It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Make peace with the rain. If we waited for dry days to ride out here in Seattle we'd never ride or race. Got drenched on my commute this morning. It's no big deal, bike tires have plenty of traction on wet roads and there's plenty of good cycling rain gear out there. It does mean cleaning the bike more often but it opens up a lot more days to get outside and ride.

    Sure it's best to stay inside for the occasional hurricane or huge weather event but rain alone should not be a reason to stay inside. Look at what the Euro pros in Belgium put up with on a daily basis. It's just part of the sport.

    -Dave
     


  2. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Back in England I kinda got used to rinsing the bike off outside before putting it away in the garage. An open ended hose pipe and a bucket with soapy water that was diluted through the week by rain took care of the worst of it within a minute or two and if the chain got really bad I had a big pickle jar with diesel and a cut off paint brush took care of the drive train. Unless I was freezing cold or had bonked I didn't mind spending a few minutes giving the bike a once over and keeping it clean. If I was cold and impossibly hungry, the bike could have been left to rot in a ditch for all I cared at the time. :p Salt was the worst - it was by definition always cold when the roads were salted and most likely snowy/Icey in the backyard so cleaning the bike sucked. I couldn't let my bike get salt rot. The only time the bike would go without a wash after those rides was when I was missing skin after semi-theatrical slides across the road.
     
  3. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Seattle you say? I'm in Portland are you doing the STP this year?

    I got caught in the rain the other day and it wasn't bad, issue is I wear glasses (Need them to see) and its a constant issue. Ive tried goggles (They fog) I cant do contacts and always find something else to blow my cash on instead of Lasik. Iv';e even done rain-x on my glasses with very limited success.

    Then there is my those are my interval days excuse ;)
     
  4. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Nope, not signed up for STP, on the wait list for RAMROD but will likely get in this year as my number is pretty low. I don't do too many of the day tours around a racing schedule but RAMROD is such a good ride it's hard to pass up.

    Yeah, being able to see is pretty important. I've had decent luck with rain-x but it's not perfect. A billed cycling cap under the cycling helmet helps a lot to reduce splatter on the glasses but yeah that's a challenge.

    Nothing wrong with indoor training but I'd go crazy living in the Pacific Northwet if I never rode in the rain.

    -Dave
     
  5. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    Yikes I need to add a good 50 watts to my threshold before ill try RAMROD. Not sure what the grades are for the climbs but anything above 8% puts me above threshold just to get up.
     
  6. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    I've ridden most of the passes at one time or another and they're not terribly steep, just long. It's something like an hour and a half of steady climbing from Ashford to Paradise on Mt. Rainier but a lot of it is at 5% or 6% or less. There are a few sections near the other passes that steepen up a bit, but it's mostly the cumulative climbing and long day and not super steep climbs that make it a big outing.

    -Dave
     
  7. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Ira, I like your schedule and volume. I hope I can reach that mileage and still get in some good SST/L4. Has the volume you feel help your intense sessions?

    Today was actually a really good day by accident. My CX/Commuter had a flat so I switched to my road bike and the 53 was doing the trick today. The first two intervals @ 220 for 25 minutes were pretty good and was not sure I could do the last 10 minute interval @ 230. But I was able to nail a 235 and I think I may have been able to put in atleast 5-10 minutes more.

    Tomorrow I head for Boston and bringing the bike so hope to get some of that volume in between the convention time.

    -js
     
  8. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    I feel that the increased volume definitely helps my SST sessions and L4s when I was doing them. I think a lot of that is mental though.
    When I was averaging 6 hour per week, my longest ride was 2 hours and I was shooting for 4 sessions of SST and L4. that 2 hour ride was once a week at L2 on the trainer.

    Now I simply don't ride less than 2 hours several times per week. So when its time to crank out an Hour at intensity it just seems much easier. also my non intense rides are still a big mix of all intensities. I spend about half under L4 and half L4 and over.

    I guess if I had to boil it down id say the volume has given me the ability to recover better and mentally the 2x20s are just easier.

    I am doing almost double the TSS now compared winter
     
  9. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Hi all, it has bee a while since my last post, just figured I would post up and let everyone know I am still alive and in one piece (well sort of, I have some pretty major road rash from this past weekend). Racing is going ok, I had a good result in a VERY hard road race on Saturday, I finished 18th out of 60ish in a solid field. I rode very aggressively, unfortunately yet again the big move went when I was trying to recover from making a move of my own. These P/1/2 road races seem to have a common theme of constant attacks until a break is established (the first hour is almost always a NP of close to my FTP). The hard part is what move to follow, the guys that consistantly do well have the legs to put themselves in every move, where I have to be a bit more selective. Anyway despite missing the move, I still had a great remainder of the race and even got some good complements on how aggressively and strong I rode from some other pretty strong guys. Sunday, I managed to get impatient after nearly getting crashed and losing a few spots early in a crit. I made a move around the outside of a long sweeper and low sided @ nearly 30mph. My road rash was limited to what I could collect before the curb stopped my body from sliding across the ground. Somehow I got rash up my ass crack which freaking sucks!! Fortunately the damage does not set me back too bad on the bike. I was convinced that the crash was caused by me getting on the gas a bit too soon and clipping a pedal, but now IDK as I nearly went down yesterday while doing crit drills. It was the exact same feeling I had in the crit, like the inside of my rim actually struck the pavement on my rear wheel, I could actually confirm it by looking at the mark on the rim. I have been using my tubeless setup as my tubular needs new rubber and have been running 100psi, I am really wondering if this is not enough pressure. Anyway, I am going to start a big long taper next week and hopefully I really start to realize some rewards from all of the hard work. I am wondering how most treat their weeks during a peak. My focus was going to be allowing my body and mind to be as fresh as possible for races, doing whatever I need to make this happen. Really I was thinking of having more recovery off the bike as opposed to active recovery (gives me an extra day or two with the family). Then having my hard non race days be short, but very intense workouts, mostly real fast group rides or club races provided it allows me to be fresh for my weekend races (group rides keep things fun and duplicate the race type efforts). I thought about having an additional day of 2x20, but almost think this will be too much, especially if I have a full weekend of races, plus are those types of efforts going to actually do anything for my racing, the only TTs I have are very short prolouge TTs? What are you guys thoughts?
     
