It's killing me but..........

[Felt_Rider]

To be accountable to what I hope to achieve (at the recreational level of cycling /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif) and to the preaching the consistency aspect here is my Strava profile. I do keep my indoor training events private mainly because I am simply embarrassed with my low FTP value, but I am fairly content where I am considering that my body favors the gym a whole lot more than the bike.

From a simplistic overview goal is to fill each of those calendar days, except Friday, with an effort that has at least 85 to 90 TSS from quality work. In each of those events I have to do L4 to get to 90 TSS because I rarely have more than 90 minutes available to train during the weekday. Part of that 90 minutes is warm up, cool down, and waste between intervals. So it is more like 60 minutes of actual quality training time. With that my CTL is trending upward at a very slow pace, but something that I think I can manage to handle for a long period.

http://app.strava.com/athletes/648308

 

[jsirabella]

felt,

Ninety minutes can work, only last year I started to value RECOVERY so you may hit higher numbers than you think. Today was a good example for me as it would be committing a sin not to ride on Sunday but I had a good ride Friday and yesterday I got in 2 1/2 hours which started to feel like the legs were opening up. I got a 150 TSS so instead of getting back on and grinding it out I decided to give a better effort tomorrow and get some work done. I also did 30 minutes in the TT bars and felt ok. At the end of every 30 minutes I spent 5 minutes in the bars and than on the last 30 minutes I stood 10 minutes. Will keep adding to that also. If I do an event I would like that to be my event of choice.

In an effort to be accountable I will every so often post a chart from TKO as right now I am just starting to get back into the game as I took off about 6 mos or so with all the usual reasons so my CTL is in the 50-60 right now. I hope to get back to form by the better weather and get back or a reasonable facsimile of it.

-js

 

[kopride]

I did my first 40 minute piece in almost 3 years. I took Dave's advice and just spun and watched Spartacus without watching my PM. I did see some low 200 readings from time to time as I got more comfortable. No pain which was my big issue. My cleats were a bit loose and I couldn't quite dial in my positioning on the pedals. I was experimenting a while back with my cleats a bit behind the ball. I'm not sure I'm digging it now. Just too cold to go out and I was worried that if I started aggravating my surgical site, I couldn't just jump off. I will provide updates on my road back

 

[Felt_Rider]

I mentioned this on an earlier post that it is exciting to see a lot of activity/discussion of people training and those making a comeback sort of speak. I do like reading this.

js, if I could and I had the time I would probably lean more toward what you do with those 2 hour sessions since it fits more toward the goals that I want to achieve.
kop, glad to hear that you are easing back in and ramping up slow so not to aggrivate and let that area heal up.
bg, rooting for you to get back on track and have another great season
bp, I see your efforts and the numbers you are holding. Impressive, keep up the diligence
fluro, seen your efforts on Strava and putting down some consistent training.

I am pretty much motivated too, but looking at the activity of others that are sharing on these dicussions just makes it all the more exciting.

I am not sure what is going on with me. I bumped up my FTP back on January 11th and was struggling to hold the new 91% mark and was landing more like 88% for 20 minutes, but I realized a lot not being able to hold the new values was fatigue and soreness coming from training legs. When rested I could hold the numbers so I knew the adjustment was the right thing to do. Plus my CTL was going up rapidly and my TSS was looking inflated compared to how I was really feeling post ride so I feel like bumping up the number was the right thing.

Saturday I had to go in and work so I did not get in my long ride. I went home and got on the rollers (road bike and PT wheel) and held the first 30 minutes at 90% FT and it did not seem difficult at all. I did a 20 minute interval next and bumped up the intensity and ended that one with 93% and could have gone harder. I did another 20, but intentionally backed off so I could train on Sunday. Sunday my goal was to do a 2 x 60 at Tempo and mainly to get in some time tucked in aero on the TT bike. On that bike I use a Quarq PM so the values are a little higher than the PT wheel, but I was seeing numbers above my FT and it did not feel difficult at all. On the return a guy went by me on a TT bike and I picked up the pace so that I could pace with him, but not in his draft. We traded lead position back and forth, but was holding numbers above my FT, but nothing really sustained because we were weaving through foot traffic and had to stop at some intersections. Very nice guy and was also happy to have some to push up his pace a little more.

