It's killing me but..........



Bigpikle, How many you can do really depends on your current fitness and whether your FTP and consequently your "levels" are set correctly. Your body will let you know when you're ready for a rest - either sore legs and a need for more shut eye, or more subtle things like loss of appetite, lack of desire to go riding hard etc. JS, There's many a good workout that can be had in 90 minutes - whether it be a full on FTP effort for one hour with warm up/cool down to a couple of 20 minute efforts combined with 5 minute-ish VO2 max work and some 30 second springs done at full gas. While I agree with you that you can't really cheat your way past training, you can plan a really good training block with sessions of 90 minutes max. The key is keeping to the sessions and not adjusting them ad-hoc. :p If sessions start to feel easier then its time to stick to the planned session duration but either re-test to check for higher threshold and adjust accordingly or just bump the desired target up 10 watts and see how it goes. At some point you should really re-test. At the end if the day it all comes down to commitment, talent and desire. Most of us on here will never earn most of our money riding bikes and many will regularly never ride more than 100 miles. You certainly don't need a large block of 2 to 3 hour rides to do the odd 100 mile ride - especially if you have an FTP that's been enhanced by some really hard aerobic work. Sure, it might be mentally easier to do 3 hours mix of L2/L3 out on the road than smashing high end L3/lower L4 but both will get the job done for the average club guy. In some ways I feel that doing too much L2 work for the guy on limited time might not be the way to go unless there's a dedicated block of training for L4 later on. As simple as it sounds, if you want to go fast, at some point you really do have to go fast. Sometimes I think that this point is missed.
 
Originally Posted by swampy1970


There's many a good workout that can be had in 90 minutes - whether it be a full on FTP effort for one hour with warm up/cool down to a couple of 20 minute efforts combined with 5 minute-ish VO2 max work and some 30 second springs done at full gas.
Most of us on here will never earn most of our money riding bikes and many will regularly never ride more than 100 miles. You certainly don't need a large block of 2 to 3 hour rides to do the odd 100 mile ride - especially if you have an FTP that's been enhanced by some really hard aerobic work.

swampy,

I agree that a 90 minute session can work and this time of the year will definitely help in mixing it up cause man these workouts can drive you a bit crazy on the trainer no matter what is on the tube or music is playing.

As for your next statement, I have been asking that question over and over again for the last 5 years or so, meaning "Why am I putting in all this time?' again. Atleast BP, Felt and many others here have real reasons cause they actually ride with others. I just need to commute, stay thin and allow me to eat more. When I tell me wife how many hours and the intensity of the sessions she gives me that look....well you get the idea.

Oh swampy, I got to let you stop getting in my head. Stop thinking and back to the training plan....

-js
 
BP, I am in the midst of a block of ~60%. I am 9 days straight at the moment with ~22hrs. Actually 11/12 days with ~27hrs, as I rode Thanksgiving day and the Friday after, but took that Saturday off. All @ 60% FTP and my legs felt pretty dang shitty this a.m.!! I am going to see if eventually my fitness kinda catches up, but if the fatigue keeps building I may have to get some type of a recovery a bit earlier than planned.
 
jsirabella said:
swampy, I agree that a 90 minute session can work and this time of the year will definitely help in mixing it up cause man these workouts can drive you a bit crazy on the trainer no matter what is on the tube or music is playing.   As for your next statement, I have been asking that question over and over again for the last 5 years or so, meaning "Why am I putting in all this time?' again.  Atleast BP, Felt and many others here have real reasons cause they actually ride with others.  I just need to commute, stay thin and allow me to eat more.  When I tell me wife how many hours and the intensity of the sessions she gives me that look....well you get the idea. Oh swampy, I got to let you stop getting in my head.  Stop thinking and back to the training plan.... -js
Lol. Think back to the days you used to ride around Central Park. Those seemingly endless repeats up small hills trying to hold onto wheels. The goal there was to be able to ride comfortably with others on a course that challenged you. Raising FTP is always the key concern but you get to a point where increases plateau and you might want to change things up a little. A block of 6 to 9 weeks of high intensity work after a week off the L3/L4 grind stone often pulls up the power, especially the shorter sub 5 minute efforts up nicely in a short period of time. Tack on a month of short repetitive intervals from hell, say 1 minute on, 30 seconds off... 6 reps Then 10 30 second efforts full gas with 30 seconds rest then go ride L2 for 15 minutes then rinse and repeat and you'll start to get adapted to repetitive hard efforts. Once you've started to plateau in the shorter efforts, target the longer efforts again. Sometimes a change is as good as a rest. That's one of the benefits of planning out a complete year. Develop different systems and keep things fresh.
 
