more like riding outside. Give it a try and see what you think. For me it makes it easier to maintain the watts....
+1 on higher wheel speeds assuming you're running the CT in ergo mode. For the preprogrammed race and ride courses, just ride the bike and shift as necessary but in ergo mode yeah, higher wheel speeds through bigger gearing definitely helps and gives a more 'roadlike' feel.

-Dave
 

Sillyoldtwit

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Jan 13, 2006
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Thanks guys for the advice on wheel speed/higher gears, shall certainly give it a whirl next CT session. As I have an iMac and don't want to pollute /img/vbsmilies/smilies/rolleyes.gif it by downloading Windows, I can only use the CT in ergo mode, which is fine with me.
Using a much higher gear than I used to use back in the bad old days, already feels much better; I can't believe I was so stupid as to not realise that using the lowest gear possible and ignoring speed was totally misguided.

For anyone having come across this thread recently, I feel I should explain my philosophy regarding training. Having a dislike for mathematics, I do not follow the all the training methods as advocated by RapDaddyo, Dave and many others. RapDaddyo once called me a "feely-feely" guy. So true! I listen to my body dictates vis-a-vis what I can and can't do.

I think there are basically 3 paths to improvement.

1) Get out on the bike and just ride. (severely limiting one's true potential)

2) Cherry pick what feels right for you, employing a structured approach to training without going to deep into TTS and all the other acronyms. (getting somewhere near one's true potential)

3) Follow Rapdaddyo et al, employing a wholly scientific approach to training. (realising one's full or damn near full potential)

If you're mathematically/technically minded, then (3) is the way for you. Personally, (3) takes the enjoyment out of my cycling.
That is not to say that the boffins in these forums do not enjoy their cycling. I'm sure they derive endless pleasure from pouring over the figures. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif Tyson
 

cooljazz

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Oct 16, 2004
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Good to see you back, Tyson. Looking forward to hearing about how your training for the 200k race goes.
-richard
 

Sillyoldtwit

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Jan 13, 2006
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Did my first ride over 2 hours since last December up in the mountains this morning. The course included a 6km climb with a few nasty gradients; in total did about 12km climbing. Felt pretty good. Back on the CT on Tuesday with an increase in wattage to .......?
I don't really want to talk about getting back up to an FTP of 300W, but I have to admit it is in the back of my mind.
There's definitely something magical about 300Watts, I suppose it is because not that many riders ever achieve it %wise, and to get there near the age of 70 would be immensely satisfying. This is purely a personal thing and not a "Hey look I got there, why can't you?"

There are 2 very important factors for me with regard to ramping up the wattage and being able to sit on "The Rack" inflicting pain. First, inspiring fast music (much of it Techno/Trance/img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif) and second, perhaps more important, the encouragement of my peers in this forum.

Tyson
 

RapDaddyo

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May 17, 2005
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Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit .

Did my first ride over 2 hours since last December up in the mountains this morning. The course included a 6km climb with a few nasty gradients; in total did about 12km climbing. Felt pretty good. Back on the CT on Tuesday with an increase in wattage to .......?
I don't really want to talk about getting back up to an FTP of 300W, but I have to admit it is in the back of my mind.
There's definitely something magical about 300Watts, I suppose it is because not that many riders ever achieve it %wise, and to get there near the age of 70 would be immensely satisfying. This is purely a personal thing and not a "Hey look I got there, why can't you?"

There are 2 very important factors for me with regard to ramping up the wattage and being able to sit on "The Rack" inflicting pain. First, inspiring fast music (much of it Techno/Trance/img/vbsmilies/smilies/cool.gif) and second, perhaps more important, the encouragement of my peers in this forum.

Tyson
I can relate. My most coveted rides on "The Rack" are 2hrs at 100% of my 120MP. I have a special ride mix on iTunes made just for this ride. It begins with The Eagles' "Take it to the Limit" and Percy Sledge's "Bring it on Home to Me" and gets progressively stronger, ending with The Allman Brothers' "Jessica" and The Eagles' "Already Gone." I suppose I could do this brutal ride without the music, but it would be infinitely more difficult. I really look forward to some of the hard beat tracks late in the mix and I try to avoid listening to them other than when I do this ride.
 

Sillyoldtwit

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Jan 13, 2006
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Originally Posted by RapDaddyo .

I can relate. My most coveted rides on "The Rack" are 2hrs at 100% of my 120MP. I have a special ride mix on iTunes made just for this ride. It begins with The Eagles' "Take it to the Limit" and Percy Sledge's "Bring it on Home to Me" and gets progressively stronger, ending with The Allman Brothers' "Jessica" and The Eagles' "Already Gone." I suppose I could do this brutal ride without the music, but it would be infinitely more difficult. I really look forward to some of the hard beat tracks late in the mix and I try to avoid listening to them other than when I do this ride.
LOL, I think that lot would put me to sleep on the rack./img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif Now, if you really want to get motoring, check out the following:

My Underground Madness - DJ Promo
The Bucket - Kings of Leon
Cylotron - Wizzy Noise
Weapons of Mass Destruction - SCLE
Talko Drums from Rising Sun Soundtrack
Ballroom Blitz - Sweet
Atlas - Battles
Holding Out For a Hero - Bonny Tyler
Tonight - CC Water
Move It - Cliff Richard
I Feel Love - Donna Summers (15 Minutes version)
The Grouch - Green Day
Jinx - Green Day
Honey Bee - Grinderman
Are You Gonna Be My Girl - Jet
The Glory Of Love - New Found Glory
Come In - Penta
Jumpin' Jack Flash - The Rolling Stones
Have you seen your mother Baby - Ditto
Paint it Black - Ditto
Baby Please don't Go - Them

and if I feel I'm slacking - Gary Glitter - My Gang where he sings COME ON, COME ON

plus 80 odd other songs in my iTunes Cycling Playlist

Of course you know all these songs RD/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif Ask your kids!
 

Sillyoldtwit

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Today upped the speed to 20mph + with a cadence hovering between 85 and 90 as recommended. I can't say it felt easy, in fact it was painful.

Did 1x20 @ 200W (up 20 watts from the last session) then took a 5 minute rest. At this point I knew I wouldn't do another 10 minutes without a 10 minute long track to keep me going.
So I selected Electrify by Wizzy Noises at 9.03 and knew that when the track ended I would have less than 1 minute to go. Managed it, but it was hard going.
Will stay with 200 Watts for a week or 2 to get used to grinding out the intervals on the ComPutrainer. As RapDaddyo said on more than one occasion, you will derive a lot of benefit by persevering with whatever wattage you're on. Better to consolidate than force the wattage up to a level where you give up on the interval, i.e. - a wasted session.
Tyson