But I was surprised that I could do that after Saturday's good L4 intervals. Not sure what is going on since it was just a few weeks ago that I bumped up my FT.
Maybe it was just a fluke and a good couple of days. My glutes and quads are kind of buzzing and a little sore this morning though. Tonight is active recovery and cadence drills.

Also has anyone here used those recovery/compression tights, calf or socks?
I oreder a pair of compression tights to use while training legs, but a coworker a very good female triathlete says she uses them a lot now. She said she was skeptical at first as well, but after trying them post race or training she did feel like they worked. I see a lot of triathletes using them. I guess I will give them a try and see.

 

[bgoetz]

Felt- I use compression, although I only use it when I need to recover for a hard key workout, or a race. I come from the belief that allowing a natural recovery process is beneficial. They do work though, I find that I get about 6hrs of non sore legs before the soreness returns. My legs feel sort of weak though initially, so I remove them a couple hours before a key event.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

Also has anyone here used those recovery/compression tights, calf or socks?
I oreder a pair of compression tights to use while training legs, but a coworker a very good female triathlete says she uses them a lot now. She said she was skeptical at first as well, but after trying them post race or training she did feel like they worked. I see a lot of triathletes using them. I guess I will give them a try and see.

I have a pair of Skins compression tights and only got them because they were on sale. In retrospect a great training aid, particularly after particularly hard and/or long rides, and especially since one of my favorite things to do after one of those workouts when zonked out is to settle down with some online Call of Dooty... which when wearing the tights can call part of my "active" recovery /img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif

Certainly can't be any worse than letting the blood pool down by my feet.

Apparently Vince Lombardi had his guys wearing ladies pantyhose in the 60's for this reason. whether true or not I dunno.

 

[bgoetz]

In Allen Lim's the Feedzone there is a photo of Levi sitting on the couch with actual inflatable shock pants on. Now those are some serious compression!

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .

In Allen Lim's the Feedzone there is a photo of Levi sitting on the couch with actual inflatable shock pants on. Now those are some serious compression!

I've seen that photo - pretty intense.

The heart is great at getting oxygenated blood out to the body, but it's really just back pressure and valves getting the de-oxygenated blood back to the heart. It's the reason massage is fundamentally helpful in assisting recovery - essentially someones hands are helping move the blood past these valves. Imo, these compression tights are the next best thing. Then again, being a swannie for a number of years may have me a little biased.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Thanks guys
I bought them mainly because a good compression tight adds a little more comfort and feeling of stability while doing squats, but I may end up using them more for recovery if it seems to help. I have never used compression in post training except for injury rehab as in RICE and most of those applications were generally localized injury compression wraps.

 

[jsirabella]

felt - Like the post. Yeah it should be interesting to see where we end in all of this but it is starting to feel like 2009 again.

I did not know you got the TT bars and putting in the time on them. If there is an event other than the long rides I want to do than that is it. It will be a challenge to stay that long in that position for me but today I did 15 minutes in that position and it felt pretty good. I first did a 2 x 25 @ ~205 and than dropped to the bars. It actually really relaxes the back side for me as my back side is basically off the seat but I did stretch at the 15 minute and my ham string was definitely being compressed a bit much as it stung. It went away pretty fast. Just got to find that right position. The rest was all L3 and got my 2 hours in.

Will do straight L3 tomorrow and hoping to get in a bit more than 2 hours and more time in the bars.

ko- spartacus huh? I have been having Lost Girl play in the back ground and up to second season now. I play everything on mute and watch the pretty pictures. That is whY I always need eye candy like Sucker Punch playing with the music blaring.

Wake up the factory at 6 am!!!

-js

 

[Bigpikle]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

Thanks guys
I bought them mainly because a good compression tight adds a little more comfort and feeling of stability while doing squats, but I may end up using them more for recovery if it seems to help. I have never used compression in post training except for injury rehab as in RICE and most of those applications were generally localized injury compression wraps.

