It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    1:30
    NP 200

    1x5 at 230
    1x15 at 209
    1x15 at 196

    Evolution in reverse. RPE was fairly high. Second 15 affected by terrain (rolling) and descent at the end that dropped the total several watts. Hoping for good weather tomorrow night. Traveling again this weekend, so no long ride likely. CTL headed to the s---ter
     


  2. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    Much better. (Thank god.).
    [email protected]
    [email protected]
    1x15 @222
    90 min total (ballpark) at 206.

    Now if I can just get one more long one, and one more tempo one in there I think I might see some progress.
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    There will always be ups and downs in training for us mortals. You are doing the right thing by staying motivated and desiring to improve on each training session, but we know it is not the single session that determines our success. It is the consistency over weeks, months and years that will get us there.

    When I look at a bad day I try to take my focus and frustration off of that and look further out on the horizon to the long term goal.

    My CTL has gone dead flat at 88, but I am trying not to focus on this little stall in progress and look past it. I feel like I am training hard for the limited amount of time that I have, but evidently with my CTL sitting flat I am just hanging on. No big deal. I can be content with hanging on until my schedule gets lighter.

    My training last night was similar to yours
    4 x 15 at the upper limits of my L4 on the first two and bottom of L4 on the last two.

    I usually do not do short intervals like this, but I am trying to push a higher intensity at least one day a week and even have brief moments up in L5 just to let my legs feel the sting and get used to it. All other days are low L4 60 minute indoor or long outdoor rides at L3 with L2 mixed in for 4+ hours. Those are my goals, but somedays it just doesn't happen the way I want.
     
  4. Sillyoldtwit

    Sillyoldtwit New Member

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    Well, today was the last day of April and I was determined to do 1 X 60 mins @ 170Watts. Success! 170W is a very light load for me, so May should hopefully see some good progress. What I have to decide now is, should I take it steady and try 180Watts or jump to 190Watts.
    I need a very good telescope to see 300Watts or even 250Watts at this point in time. As I've been there before I hope it doesn't take too long as the big 7-0 is fast approaching. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/redface.gif

    Tyson

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Sillyoldtwit

    Sillyoldtwit New Member

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    Decided to go for 190W not 180W, so today did what I call the 190W warm up session ready for later 190W intervals, that is training without undue stress.

    Did 1x 20 @ 190Watts, then after 5 minutes rest did 1x15 @ 190Watts. Both intervals at around 20mph and a cadence between 84 and 110.

    I calculate if I increase the wattage by 5 Watts a week, I should be generating around 250Watts on my 70th b'day. It's too early to say but if I can introduce 2 or 3 '10W increases' over the course of the next 3 months , that will get me over a 250W FTP.

    I know I've mentioned this more than once before, however, one of the most important things for me is, just how fast my HR recovers after I stop pedalling. I don't train using HR, in fact I totally ignore it till the end then check how fast it drops This week it's dropping from 153 beats to 109 beats in 1 minute. This indicates that I'm getting much fitter.

    The target for October and the Lake Biwa ride is a 300W FTP. COME ON GENES, YOU CAN DO IT - HELP ME OUT HERE./img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

    Am getting the power bug again.

    Tyson

    [​IMG]
     
  6. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I love it! Keep it up! /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
     
  7. lanierb

    lanierb New Member

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    Welcome back Tyson! Glad to hear that you're back on the bike. Remember that the key is consistency so keep up a good schedule. Also, don't burn yourself out by trying to go too hard at first.
     
  8. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    Tyson-you shame us all.
     
  9. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    welcome back Tyson....

    Like many, I've watched this thread for a long time as well, and posted a few times along the way, but mainly used it for inspiration. I've had a dream of 300w for 20 mins for a long time although doubted it would become reality any time soon.... I started Jan 2011 with a best 20 min AP of only 201w and through following advice in this thread I made it to 265w by the end of last year. The good news is that continued work this year has lead me to 290w AP for 20 mins last week, and I'm now focused on closing that final 10w gap to achieve my dream.

