As js mentioned most of us look at you as what we would love to achieve but cannot. Just think that you quickly went to a level that most will never be able to achieve. When I looked the list of competitors in Battenkill the other day there were so many listed at all levels. Though your expectations are tough on yourself, and that is not a bad trait, just keep remembering where you are at and how quickly you got there. As danfoz said most of us have recognized your fast rate of progression and we realize you are going against guys that have many years of training and racing experience. The more years and races under your belt to go along with consistent training it will get better.Originally Posted by bgoetz .
It has been one busy week! I finally had a chance to look at my data from Battenkill and I must say I am somewhat disapointed. It really shows nothing spectacular (when compared to some other races/MMP#s) basically 2 mid-400 watt hits for 2.5 minutes up Juniper Swamp and then the long climb were the "lights went out" where I averaged just under 400 watts for 7 minutes. No new max efforts where I catostrophically exploded, although I guess I have likely never put out that type of effort after 2hrs of racing either.
As the week drug on and I had a chance to reflect my disappointment grows, especially once I saw that the race basically finished in a 45 person sprint. I can't help, but think of the few opportunities I had to get myself back into the race with just one more hard effort (grabbing a wheel that came by at the top of the climb, bridging across when our chase group got within 200 meters of the lead group, or going out on my own when everyone ended the chase). Instead I elected to try to take the easy route, almost comforted by the fact that the rest of my day would be "easy" since I was out of the race. I would not be so frustrated with myself had I not done nearly the same exact thing the week prior. The only thing I can think is that my quickness to end the pain in these races is somewhat a reflection of writing too many big checks during my training.
As far as training goes, I have felt really fatigued this week, and recovery has taken longer than expected. I am really just doing what I can this week trying to maintain my CTL, as starting next week I will really just be focusing on racing for the next few weeks.
Hopefully I have just not removed myself from the hard intense training long enough to experience the freshness and drive that I am looking for in races. And that over these next few weeks things will come together and I can get some reward for all my hard work.
Yeah, it's pretty easy to code up in Excel but for day to day stuff (as opposed to planning a specific big build or taper) I just estimate as follows:Originally Posted by bgoetz .
I have on that Dave sent me at one point, I can email it to you.
Crits are not long and don't typically push your aerobic capacity. They do push your anaerobic capacity, so the best crit-specific training is to mimic the accelerate-cruise-accelerate-cruise pattern. I can and have done this on my trainer and on the road. My preferred trainer workout is 6sec at 600W + 24sec at ~85%FTP and repeats for 1/2 hr or 1 hr. These are easy on my CompuTrainer because it is programmable, but you can do them on a standard trainer with a repeating stopwatch timer. The 6sec at 600W mimics the acceleration out of corners to get up to speed and the 85%FTP mimics the cruise to the next corner. Almost no course is going to require an average of 2 corners per minute, so this is a more demanding workout than most courses. Outside, I try to find a church parking lot on weekdays or a school parking lot on weekends. I try to find a lot long enough for about 30secs at cruise. I accelerate out of each corner leading to a straightaway to about 25mph then cruise to the turn. This acceleration typically takes 5-6secs similar to the trainer workout. As a small aside, I hate the guy that came up with speed bumps for parking lots -- what a pain!Originally Posted by wbkski .
from a physical preparedness pov... is it best to train for sprinting on a trainer or on the open road? Has anyone tried both and prefer one over the other? Any help or suggestions would be appreciated (tips on crits too!)
Yep, you've got it. If your CTL gets up to 80 and you take a day off you'll drop almost two points, etc...Originally Posted by jsirabella .
...So if I am at 60 and take the day off completely my CTL will drop by 60-0 = 60 or ~1.5 points. ..