I recently got some 2XU compression tights after reading a few reviews and research results, primarily for recovery and in particular for recovery after L4 rollers sessions when I know I want to get out and hit it again the next day. Only had them a couple of weeks so cant really comment yet.

Cheers for the encouragement. Hit a solid tempo session on the roads for a change today for just over 2 hours. New 2hr power PB @ 240w AP which just edged my previous best set after a summer of threshold and tempo work last year. Makes me feel pretty happy that all the indoor work didnt just boost my 20 min power and that it carried over well into longer intervals. Lots more 2 and 4hr rides needed to boost the right hand side of my power curve for this season's events!

 

[RapDaddyo]

Originally Posted by Bigpikle . Cheers for the encouragement. Hit a solid tempo session on the roads for a change today for just over 2 hours. New 2hr power PB @ 240w AP which just edged my previous best set after a summer of threshold and tempo work last year. Makes me feel pretty happy that all the indoor work didnt just boost my 20 min power and that it carried over well into longer intervals. Lots more 2 and 4hr rides needed to boost the right hand side of my power curve for this season's events!

Wow! Great improvement. It shows that your work on longer L4 efforts is beginning to kick in. Well done. You're on track to a great ride.

 

[gudujarlson]

Hasn't compression clothing been partly debunked? http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/05/short-term-recovery.html

 

[Felt_Rider]

I read a few articles regarding compression garments, but what stood out to me was the amount of people that felt as if there was something positive about wearing compression in post training recovery. I have yet to try it as noted above, but we have 3 here on this board that are trying compression and I have a coworker that speaks positive about them.

One article that I read yesterday was from a sports trainer and physiologist wrote that did make sense to me. He went on to say that even if there is no scientific proof to backup up the marketing hype of the compression wraps or clothing manufacturers there is something that cannot be ignored by the incredible amount of athletes claiming that they do seem to have a positive effect on the mental attitude of the althete and a positive mental attitude can greatly enhance the next training session apart from scientific proof.

When I was reflecting on this article it brought to my mind how a really good training partner in lifting is crucial to performance gains. Now the lifting by the individual is the most important aspect, but one of the greatest attributes of a training partner comes in the art of spotting during a heavy lift. Same with having a really good coach in lifting. I can tell you from two points of view that it does have a positive impact.

From the lifter's point of view the best spotter for me on a max squat was that the spotter just touch my lifting belt with their fingers, but not assist unless I really needed help. It is amazing what happens mentally when there is this sensation of those fingers touching the body. Is the person helping? Hopefully not, but it can produce a very positive end result. Now we know that touching the belt with fingers has nothing to do with the actual strength and ability on that particular squat day, but it helps in the mental aspect and sometimes that is a greater hurdle than the physical aspect.

From the coach or spotter's point of view the art of being a good spotter is to make it appear that you are helping the lifter or available to help removes that mental fear of failure. So the end result is the lifter actually doing the lift on their own. The end result is a positive result getting that lifter past a mental barrier.

Maybe there is less of this mental barrier game in the world of endurance sport, but I know that out of more than 20 pairs of cycling shorts and bibs my favorite are Desoto (I have more than 10 pair of Desto bibs and shorts) and the material is very compressive. Is that beneficial to actually producing excellent sustainable power output in a training event? Not at all. I have plenty of Hincapie bibs and shorts as well and can do just as well with those, but I like the feeling of Desoto and when I feel good I tend to perform better.

So it could be that all these people that like wearing compressive garments and how they feel while wearing them have a positive mental outlook and if they feel it is helping and if it has a positive outcome at the next training does it have some value?

I just like that feeling when my quads are sore to have a material tightly hugging them. Maybe that is why other people like these garments. I guess I will find out once I get my first pair of compression pants and see what happens in the weeks to come.

 

[danfoz]

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider .

I read a few articles regarding compression garments, but what stood out to me was the amount of people that felt as if there was something positive about wearing compression in post training recovery. I have yet to try it as noted above, but we have 3 here on this board that are trying compression and I have a coworker that speaks positive about them.