    Keep it going, thanks for the inspiration and look forward to following your journey again!
     
  10. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Wow! How cool is that? Well done.
     
  11. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    Work, weather and family have kept me off the bike more than 2x per week 'till last week, when I got three in. I'm now approaching where I was in early April (sigh). 1x5 @260, 1x15 @235, 1x15 (210), but I had to slow down for a bridge (honest). NP for the ride was 209, which included lights and a stop to give directions to a lost cyclist. This week, I should easily get four.

    So all in all, pretty good. In addition, on Sunday, I managed to keep up with the group that was crushing me in the fall--especially in the paceline. I wasn't the first guy up the hills (not even close) but wasn't DFL either. That is progress. (NP over 3 hrs approx 194).
     
  12. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    Last night: RPE high. 1x5 @230. 1x15 @ 223. [email protected] (descent killed it), [email protected], then ran out of road. NP for the ride: 201. Should be good weather this weekend-hope to do the next 3 days.
     
  13. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    3 hr, 15 min-rolling hills @ NP 193 (which includes the effect of a 15 minute rest stop). So not bad. Plus it was hot.

    Progress.
     
  14. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    90 min (easier-still tired from Sun)--20min @ 186; 14 min @ 178 -tempo. NP=193 again.

    Legs felt good. Day off today; interval set tomorrow. See how it goes.
     
  15. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    90 min @ NP 193-
    Tried some intervals, but am adjusting to the aero position and find it difficult to hold it 2x per week. Need more practice-I'm faster when I ride aero less, ironically.

    Nonetheless, if I can do one more longish ride this week, I'll have put total TSS up around 700--most of it in tempo overall, and well over 2 hours at threshold or above. For me, that's a really big week.

    (Next week, the plan is to back off the bike a bit and start running and swimming.) Chosen "A" event is an olympic distance tri in September. So it really is all about the FTP.
     
  16. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    This is normal. Most riders see their sustainable power drop a bit initially in the aero position. But, as you spend more time in the aero position, you will recover your sustainable power at all durations unless your position is restricting your stoke or your breathing (e.g., if your knees are coming up so high they bump your abdomen).
     
  17. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Don't try and go too low. Start off with the angle of your back about the same as your regular road bike position and bring your armrests in such that your upper arms "shield" your legs. You need to learn how to relax on the aero bars, such that you can ride a dead straight line easily under effort, make gentle turns in the road and climb shallow grades effectively without breaking an aero tuck, and it'll take a longer to do this while you're also struggling to pedal.

    Getting your head lower is important too - try "shrugging it down." The easiest way to visualize this on the bike is to try and get my jaw as low as possible, without moving the jaw itself.

    You may find it useful to tilt your helmet back a little to give you better visability up the road without lifting your head so much. I find sometimes my helmet slips forward and it block the view and forces me to raise my head to see - which likely increases drag. Adjust the retention lock on the back of the helmet to negate slipage as much as comfortably possible. I find using 3M's cheap saftey glasses, which are rimless, good for riding in a low position. ANSI rated for impact resistance and cost $9 from Home Depot. If I wear my Oakleys, I have to lift my head up higher to see under the top rim of the glasses, or drop the glasses a little down the front of my nose so I can see over the top - which defeats the purpose of having glasses on in the first place.

    As for tri/aero bar pad placement, I find I feel best when the pads are about 2/3rds the way down my forearm, closer to my elbow. Any closer to my wrists and I get neck/shoulder ache and any closer to my elbow I seem to be able to get less leverage on the bar for times when you want to stay aero but you're climbing a shallow grade. If I have the bars such that my elbows are on the pads I notice a big drop in short term power too.

    Aero helmet - it's hard to beat the "$ to aero" value of an aero helmet. Only clip on bars beat it.

