It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    So the "secret squirrel" mystery items more than make up for proven aero kit? Don't forget the aero hat! At least stuff an aero road lid on your noggin.
     


  2. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    felt - Tomorrow I think I may give my first try back to the gym with 30 (oh yes) 30 minutes of basically moving air meaning just the motions and if I am in the mood may put some weight on it. Muscle control especially now will make all the difference. I have to believe part of the reason for my attitude lately has to do lots with the weather. I do not even look anymore cause I know it will be below 20. It has been this way for about a month it feels like and I am just getting a bit angrier and tired every day. The walks at home with the wind chill is crazy at night. So to make myself feel a bit less moody I decided to just do 2 hour rides in the 180 area for the last 3 days. Kind of just to keep the CTL from falling too much.

    I never remember it being this bad. I heard things were crazy down in the Atlanta area and hope you, family and friends doing ok.

    rdo - There are times like this that I am happy I am not as smart as you cause I would set a goal like yours and think sure what they heck but once you put the numbers to it, I do not even want to touch it with a ten foot pole.

    -js
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    That's a good plan and you will thank yourself later for stepping into it really light and short. I missed a couple leg training days during the Christmas/New Year break and was on the bike instead. My first day back to training I went much lighter and 1/3 of my normal sets for legs and I was still extremely sore for a week solid.

    It has been crazy down here. It took me over 3 hours to get home in a 7 mile commute. I was one of the extremely lucky ones. My wife spent 5 hours for a 10 mile commute and abandoned her car two miles from home and walked the rest of the way. Hundreds of worse stories than this with people stuck in their cars on the interstate overnight in 10 degree temps.

    I missed training yesterday because I very cold walk to get my wife's abandoned car and by the time I got back home it was late, it killed my mood to train and my legs and hips were probably not going to rise to the level required.
     
  4. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    felt - Glad to hear you guys are ok. I am reading these articles and do not want to sound like the typical NorEaster kind of guy but what happen? Was it just panic and everyone just tried to leave at the same time? I figure get it from someone who is actually in the trenches.

    -js
     
  5. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I would suppose if we were looking at possible answers the best answer would be, "all of the above."

    I did not take it seriously at first because we rarely get snow even when it is predicted. I bet most were like me thinking it wasn't going to amount to anything. Before the hour was over the roads were covered and temperature was dropping so I bailed out just like everyone else in Atlanta. Most here are just not used to this kind of thing happening. And just about everyone drives to work instead of using the transit system or ride sharing program.

    Most of us are ill equipped so you have people that drive on well worn tires and cannot make it up a slight hill. Cars were sliding and spinning everywhere. I was fortunate that my CUV has good tires and I had no trouble, but was stuck behind all those that where.

    Plus our government has a fraction of the equipment compared to northern cities and they typically get it wrong with their game plan and timing.

    The picture below was taken within the first hour of snow coming down. I sat in that same spot for almost an hour because just around the corner ahead was a very small hill that random people could not get up. The white truck to the right was one of those that was not prepared with bad tires and no weight in the back he could not get up the hill. This is probably a tiny little snow event to the north, but for here it will go in the history books for the mayhem it caused.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    250 for 5hrs would be fun! I have had a few hilly 4.5-5hr efforts @ 310+ NP and a couple years ago did a 108 mile 9,000 feet ride in 5.75 total time 5.5 ride time (stopped to pee and grab H20) and my NP was around 290. Those were some hard days!! I have actually been analyzing a few of these rides to get an idea of what to expect for my target 100 mile MTB events. When Jeremiah Bishop won Mohican I think it was said he normalized around 4 watt/kg for 7hrs averaged around 3.3. To do something similar I would need to normalize around 310 for the duration average 255ish. IF and I stress IF I feel similar @ 7 as I do 5/5.5, I don't think this is out of my grasp, especially given that I have gotten/plan to get stronger. My concern is that there is this level of total glycogen exhaustion that I have not experienced yet. I intend to try to get in some race length efforts prior to the events, but given the nature of how hard these training rides will be I am waiting till the events are within a few weeks. I did read the Bishop used his PM to meter his effort as to avoid depletion, I won't have a PM and just based on how I ride and the first 30-40 miles it is going to be difficult for me to hold back. Swampy any advice on nutrition and what to maybe expect? I planned my normal 1000 calorie oatmeal PB breakfast, gels and blocks for quick energy, two bottles full strength cytomax to start (assuming the pace will not allow much eating the first part), 1 bottle weakened/1 bottle H20 after, then straight H20 thereafter. For solid food I was going to go with Payday bars, Cliff Bar, and maybe a Bannana if I use a feed bag.
     
  7. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    One of the reasons I set my NP target a bit on the high side (although it wouldn't be overstated today with 35mph winds) is because the purpose of the goal is to force myself to train harder. I could train for 225W and that would be sufficient in light winds, but then that would defeat my purpose. I'd rather have 250 and need 225 than have 225 and need 250.
     
  8. Sillyoldtwit

    Sillyoldtwit New Member

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  9. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I hope to get another summer of practice/training for the 100 mile goal. Even if I never make it my fitness has improved just going for the goal. I think I have the bike where I want it for a self-sustained 100 mile effort and I am pretty content with the type and timing of nutrition intake. After a week of indoor training I typically do this long course on Saturday without rest at about 0.75 IF as a training target. The engine just needs to get better.