I am never one to argue with scientific study, however we did have a post sometime back on another thread that suggested drinking was less important than we believed in riding performance. I do like the feel of the compression wear feels on sore legs after a ride, and I also like the way water feels on my parched lips. If for those reasons alone, I'll keep up the practice.

it's interesting the cooling effect is also poopoo'd. As a former LMT often slaving for sometimes 6-8 hours a day, I can tell for certain that if not for putting my hands in a bucket of ice water after every shift for 10 or 20 minutes my career wouldn't have lasted a week, let alone a number of years. I once forgot and was awoke at 4am by my screaming hands.

 

[Felt_Rider]

Originally Posted by danfoz .


I am never one to argue with scientific study, however we did have a post sometime back on another thread that suggested drinking was less important than we believed in riding performance. I do like the feel of the compression wear feels on sore legs after a ride, and I also like the way water feels on my parched lips. If for those reasons alone, I'll keep up the practice.

it's interesting the cooling effect is also poopoo'd. As a former LMT often slaving for sometimes 6-8 hours a day, I can tell for certain that if not for putting my hands in a bucket of ice water after every shift for 10 or 20 minutes my career wouldn't have lasted a week, let alone a number of years. I once forgot and was awoke at 4am by my screaming hands.

Awesome!

That alone could have save me a lot of my longwinded ramblings /img/vbsmilies/smilies/smile.gif

 

[jsirabella]

Sometimes it just makes no sense to me when I will be able to predict a good vs, bad session going to happen. Today was one of those days where I thought yesterday that today would be good given I took the day off and had planned 50 minutes 190-200 and than 15 minutes in the bars with rest being L3/L2 for 2 hours.

Well anyway I wake up feeling achy, I really did not want to get on the bike. I force myself on thinking that I would be lucky to hold some L3/L2 for 2 hours if I can do 2 hours and than for some reason 10 minutes in, the legs light up. I am doing 180 and it feels like nothing and than 20 minutes I take it up to 200. Takes about 10 minutes to settle in and I can tell this is just too easy and thinking I would probably fall apart 30 minutes in but low and behold it just continues to fly by and I finish an hour @ 210 and than at the same number I plow through in the bars giving my like 205 or so for 90 minutes. I could have probably done another 30 minutes but I decided not to push my luck and lets get in a good L3 ride tomorrow.

I felt something happen in Tuesday cause the L3 ride was pretty easy and I can tell by today that something did happen. It is just too nutty though how crappy and not into it I felt before I got on the bike. I ofcourse felt suddenly pretty damn good after it....lawl.

-js

 

[tonyzackery]

Originally Posted by jsirabella .

Sometimes it just makes no sense to me when I will be able to predict a good vs, bad session going to happen.
-js

Damn, ain't that the gospel truth with me too. Best laid plans get laid to waste from time-to-time...

 

[jsirabella]

TZ, I have not been here in a while but I lurked and have not seen your posts. Still racing?

-js

 

[Bigpikle]

So it looks like I'm going to have the best part of 3 weeks coming up with pretty much as much time as I want for training - as long as the weather plays ball of course...

Given most of the last few months has been spent doing fairly short sessions on the rollers much of the time doing SST & L4 work, I'm wondering if there is merit in spending this time doing a block of long L2/3 work? My target event is 205km, making it slightly longer than any ride I've done before, and it was last summer when I was last doing 140-170km rides. I feel that endurance is still something of a weakness and am thinking that a block of long rides might give me a slight boost in that area? I'd have to dial back the intensity from my current level to cope with the volume but would 3 weeks of high volume L2 work have the desired effect of boosting endurance significantly or am I better off just sticking with the current schedule of mixing L4 sessions with 2 hr tempo rides and a weekly 3..5-4hr ride? The end of the 3 week period would still be almost 4 months from the event, so there is plenty of time for adaption and continued FTP focused work afterwards.

I've seen quite a lot written recently about the 'block periodisation' approach and suggestions it can be very effective, although the studies reported all seem to make high intensity work the main activity in the block followed by easier weeks. I'm not clear therefore whether a block of high volume and low intensity would have the same impact?

Appreciate any thoughts on this. Thanks