    Gloves - for aero, no mitts is better than regular mits. The newer TT specific mitts are a good idea if you want mitts for the race. If it's a warm weather Tri, I wouldn't bother with them and the other time trial staple - lycra shoe covers - as the time you spend putting them on will be about the same amount of time you'll save by using them :p

    For your race, if you're using regular rims, run a tire thats the same width as the rim - probably a 19mm. Go to a 21 or 22mm tire if you're using the latest HED or Zipp wheels.
     
  18. hrumpole

    hrumpole New Member

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    2.5 hours @ 204 (road bike, unstructured group ride). Most of it felt easy, but legs are dead today. Go figure. Next interval ride likely Tuesday--a couple of days off and some other activities would be good.

    With respect to aero-very little chance of knees coming up that high. Hip mobility for me is extremely poor (i'd go broke as a pole dancer.). Most of the problems recently come from seat discomfort (toughening up on the adamo, I think), and upper body fatigue in the upper back. In addition, There is not a lot of drop. (maybe 5cm).

    Love the idea of the home depot glasses--have the same problem with the ones that I wear. The position is, I think, pretty good given my own limiters, and when fresh and my a** is not chewed up, usually find about a 1.3 or more MPH difference for the same power. It's the upper body and nether regions that get tired; the legs feel more or less OK. (In fact, if I can figure out the seat, I can see myself improving quite a bit in that position as long as I ease into it).

    As to gear--$9 @ home depot sounds good. Telling the mrs about helmets, or race wheels is out of the question. Possibly a disc cover for the event and a front wheel rental.
     
  19. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    John Cobb has a great website on setting up your saddle. John is a noted expert on wind tunnel testing and has taken an interest in saddle design and saddle setup. FWIW, I am planning to buy and test John's HC170 racing saddle for two new bikes I am planning to buy for next year. Here's John's website: http://cobbcycling.com/
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I am in the same spot as I recently purchased my first TT frame and build up. On a side note I ended up with a Cobb Cycling saddle (V-flow Plus) and it was a roll of the dice as I had no prior knowledge or experience, but that saddle is really working out well for me. I think I have seen this written before that a the comfort quality of the saddle is such that you never think about the saddle while you are riding. It is something that should melt out of the presence of your mind while training or riding. If you think about your saddle at any given point then either a new saddle or an adjustment needs to be made. So far I have the only thought I have had about the Cobb saddle was that I was not thinking about the saddle. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

    Back to the aero position. Being a newbie on the TT bike it is working out well for me on the timing. I returned from vacation with CTL / fitness dropping from 88 to 60 and now that I am ramping back up it was a good time to ease back in action and use this time to get familiar with the bike. The first week with the bike I did a short 40 mile just to check out the professional FIT as the fitter asked. Everything checked out fine and the bike felt good. The second week I did an 88 mile route and started to get used to riding in aero position for the majority of that route and then a 40 mile the route the following day. This past Saturday was an 80 mile route and missed Sunday due to a family gathering - ugh!

    Each time I am finding that my sustainable power is coming up, but I can see that I may need weeks more to really get my power output up to what I can do with my road bikes. The more I do the more confidence I am gaining like staying in aero on downhill twisty sections and not fear of losing control and staying in aero, using gearing to climb up rollers and push through the crest of the hill and hammer down the other side. Saturday on the 80 mile route I believe I was in aero for 95% of the route. I came out of aero when approaching intersections and on a few sharp short rollers that I had to do a standing climb. The first 40 going out was in sustained headwinds, but that aero position was awesome and I could feel the wind just blowing across the back of my jersey. My speed was impacted some, but not near as much as riding in the drops of the road bike. So far these long rides getting used to the TT FIT has resulted in sustained L2 sessions (kind of low), but I will take those as I am starting to see the sustained power output gradually coming up with more experience.

    I have no plans on racing in the future, but no doubt "practice makes perfect" in getting the most of the TT bike. Weird to say and it may be perception that getting back on my road bike my handling seems to have become more crisp as if somehow getting used to the TT bike has helped in some way.

    Anyway RDO and swampy give great advice.
     
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