Well that depends on the hills, how much weight including what's in those panniers, and the power you're willing to put out during your commute or for the big ring question, how fast you want to be able to go during your commute. Realistically anything in the 48 to 53 tooth range would likely be fine for commuting especially if paired with a cassette that has an 11 tooth cog. Really how fast do you need to or want to go while commuting? The small ring is the bigger concern if you'll be carrying a lot of weight or want to be able to ride real easy on some days to avoid getting too sweaty or just so you have an easy spin to work option on days when you don't feel stellar. I commute with both my compact (50x34) equipped rain bike and my race bike (53x39) they're both fine but if I want a mellow cruise with the hills I hit on my commute I'll opt for the rain bike with its lower gearing. I don't really spin out either bike unless I'm really going crazy on a couple of the descents....1) I rebuilt my Rocky MT CX so I can put some panniers on it and do commutes and I know it will be hilly. I have a 42 on it but wondering what I should use for my other chain ring. Any suggestions or do you need more info? I do not know exactly how hilly but it is tough.
Tough without seeing your position, but I'd start by looking at your stem extension and wonder if it's too long. Depending on what seat adjustments you made you could be overly stretched out, a bit low with the handlebars or a combination of both that could easily lead to tightness between the shoulder blades....
2) I switched seats and amazingly have had huge jump in comfort on my LB but suddenly right between the shoulder blades I am experiencing tightness and discomfort. I am looking at my set up and using the same numbers to set up the seat? What would usually cause more stress on the upper back?
...I was doing really well throughout the race and on the final lap...BAM... blew up in the sprint to the finish. I know there has to be a trick to all of this...
Thank you. I'm going to do just that. It's .3 miles from the corner to the finish so I'm going to start training to that length. Question... should you bust out of the corner knowing you have 3/10ths to go or bust it out from the .2 or .15 mark to the finish? I know I can't sustain max anerobic power for .3 of a mile...not today anyway.Originally Posted by RapDaddyo .
Crits are not long and don't typically push your aerobic capacity. They do push your anaerobic capacity, so the best crit-specific training is to mimic the accelerate-cruise-accelerate-cruise pattern. I can and have done this on my trainer and on the road. My preferred trainer workout is 6sec at 600W + 24sec at ~85%FTP and repeats for 1/2 hr or 1 hr. These are easy on my CompuTrainer because it is programmable, but you can do them on a standard trainer with a repeating stopwatch timer. The 6sec at 600W mimics the acceleration out of corners to get up to speed and the 85%FTP mimics the cruise to the next corner. Almost no course is going to require an average of 2 corners per minute, so this is a more demanding workout than most courses. Outside, I try to find a church parking lot on weekdays or a school parking lot on weekends. I try to find a lot long enough for about 30secs at cruise. I accelerate out of each corner leading to a straightaway to about 25mph then cruise to the turn. This acceleration typically takes 5-6secs similar to the trainer workout. As a small aside, I hate the guy that came up with speed bumps for parking lots -- what a pain!
As to crit tactics, my main suggestion is to take the inside line on corners. Most newbies take the outside line believing it to be safer. But, when a rider goes down in a corner, he slides out, so actually the safest line is the inside line. Also, in the corner don't allow the guy next to you to get his shoulder ahead of your shoulder. If your shoulder is even with or ahead of his shoulder, he can't cut you off. Sprinting is a whole other topic and I'm sure you'll find some good threads here on sprinting. Good luck.
Thank you. Can you give me an example of an "L4" Interval?Originally Posted by daveryanwyoming .
Good advice above on short bursty work, but IME most lower category riders that struggle with the 'sprint' are really struggling either with the increased pace in the final laps leading to the sprint or in particular the pacing and positioning on that final lap before the sprint really winds out. What did the speed look like when you suddenly blew compared to the earlier laps where you felt all right? If you have power, what did the power look like at that point in the race.
A typical crit has three to four crazy fast laps at the start, a bunch of mellower laps in the middle when folks find their pace and their lines and things smooth out and then some really fast laps at the end leading to the sprint. Many folks do all right till those last few laps and then lose places to pack swarms or can't stay forward at the warp speed final laps. If you're not up very close (but ideally not quite at) the front in those final laps the 'sprint' may not actually happen as it's really tough to do much from ten or twenty riders back when those first few riders out of the final corners are already sprinting and you're still cornering. So to sprint well, first work on positioning well in the final laps. Actual sprinting is another discussion as RDO noted but if you can't reliably be up front and stay forward of any late race pack surges then work on that first.