cheers guys - looks like lots of good work going on all over the place!

BG - good effort with those hours. I'm struggling to get 20 hours in per week in this weather and conditions so great work.

It seems that up to 2hrs is really a recovery ride in terms of fatigue recovery. A hard 3hr ride on Sunday left my legs sore yesterday but 2 hrs was OK and today I did a little over 2.5 hrs of good effort and the legs felt really good again. I'm not using the PM on this bike right now so its RPE to gauge effort but next week the Quarq will go on so it will be easier to accurately measure each ride again. I think I'll just persevere until I feel too tired to ride. I suspect weather or other commitments will intervene to create the occasional recovery day!!!

JS - your health and weight goals are just as valid as any other. Although you you perhaps dont have big events to target why not create a local ride or route and set a time goal to 'race' against?
 
bp, Thanks for the encouragement. Once the weather gets better I will use my commute as a goal and may sign up once again for the Gran Fondo again and see how I do. Cause of where I work now, using CP as a gauge will probably not be in the cards but who knows. Sounds you are going to make this time off work for you.

bg, I can not imagine putting that many hours in. My goal was to eventually reach 15 hours of quality time in the saddle. I hope I can do it early next year. Nice work.

swampy, Yeah the bane of my cycling life, CP. But I was happy with my results there not too long ago. It will be hard to get back into that again given my new working place but I do love the miles I am putting in now anyway when I can commute. I am hoping to finally focus this year on the shorter efforts meaning 10 minutes or less. I pretty much year in and year out was simply doing the 20 or greater intervals but this year I will move from the 20 or greater to harder 10, 5, 1 and 30 sec intervals. I may not need them so much in my current plans but I want to see how I develop as you indicated in your post with a proper change up.

Today was funny with the snow and me rushing to work before it started like 6 or so. I had a feeling I was going to have a tough go and I did but I am happy to say I got my 2:15 and did 3 intervals at 25 minutes each pretty much. I was a bit happier today cause on my third interval with 15 minutes left I just saw the cadence keep dropping till below 85 and was about to stop. I was able to somehow though get those last 15 minutes out of it. I went for about a minute or two below my goal of 205 but I did nail the average at the end and completed it.

Tomorrow I will take it down a smedge and maybe extend instead...lets see what the body and mind say.

-js
 
If I am not taking days off it is really not to difficult. I wake up @ 4:45, off the trainer by 7:30, to work by 9 and home by 6. Chill with the family, wake up and then repeat. Weekends I get 3-4hrs outside each day, all in the a.m. Now come January when I go to a 2x20 type routine the plan is Monday off, Tuesday-Thursday 2x20, Friday off, Saturday a bit of fun MTB maybe yoga, Sunday a long MTB or road ride (getting really long as I move toward my 100 mile MTB races). The idea is to just kill the volume and use the extra mental and physical energy towards nailing my efforts and my long Sunday rides.
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz

If I am not taking days off it is really not to difficult. I wake up @ 4:45, off the trainer by 7:30, to work by 9 and home by 6. Chill with the family, wake up and then repeat. Weekends I get 3-4hrs outside each day, all in the a.m.

