It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    Got it. Very cool. Thanks!
     


  2. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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  3. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    Me too! That thread on ST was 2 pages of pretty much nothing but positive reviews...
     
  4. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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  5. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    BP (or anyone else that knows the answer) - one more question on the Kickr...I have a power meter on my indoor training bike but I don't trust the data from it (long story). Is it possible for my Garmin 500 to pick up the power data straight from the Kickr? That would be cool if so. Thanks
     
  6. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    I think so as its Ant+ so should pair with it. You wont be able to control the resistance with the Garmin though I think - you'll need the Wahoo app on something or one of the 3rd party programmes like TR.

    2nd workout yesterday and things were slightly different. The Quarq was UNDER reading compared to the Kickr this time. I had read it takes a few rides for everything to bed in so hopefully this is just part of that. The surprise is how variable the power numbers are from the Quarq. The Kickr doesnt change by more than +/- 1 watt but the Quarq seems to fluctuate +/-10w although the resistance on the pedals doesnt seem to feel like its changing.

    Will be doing an over/under today so will see how it responds to changes in effort levels during sessions....
     
  7. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    Training for Battenkill somewhat derailed. Had something go awry with a colonoscopy and now sitting in a hospital bed with nothing but IV fluid for last couple days. Certainly don't think I'll be making today's scheduled 4x5min @ 120%FTP. On the upside (aside from dropping another kg) I have been allowed a liquid breakfast this morning of chicken broth, juice, and jello and may be getting released as early as this eve with a course of antibiotics, and have been given my doctors blessing on resuming training this weekend. Being off the bike this long after seeing such steady gains on H. Allen's plan has been killing me! Luckily I didn't choose Option A on Monday night (surgery) which would have had me off the bike for at least a month or two. Hope everyone's been getting in some decent efforts.
     
  8. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    What Bp said is what I understand as well. In fact I had been thinking if I had the Kickr what direction would I go because the trainer has so much flexibility to it with having both ANT+ and Bluetooth transmitters.

    Since I use WKO+ to track my training I think I would use the Garmin Edge to record the training and use either my iphone or buy an ipad to control the resistance. With my eyes being bad the last couple of years I think I would rather get a larger screen. Probably at first I will just use my iphone 5s to control it. Why did I mention the 5s? Because the Kickr works with Bluetooth 4.0. For iphones this goes from 4s and newer. So be careful if you were to shop around for something used to use as a controller.

    Today I am supposed to be getting a Suunto Movestick USB ANT+ adapter shipped today that I can potentially use a PC with a large monitor that sits just a few feet from the bike. That monitor is large enough for me to see clearly so I can use something like Perfpro or TR to control the unit, but I would have to get off the bike and I can see that getting old quickly. I could get a stand and set my laptop in arms reach as another option. Another note, and I am not sure if this is correct, but I have read that some people using Android/Bluetooth with the Kickr are having some issues so check up on that if you have that option.

    In the same package that I am supposed to get today is a Wahoo ANT+ adapter for my phone and I also had to get a 30 pin to lighting adapter so that I could plug it into the phone. I wanted to get this to communicate with my Quarq using Qalvin app to check slope, but this will also allow me to use either Bluetooth or ANT+. Why would I mention this? Because it is possible to buy a used older iphone for a whole lot less and not have a contract with the phone company, plug in the ANT+ adapter and use ANT+ to communicate or control the Kickr.

    That is the cool thing with so much flexibility having both ANT+ and Bluetooth.

    I also think we have just begun to see the amount of apps and applications that can be used with this trainer.

    Unfortunately for me, in some ways, is that I have eMotion rollers that were expensive. My wife would be beyond pissed if I got another trainer at this time. Especially since my KK fluid trainer has become a glorified bike stand sitting next to the rollers. :)

    I do love the rollers though and feel like I am getting things done, but I have a feeling I could refine my efforts a bit. I find that I have to hold toward the top of L4 for an interval because I cannot seem to hold W as close as I could being locked into a trainer. Having to focus a little on balance and the carriage moving a little my output varies more. Mainly I think it is just my inability to hold a good a steady cadence, but I wanted to blame it on something else. :)
     
  9. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Dan, sure hate to hear that and I hope it is nothing super serious. Sitting in a hospital bed can never be good. I hope you are okay and wish you a speedy recovery.
     
  10. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Felt.
     
  11. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I have had an interesting few days and it just goes to show me once again that you never know what you can do based on those initial feelings when you start a training session or just out for a ride. How many times have we gone out thinking this is going to be a terrible day. Sometimes it is and sometimes maybe we do need to shut it down for the day and try again another day. But sometimes we can stick with it and become very surprised by the end result.

    My time line over the past few days.
    Saturday - Goal, take the Felt (TT) out for a longish ride (65 miles) and get some time in the aero position. I felt terrible the entire ride. My legs were just dead and maybe due to having some good indoor intervals last week.

    Sunday - Goal, take the road bike out for to a popular 31 mile loop and just ride. I ended up setting a PR and now rank 9th on the Strava leaderboard and just two minutes off my former boss's time on that loop. More on this later.

    Monday - Goal, train legs early as usual. My legs and hips were hurting so bad that I barely slept through Sunday night, felt terrible training legs yet made it though it. Through the day things seemed to get worse and I was feeling sick, but I started loading up more on protein and vitamin packs, HMB as a little more hope that it would help me get out the recovery hole.

    Tuesday - Goal, 4x10 in L4. I thought there would be no way I could get into L4. I was amazed how much better I felt when I woke up Tuesday morning and my legs felt a whole lot better. Tuesday evening the 1st 10 minutes finished at 100% FTP. Each interval after dropped a little more with the last 10 minute averaging at 90% FTP. The entire session including warm up, cool down and in between rest averaged 90% FTP.

