It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. dominikk85

    dominikk85 New Member

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    isn't 5 Watts/kg world class?
     


  2. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    No, but it's still quite solid for amateur riders. Around here it's what you'd expect from a lot of male Category 1 or 2 amateur racers. Start approaching 6 w/kg and you're talking world class.
     
  3. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Yeah, I am a Cat 2 and while I have some good results, there are times that I get shat out the back too, granted they have all been technical punchy crits with pros in attendance, but it sure puts things in perspective. It will take some hard work and a structured diet, I will need to gain 35+ watts and drop 13lbs. Fortunately I took some advice last year from a good friend who tolde to spend 1 more season focusing on power and not worry so much about weight. I am by no means fat, actually muscular, but 13 lbs should not be bad. As for the 35 watts we will see, I have made decent gains each season. Then in September after hearing Dave advocate SST, I decided to try a block of traing for a November race. It was a short block, but my body seemed to respond exceptionally well, so I can only hope that 4 months of focused training can bring about some real results. If not I have accomplished far more than I ever expected when I jumped into competative cycling 2 years ago, so I don't have any issues with chalking it up as a life experience and just being a dad :)
     
  4. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    1st workout in the books and not really what I would call a success, although it may not have entirely been my fault. I was using my PT on my computrainer, but using the PT #s and targeting 85% for 1hr. It felt like 90-05% though and based on my computrainer it was. Long story short I am starting to think a PT is not reliable in a trainer, I could actually change the way it read by tightening and loosening the tension on the wheel, I could tell by comparing with what my computrainer read. Anyway, I made it 20 minutes and had to let up. I tried to start back after 5 min, but my legs were toast and the next 25 min was not great even based on the #s from my trainer :(
     
  5. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    But it is a success depending on how you look at it.
    It was your 1st step in starting the new season. It will get better both in terms of how you feel indoors and getting the equipment sorted out. I have had days either with the KK or e-Motion rollers where if felt like the resistance was double hard. I have got off the bike looked to see if the brakes were dragging, see if the resistance setting on the rollers got bumped accidently or something else and found nothing. Days where 200 watts felt like 300, but went ahead and did my time based on RPE and ignored the displayed wattage.

    Kind of how we have heard, "All you can do is all you can do."
    The way I look at training is a summation of training events rather than one event that can sometimes be a discouraging and/or frustrating day. If you get into that barbarian pain cave testosterone driven mentality think more in terms of beating your legs like a metal smith beating hot steel on an anvil. You keep pounding those legs day after day and they will change.

    A few weeks back in the saddle ramping up at a reasonable rate and you will be rolling smooth.
     
  6. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Thanks for the positive reinforcement felt! I will give it a go again tonight and mess with the trainer a bit. My original plan was to go off of last years FTP till Xmas and then test, knowing that I was going to be out of shape without testing I really didn't see the point. Plus most of my training till I test in 3 weeks was going to be 85%, so worst case I figured I would be at 90% of my current out of shape FTP. I am starting to second guess this decision though. How many of you reset your FTP lower after a long break?
     
  7. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    I'd retest for 2 reasons: 1. Use the correct intensities 2. Set a baseline to see improvement from, otherwise you just end up in a negative cycle struggling to hit outdated targets. If the break has has a significant impact on your performance I think this would be good, but wouldn't do it just for 2-3 weeks off etc.
     
  8. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I was tempted last summer after a meeting some work deadlines leading up to a week of vacation. On my return I felt really horrible kind of how you described your 1st day back. I thought about a FTP reset, but really did not want to take the time to do an official test so I left the number in WKO alone and just did what I could do on each training session. I also had to pay close attention to recovery and just take my CTL ramp rate a bit slower. I typically do horrible doing a FTP test after a break and feel discouraged so I tend not to do a test until I feel like my legs are open and responsive.

    What I did this time around while struggling to hold 85% of FT for the interval duration that I would do a few short bursts into the high 90% range. Those seemed to act like the leg openers that some describe using the day before a race. I had not done these in the past coming back from a break, but it seemed to help me get back to that FTP number a little faster. After a few weeks I was feeling pretty solid with the old FTP and started extending duration and raising the intensity to begin the progressive training.

    It seems that if you try to ramp CTL too fast you run the risk of mental and physical burn out later in the season and sort of void your whole reason for the post season break you just enjoyed. Now is a good time to enjoy letting that fitness creep up and enjoy getting settled in with the new family addition.

    Edit: just a note that I don't have enough years of experience on this subject so it is still very much a learning experience for me as well.
     
  9. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    I disagree. I think it is more likely that your CT is giving you a false reading. I own a CT Pro and a PT Ant+ hub. I will calibrate my CT from my PT but not vice versa. In fact, after experimenting with the CT rolling resistance calibration method and results when I first got it several years ago, I don't use it. Instead, I machined a custom adapter for the press-on force knob and bought a low-range torque wrench. I set my press-on force with the torque wrench and adjust the torque force as necessary for tire wear.

    As to retesting your FTP, if it were me I would just retest at the duration I want to use for my standard L4s (e.g., 20mins). I always ride my training efforts at about 90% of my MMP for the duration anyway, so if my standard L4 is going to 20mins I only need to test at 20mins.
     