Now come January when I go to a 2x20 type routine the plan is Monday off, Tuesday-Thursday 2x20, Friday off, Saturday a bit of fun MTB maybe yoga, Sunday a long MTB or road ride (getting really long as I move toward my 100 mile MTB races). The idea is to just kill the volume and use the extra mental and physical energy towards nailing my efforts and my long Sunday rides.
bg, we get up the same time but my trainer is in the factory so by the time I get there and have some food and get on, about 630-7 and off the trainer by 9 usually cause the folks start coming in about 9-930. Aren't you in Ohio? 3-4 hours outdoors? If you are by Crest I think, that area gets cold just like here this time of year. Again kudos, could not do 3-4 hours out here now.

This time of the year based upon on your post is L2/L3 than? Cause I imagine January it is all about the SST and higher?

-js
 
Js- yes last weekend it was in the teens when I hotly on the bike. Really if I dress right though I don't get cold at all.
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz

Js- yes last weekend it was in the teens when I hotly on the bike. Really if I dress right though I don't get cold at all.
In a word INSANE. I have noticed as I got back on the bike in November that the factory does not feel as cold but the teens for 3-4 hours!

-js
 
It was suppose to say "hopped on the bike". Anyway, I wear a thick under armor long sleeve, craft wind proof underwear, a skin suite, knee warmers, lined bib pants (no chamois), jersey, windbreaker jacket, gloves, wool socks, head band, toe warmers, and shoe covers. After spend 20 min dressing I am good to go!!
 
Originally Posted by bgoetz

It was suppose to say "hopped on the bike".

Anyway, I wear a thick under armor long sleeve, craft wind proof underwear, a skin suite, knee warmers, lined bib pants (no chamois), jersey, windbreaker jacket, gloves, wool socks, head band, toe warmers, and shoe covers. After spend 20 min dressing I am good to go!!
bg, how about the face? That was usually the challenge when I did venture out on those days. While I could wear something that could keep me a bit warm, I than could not breath properly.
 
Originally Posted by jsirabella

bg, how about the face? That was usually the challenge when I did venture out on those days. While I could wear something that could keep me a bit warm, I than could not breath properly.
When it gets below 30 (F) I have a couple of Balaclava's that I use, but like you mention finding the kind that works for breathing is a task. It took buying a few to find the kind that work for me. The best one that I like to use is a lightweight lycra with an open area on the nose and mouth. At times when it I am up to speed I will pull it up to cover the chin. I have another one that has a nose covering and the mouth is a fine mesh that does not restrict breathing from the mouth that much. I bought that one from a hiking store and not cycling. I have one that I like, but over a period of time it works its way down over my eyes and I have to stop to take off my helmet and readjust and another one that I like that covers my nose and face I cannot use because when I breathe the vapor goes up the mask and fogs my sunglasses. It's tough finding one that works well as an individual needs.

Another good mix that I use is a winter skull cap that covers the ears and use a neck gaiter that can be pulled up to cover the chin and mouth depending on how hard I am pushing the effort.

The craziest jacket that I have and I cannot tolerate using it is a Sugoi Firewall that I bought years ago. The temps have to stay below 30 or I will overheat in that jacket. It has like a rubbery feeling front and cloth back. I can feel the heat coming off my back. The same with wearing a Pearl Izumi Amphib bibs that have a thick wind front. I tend to overheat in those too.

40 to 30 degrees my typical is (and I still get a bit sweaty in this mix)

lightweight Pearl Izumi jacket that looks more like a jersey. It has a wind front and sleeves.
Long sleeve walmart baselayer that is like a very cheap version of Under Armor
Giordana Silverline bibs with pad that are not wind front. Once I get warmed up the air that does get through keeps my legs from overheating.
Specialized wind shell gloves with a wool glove liner
Mavic shoe covers, ankle high wool socks and long fleece socks
Specialized winter skull cap
small neck gaiter that I can pull up over the chin if needed

Below 30 and it is predicted to stay below I will pull out the Sugoi Firewall jacket and the Pearl Izumi Amphib bibs and use the balaclava.