  10. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    Good efforts on those races and sorry to hear about the crash and rash! I cant offer any useful guidance on your tapering question but am sure others will add useful info and I look forward to hearing what they say.
     
  11. ira41

    ira41 New Member

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    "Somehow I got rash up my ass crack" My monitor now has coffee on it.
    Glad your ok!
     
  12. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Bummer about your crash, sounds like you came out in reasonably good shape considering what might have happened by laying it down in a crit.
    Is there any evidence that the tubeless tires might have burped during the hard cornering leading to your slide? I'm pretty leery of road tubeless setups though I ran them on cross wheels for a season. The pressures are pretty high and any burping or loss of air could be a really bad deal and then adding fast and hard cornering into the mix and my confidence just isn't there with a relatively new bike technology.

    Maybe it was just dumb luck and slick pavement but even in the pouring rain it's pretty rare to low side and slide out in a crit corner. Sure clipping a pedal happens but you should know it that actually happened (which could still scuff up the rim after you actually slid out) and rolling a tubular happens but actually leaning past the point of grip is surprisingly rare.

    Good luck on the rehab,
    -Dave
     
  13. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Dave, After the crash I was certain I must have clipped a pedal, but then yesterday the same thing happened only not as severe and I am certain I did not clip my pedal. It was like I caught a rock while cornering although I went back to the corner and there was no rock or mark on the pavement from where my tire would have slid a rock. So IDK, yeah I am a bit skeptical now too.
     
  14. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    It's also quite possible you did clip a pedal in the race which would have skipped your rear wheel but as it came down the lateral force burped the tire and you lost contact. I've seen a similar thing with tubulars rolling a few times, they don't roll corner after corner till someone skips a pedal or hits a pavement ripple and the lateral force of landing that rear wheel that's coming around is too much for the glue job. I could easily see a similar thing happening with tubeless setups that maintain their seal fine under normal lateral loads but lose it under really hard cornering forces or when something like a pedal strike or pavement irregularity skips the rear wheel around.

    Personally I don't think road tubeless setups are ready for prime time. The rolling resistance data I've seen on them is pretty pitiful with stiffer casings they run to retain the air and I've still got doubts about the seal quality and burping under hard dynamic lateral loading. I'm sure others have had good luck but when it comes to things like crit cornering. I want 100% faith in my gear which means a bombproof glue job for tubulars or a conventional and reliable tube and tire clincher setup.

    Maybe I'm just full of distrust in new stuff being the luddite that I am, but I'd err on the conservative on something like this.

    -Dave
     
  15. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. Either clinchers, or tubulars with appropriate glue and technique. Both tried and true.
     
  16. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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  17. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    There was a discussion on a Tri forum a month or two ago that I watched and still find it hard to grasp. The question from the OP was what a typical well conditioned triathlete could hold % FTP for 100 miles if it were cycling only (not having to pace with swimming or running considered).

    There were a number of people that appeared to be experienced with training with power and competing that stated 90% of FTP for full distance. Many did say this was a hard task, but typical.

    But I find that hard to grasp. Maybe because I have yet to do much over 80% for anything over 4 hours, but maybe that is just because I am not well trained, but on the aspect of knowing how difficult it is to do 100% for 60 minutes how does one do 90% for 4 plus hours.

    Is it reasonable to output 90% for 100 miles?
    Ultimately the question from this particular newbie OP was to figure out how to pace his/her training for a 100 mile courses (Ironman type event).

    I guess in the end I just know for me personally I cannot do that type of pace at this time for that duration and even today at 80 miles (little over 4 hours I was under 80% at the end).
     
  18. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    IME, it would be very difficult but certainly not impossible for someone that trained very long SST efforts. I wouldn't expect many folks to be able to pull that out at the drop of a hat but as a target event on a good day with a lot of motivation and sufficient freshness I sure wouldn't call it impossible.

    The kind of focus alone that it would take to hold 90% of FTP for four or more hours would be very impressive but physically it would be really demanding as well. But there are folks (Brits mostly) that specialize in things like 50 mile and 100 mile individual time trials or 24 hour time trials and I'd expect quite a few of those folks could pull it off.

    -Dave
     
  19. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I suffer from at least a couple things right off the bat. My fitness and the focus aspect. To stay focused for 60 minutes is difficult enough, but I noticed a few times today that I drifted mentally.

    I wasn't trying to put this to a test today because I did not want a super high TSS. I was thinking about this post ride and how hard it was for me to stay at 80% and was thinking of those aspects of motivation, lack of fitness and lack of focus for the full duration. It is a tough task.
     
  20. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and one that's not all that necessary or at least all that often unless you're specializing in those kind of long solo timed events. After all it's great to be fit and be able to sustain long solid efforts but bike riding is still supposed to be fun so no need to beat yourself up all the time or sustain the focus for an entire ride.

    -Dave
     
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