  10. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    I now have enough evidence to just nock 10% off of my FTP, at this point I doubt a test will get me any closer. I was not training with power at the start of last season, but based on my average speed on my fluid trainer I estimated a 10% loss then as well. So I am not real concerned, it will be the easiest 10% I gain all season.
     
  11. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I figured that was going to happen with getting back into the groove and doing intervals it become evident fairly quickly what you can do without a test. That is also why I did not alter my FTP at all because it did not seem worth changing the number like a 10% difference for a couple or three weeks. It only took a couple of weeks before I was right back up to the FTP in the first of the intervals. With a 2 x 20 I could hold 91% on the first (with a lot of discomfort) and the second I was in the high 80's. A couple weeks later I was holding both and soon after that I was up to 3 x 20's. I am also not genetically blessed in endurance sport either so I would imagine those of you that are will adapt at a faster pace. It just makes me wonder if it is even worth changing.

    My guess is that you will be changing that number back up very soon.
     
  12. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    I changed it because it was making it impossible to reach my goals for my weekly TSS, unless I increased the volume, which was not the plan. I went out yesterday and trashed myself for 2.5 hrs and came home with 130 TSS, I knew I had to change it at that point.
     
  13. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Today was a solid day, I am finally feeling my legs coming back. My workout was really just recovery L1/L2, but I used the last .5 mile of a 1 mile climb in the computrainer to see what my legs had. Only 2.5 min at my 5 min MMP, but it felt great, hopefully progress will continue and I will get back to my FTP quickly so I can blow right past it.
     
  14. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I get my trainer bike back tomorrow from fairly extensive sweat damage. I think it is even responsible for seeping past the rubber flap on my Garmin 800 and damaging the USB port. Tonight I did a little DIY sweat guard project hoping to keep some of the sweat off the front of the bike and the Garmin. It might be kind of goofy, but I had to try something else to protect the bike while training on the rollers.

    Training on the fluid trainer is different because the bike is locked in and covering the front with a towel is a good cheap solution.

    I haven't tested it out yet so we will see. Hopefully it will keep the sweat away from the headset, brakes and maybe even prevent it from running down the cables.

    http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/2012/12/sweat-guard-prototype.html
     
  15. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Very creative Felt, but since the Garmin is wireless why not fab a simple bracket that holds the CPU way out in front of the bike but still angled up to be visible and then just protect your headset and stem with a simple cloth wrap taped or velcroed into place?

    -Dave

    P.S. Ya still enjoying the e-motion rollers? It's been wet cold and even a bit snowy in places here lately so I've been logging a lot more time on mine recently. Still not my best tool for pure Threshold work or above but amazing how I can ride Tempo/SST on them for 2+ hours something I could never bring myself to pull off on a fixed trainer.
     
  16. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Thanks Dave

    I have been thinking about what you recommend. That may be coming especially if things work out and I can get an iPad. Having a large tablet display (for my old eyes) sitting a few feet away well out of harms way would be pretty cool. I used my iPhone sitting on a chair last week with the bar wrapped while waiting on the warranty replacement Garmin.

    I work as a designer so I get these ideas in my brain and want to crank up the shop tools. /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

    I feel like I am getting my $'s worth out of the rollers. I do all my weekday intervals on the rollers and I think they are among one of the best purchases I have made for cycling since my training volume has increased compared to when I just had the trainer.
     
  17. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    I use one of these http://sportfactoryproshop.com/cycleopsbikethongsweatguard.aspx, two hand towels on the hoods and saran wrap over my head unit, keep the sweat off all the important stuff.
     
  18. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Yep, I use a Cycleops thongs like your link. It is hard to see, but it is under the Lexan guard that I made last night. I am really hoping this works after I just picked up the trainer bike and the bill for all the work and replacement of damaged parts. Wow! what a great job he did and more than I expected. The bike is a C-dale six13 frame mixed with carbon and aluminum. Sweat found a way under the clear coat and was corroding (pitting) the aluminum. The stem had to be replaced, headset bearings were trashed, cables and housings were ruined, front brake calipers were almost ruined, bottom bracket had to be replaced, chain replaced due to usual wear, front hub cleaned, he took down all the impacted frame areas to metal and put 10 coats of clear coat, seat post was siezed and everything was taken apart to make sure it wasn't seized. The shifters have etching on them from were sweat was running down, but we kept those on since those are hard to protect.

    The shop owner and his partner also build custom bikes and parts and liked my prototype. They gave me some good feedback on some things I can do on the next prototype model and for quick attachment to the bars. Adding a dehumidifier a few months ago has also helped a lot. We can be diligent to cover and wipe down the bike, but it is where sweat seeps into all the small parts and even will find a way under the clear coat to do a fair amount of damage.

    Thankfully this is still just a trainer bike and training continues.
     
  19. gudujarlson

    gudujarlson New Member

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    Is sweat any worse than rain, snow, and winter road sand/salt? I use my Garmin 500 outside in all weather and it has not failed yet. I do have to tape the rubber seal closed because it has never closed properly.
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I think you are doing good to tape it shut. If you did a web search you will find many 800 / 500 owners griping about the dust flap as Garmin calls it not sealing very good and because of this the USB port is impacted. This time around I am going to be much more careful about keep the Edge protected while training indoors and outdoors make sure that flap is closed good and stays closed.
     
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