Long frigid rides my toes and fingers are my problem areas and is certainly noticed the moment the post hot shower water hits those toes. :)
 
.....also search

balaclava with breath deflector

many of them will fall under the motorcycle category or shops, but it will help with breathing and redirecting the air away from fogging up glasses. I think might look through these again for my own needs.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider Long frigid rides my toes and fingers are my problem areas and is certainly noticed the moment the post hot shower water hits those toes. :)
For your feet, you might want to try these: http://www.amazon.com/Foot-Warmer-Insoles-Weber-Size/dp/B004FX0WCO/ref=sr_1_4?m=a14p4broacea7r&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1386857266&sr=1-4
They use this amazing material that I have been following for about 10 years: aerogel. They made a lightweight jacket out of this stuff and tested it on an Everest expedition a few years ago. It worked great with only one problem: the climbers wearing the aerogel jacket overheated and had to unzip it to cool down! If you do some searches, somebody probably makes gloves out of this stuff also. Most of the products made with this stuff are made for hunters that have to sit long hours in the cold.
 
Color me impressed, how you guys know this stuff. The best I had for this time of the year was this cannondale jacket that was amazingly warm and I had three layers of clothing that would work very well. The big issues were the hands, feet and face. I could keep the hands and feet pretty warm but once it was in the teens the face never held up and after an hour I could not keep the hands and feet warm. Also given how I dark it is in the morning and where I would ride, not the best idea also.

But back to training I had a strange day where I got on for my easy Thursday ride which usually means 2 hours straight at an easy pace but the last 30 minutes needed to still be a bit of a challenge to finish which was today a 180 avg for the ride. It was a great ride and I kept a nice cadence but when the ride was over my left knee was really achy. Much more than usual so I thought it was the high cadence which was . 95 the whole ride. Than suddenly by about 4pm it all jut stopped bother me like it never happen. Very strange....

Anyway the CTL is now at about 65 and the numbers for 2 hour each training are heading in the right direction right now.

-js
 
Originally Posted by RapDaddyo
For your feet, you might want to try these:
Thanks
I did some web searching for items using aerogel during lunch yesterday and will look some more.
 
RapDaddyo said:
For your feet, you might want to try these: http://www.amazon.com/Foot-Warmer-Insoles-Weber-Size/dp/B004FX0WCO/ref=sr_1_4?m=a14p4broacea7r&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1386857266&sr=1-4 They use this amazing material that I have been following for about 10 years: aerogel. They made a lightweight jacket out of this stuff and tested it on an Everest expedition a few years ago. It worked great with only one problem: the climbers wearing the aerogel jacket overheated and had to unzip it to cool down! If you do some searches, somebody probably makes gloves out of this stuff also. Most of the products made with this stuff are made for hunters that have to sit long hours in the cold.
It’s amazing stuff. A vacuum (not the cleaner) is one of the very few things that has lower thermal conductivity, and it’s got a density that, depending on the type of aerogel, can be less than that of air. It’s strong stuff, too. The Genesis spacecraft used aerogel to collect samples of the solar wind for return to Earth.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

Thanks
I did some web searching for items using aerogel during lunch yesterday and will look some more.
Here are a couple of links that may help. As I said in my earlier post, the sportsman apparel industry is on the leading edge of products with aerogel, for winter hunting and ice fishing.
http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-gear/clothing-apparel/Holey-Smoke.html
http://www.shivershield.com/
I'm thinking the Silver Shield insoles is the same product marketed by Weber, but the Weber product seem to be out of stock on Amazon.
 
Wow that stuff is cool!! Js- for whatever reason my face does not get cold, unless it is extremely cold outside. I snowboarded a lot back in the day, so maybe I killed off all the nerves from repeated exposure :). As for by training after 35hrs over a period of 15 days all at 60-65% I had to hit the brakes a bit. Had a 2.25hr trainer ride planned, but the legs started feeling pretty trashed at about 1hr and the effort took more concentration than it should have. So I backed things down to a comfortable mindless pace for 45min before I decided anymore time is just a waste of mental energy. So with a snow storm coming I am planning on 3.5 all indoors tomorrow. Hopefully Sunday I can get outside.