I'd also say that even though it's those short punchy bursts that will make or break you in a crit it's the culmination of many of those that you feel in the final laps and how well you handle that depends on your sustainable primarily aerobic power. IOW, don't just focus on the bursty stuff, make sure you've got good staying power with things like 20 minute SST and L4 intervals in addition to the short punchy work. You'll need top end bursty speed and a lot of it but the folks with the freshest legs after all that bursting will be the folks with the higher sustainable power and higher cardiovascular fitness. So don't ignore the basic long duration power building work just because it's the bursts you feel during racing.
-Dave
Sure, a steady sustained effort at least 10 and ideally 15 to 60 minutes long where you ride hard but not so hard that you blow up and have to back off the pace before the effort is over. So IOW, a bit like a mini time trial but it can be backed off a little bit from actual race day pacing so that you can do these during normal training and perhaps do more than one interval on the same day.Originally Posted by wbkski .
Thank you. Can you give me an example of an "L4" Interval?
I don't have enough training experience to give a guy at your level advice. I believe you will do well if you ride within the fitness you have at the time of the ride.Originally Posted by Bigpikle .
Its now 9 weeks to my A event in Spain. 205km/127miles across the mountains and frankly I'm getting rather scared! Just in terms of distance thats still about the longest I will ever have ridden without factoring in 3500m/11,500ft of climbing in 3 Cat 1 ascents.
I rode a 112 mile event two weekends ago, in rolling countryside and straight into horrendous 20-25mph headwinds for the last 40 miles home and was wrecked by the end. I probably went out a little hard and sat on the front of a small group with a tailwind for the first 50-60 miles and once we turned and hit the wind it really hurt me. The group ended up going from about 8 to the 2 of us as everyone else fell away, and it took every bit of determination I had just to hang on the wheel of a very strong clubmate for the last 30 miles. In reality I was mostly about 3-5 bike lengths off his wheel for much of it, as I was just struggling to stay on, so I guess I was working almost as hard as he was to keep the pace up and in hindsight I guess this was a good effort for me.
Anyway this has me worried. My FTP is 4w/kg right now so I'm not in bad shape...........
Your post raises two questions. The first question is how to use your remaining training time to prepare for the event. The second question is your best strategy for the ride itself. I'll leave the second question for later, closer to the event. As to the first question, I advocate as many long SST/L4 sessions as you can manage with your schedule. You can certainly spend some of these sessions doing 20-30min L4 efforts at 90%+FTP, but if you keep your recovery durations relatively short (e.g., 5mins) you will still end up with an NP at or near SST. One good thing to do during some of these long rides is to develop and get comfortable with a pedal stroke you can use when you're spent. I call this a gravity-drop pedal stroke, where I don't push down at all, simply allowing my leg weight to supply all power. I can generate 125-150W with this gravity-drop stroke and it is not more demanding than walking. I use it all the time when I go out for a long solo ride and find myself totally spent with 25-30 miles to go.Originally Posted by Bigpikle .
I'm still pretty certain I need to do a lot more of these rides and push my sustainable 2hr power to its max level, and I havent done any focused L4 work really for a while, so some of that will probably be useful each week, but is it getting to the time where some L5 efforts might add a little final icing to the fitness cake? I hope never to actually ride at L5 during the event apart from maybe the steepest ramps of the Marie Blanque, but am thinking that some L5 work would boost my VO2 max and hopefully add a few W to my FTP in the short term? The question in my head though is about the sheer distance worry. Am I better off just working looooong L3/SST sessions and leaning on the high volume/lower intensity side of the equation as this is more event specific, or with such a short time left do I trade some of that volume for intensity and hopefully some shorter term gains? I have no real goals for the rest of the year so it really is all about the 22nd June for me!
Appreciate views/thoughts on this again. I really want to make the most of the precious 4 weeks I have in front of me especially now the weather seems to be more encouraging at last.
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