    I sure hope we all (those of us that got crappy weather in 2013) get better weather in 2014. It's not starting off very good :(

    I got in some good practice for 2013, but with the amount of rain I ended up going shorter distance on a lot of weekends. This is what I got last year for that route.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    That snow sounds just like the UK when we get a light dusting! Carnage and chaos would be the best words to describe it! Been hammering the TT bike and turbo all week and today I actually thought I was enjoying it. 4x8 at 240w which is just a shade under the TR estimate of FTP on that bike indoors. Lots of L4 time and I can tell I'm not used to it as the time to recover is much longer than last year when I was banging out low L4 sessions day after day. I'm sure part of that is the muscles working in the TT aero position so I'm also hopeful that this kind of work will maximise adaptions. Had a little insurance windfall this week so blew it on a new Kickr trainer which should be here Tuesday. The thing that annoys me most on the turbo is that my target power level always seems to fall between gears so I really struggle to ride at my comfortable cadence. I'm hoping ERG mode will fix this and just allow me to ride as I feel like. I'll report in when it arrives - TR on the Kickr looks an awesome winter combo.
     
  11. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Those elevation gains are going to cut back your average speed, and of course wind on the day of your ride will come into play. For those reasons, you might want to set an NP goal rather than a time goal. In a way, that's what I am doing. My training goal is 5hrs at 250W NP, which should be more than enough for my time goal. But, I can tell you that if on the day of my ride I have to fight 25mph winds and come in >5hrs as a result but my NP is >=250W, I'll be thrilled regardless of the time.
     
  12. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Bp, I will be anticipating your feedback on the kickr. I've been reading all of the reviews as far back as when it was just a rumor. Then DC Rainmaker's review came out and now a lot of users talking about how much they like it.

    It will still be a while for me, but I am slowly getting geared up. Today I ordered a Suunto ANT+ adapter for my PC and will have a large screen monitor where I will probably run PerfPro application, use the iphone or get an ipad mini as the controller. I had to order a lighting to 30 pin adapter for the iphone ANT+ adapter as well. But I am trying to get all the smaller items purchased now so it won't sting as much later. Plus I can use all of those items now with my current indoor setup.

    The way I train and the goals that I have I will probably just use the erg mode rather than custom workouts.
     
  13. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I agree and the reason why is that 90% of the time I do this route the winds come up from the south from the Gulf of Mexico. My route starts south and goes north. Typically what happens is the early morning hours there air is calm, but as the hours progress the wind picks up.

    So I have no push from a tailwind going north, but end up with sustained headwind coming back. By that point I am getting exhausted with my current fitness because I am lacking that power you are talking about to finish out the effort. Plus the road tilts upward in the last 6 miles. Between the wind and road gradient it becomes a hard task for me. Maybe not for someone who is Cat 3 or higher, but for me it is hard.

    On a couple of occasions the wind started coming down from the north and I am fresh enough to push against it and then fly on the way back with a good tailwind, but that rarely happens and to time it for favorable conditions is too hard to predict. I agree that it is better all around to have the fitness above the task so that I can handle the harder situation.
     
  14. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    I just started using TR on rollers. I'm not too familiar with the Kickr. What does it do from a TR standpoint that rollers don't? Thx!
     
  15. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    The Kickr has a built in power meter and has an ERG mode so it controls resistance electronically. When you plug a workout into TR then it controls the Kickr resistance so that you are always working at the power called for by the workout. If your cadence slows or increases then it changes the resistance to keep the W the same.

    http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2013/03/fitness-trainer-review.html

    Just had an email to say its coming Monday now - even better :D
     
  16. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    Got it. Now that is pretty cool! Hmm...one thing I like about the rollers is the more realistic road feel however vs. the bike being held perfectly upright. I will do some research. Definitely let us know what you think. Thanks
     
  17. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    The Kickr looks interesting as a cheaper ergometer (vs the CompuTrainer). The Ant+, Bluetooth and open software interface architecture opens up a lot of possibilities for the future. Plus, it doesn't eat tires for breakfast. And $1,100 is easier to justify than $1,600. Here's an interesting comparison between the Kickr and CT: http://ggtri.wordpress.com/stuff/wahoo-kickr-worth-the-upgrade-over-a-computrainer/
     
  18. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    "The engine needs to get better." Remember, that means you need a bigger engine and a bigger tank. The miles of L2 will get the latter but remember to get some balanced L3, 4 and 5 in. You only really need to train regularly a couple of times a week at around the 3 to 4 hour mark and use the other few sessions for some shorter intervals. I found it useful to make sure on the longer rides that you still had enough in the legs for the last hour to put some hard digs in. Not sure of what time you have available during the summer months and what the local clubs offer but mid week 10 mile TT's are a great source of motivation. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you managed to get your best 20 minute average power the first time you put on a number. Not only is it fun to race but the adrenaline "inverts" the start process - at home it's hard to get upto the required power, in a TT with a number on your back it's hard to keep the power down.
     
  19. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    I still love the rollers indoors and ride them all winter long last year but its really hard to ride the TT bike in the aero position on rollers - before you even think about adding intensity. Having the Kickr will mean j can keep the summer bike with turbo tyres on it on the rollers and just swap between the 2 rigs as needed.
     
  20. maxroadrash

    maxroadrash New Member

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    You need turbo tires on the rollers?
     
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