    About the Strava PR
    I have never taken the Strava segment thing very serious and still do not, but I was intrigued that I set a PR on this route as bad as I felt and I seemed to really struggle against the headwinds and my legs were really stinging on the sharp rolling hills. I wanted to see how I ranked on this popular loop against others and in all age groups including men and women I was 53 out of 267. In my age group I was 9 out of 60, but the kicker here was that my former boss who races there is a two minute difference. Because it is him I feel compelled now to become one of these Strava nuts and see if I can surpass my old boss and knock him down a notch. All in good Strava fun of course [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    I just read your bit on the rollers Felt. If you think it's tricky holding steady L4 on the emotions you should see how it is after the mental fog of a few L5 VO2 ints at 100+ rpm. I imagine though you are doing some of these efforts on the TT rig and I could see how being able to zone out focusing on the effort could be more inviting. I kinda like the thrill of keeping the bike on the rollers at high cadence - last week managed somewhere around 37mph on setting 1 in the 50x12! Good job on the strava work btw
     
  13. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    Quote: Unfortunately for me, in some ways, is that I have eMotion rollers that were expensive. My wife would be beyond pissed if I got another trainer at this time. Especially since my KK fluid trainer has become a glorified bike stand sitting next to the rollers. :)

    I do love the rollers though and feel like I am getting things done, but I have a feeling I could refine my efforts a bit. I find that I have to hold toward the top of L4 for an interval because I cannot seem to hold W as close as I could being locked into a trainer. Having to focus a little on balance and the carriage moving a little my output varies more. Mainly I think it is just my inability to hold a good a steady cadence, but I wanted to blame it on something else. :)


    Wow...this is right out of my life. I just pulled the trigger on the KICKR for pretty much the exact reasons you cite above. Couldn't hold back any longer :) But I too have eMotion rollers and yes, those babies weren't cheap. While my wife is really cool, I might have some explaining to do then the KICKR shows up. Truth is, I mentioned it to here before so I don't think she will be too surprised. I also have the KK trainer which hasn't gotten used in a year because I enjoy the rollers so much more. While I should probably sell the KK, I think I will keep the rollers...they're just really cool and quite fun.
     
  14. jcm01

    jcm01 New Member

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    Ok, thanks. Also, this is from the DC Rainmaker review which again, seems like the answer is yes. Bummer about the cadence though...

    "The KICKR is unique in that it’s the only trainer on the market today that is fully Bluetooth and ANT+ enabled. The unit contains the necessary hardware for communication to existing ANT+ devices (such as the Garmin Edge 500 or Forerunners), as well as Bluetooth Smart support for phone and tablet based devices.

    Bluetooth Smart integration requires the use of a Bluetooth 4.0 device. Which means you have have an iPhone 4s or newer, or a 3rd generation iPad or newer. Additionally, at this stage the only Bluetooth Smart device support for these device profiles is on the Apple platform.
    From the ANT+ side, the unit uses the ANT+ Bike Power Meter device profile to broadcast your current power and speed. This means it’s compatible with all current ANT+ power meter head units. For example, the GarminFR310XT/FR910XT/Edge 500/Edge 510/Edge 705/Edge 800/Edge 810, all CycleOps Joule units and Joule GPS,Timex Global Trainer, Magellan Switch, and countless other apps. It will not at this time broadcast cadence though, so you’ll need to add an ANT+ cadence meter into the mix in order to get that on an ANT+ enabled device."
     
  15. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Thanks

    Wow!
    The only time I came close to hitting 37 on the eMotion rollers was a very short standing sprint just trying them out. The sprint went well, but not so much when I sat down. I had the roller back end too close the wall and the back wheel spinning that fast almost went through the wall. Fortunately there happened to be a thick piece of plastic leaning against the wall that took the brunt of the impact and it burned a small groove into the plastic. [​IMG] Needless to say I have not tried doing a standing sprint that intense again inside.
     
  16. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    Danfoz - hope you make a speedy recovery and nothing serious comes from it.

    Felt/JMC - you certainly can use the basic Wahoo Fitness app to control the Kickr but I think doing this really misses much of the value. It is good in that you can really quickly and easily change the ERG power levels as long as the iPhone/iPad is in reach but doing it all manually at the start/end of each interval is going to get old really quick and realistically it wont work well if doing any short intervals like 30/30's where you are toast at the end. You REALLY want TR or a similar programme to do the ERG control and Felt, you can run it all from your pc easily enough with the Ant+ stick. You dont need to get up once you start a TR session - just press play, get on the bike and ride and it will automatically stop at the end. TR has a clever system where you can set it to stop/start when you pedal or stop, but that seems to be disabled when using ERG mode. It really is VERY easy.

    I love my rollers and they will get more use but while my TT bike is the focus I will use the Kickr. I quite enjoy threshold on the rollers as I need to concentrate but forget it with VO2 work or on the TT bike....

    Felt - I know what you mean about never knowing in a workout. A few times recently I've climbed on the bike and not been up for it but ended up doing a good session.
     
  17. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    Thanks BP, am home now feeling a lot better still some tightness in the chest from air in the upper thoracic cavity which will take a few more days to fully dissapate that likely dissected upward moving beyond the diaphragm via fascial planes after escaping from a pinprick hole on the colon small enough to allow air to escape, but not large enough to allow fluid to escape as confirmed by the ct scan. With antibiotics my body should take care of the healing process without the surgery needed to repair a larger perforation. The doctors apparently didn't get my Gore Tex analogy ;P

    @Felt, lol I bet! Accidents on rollers can end up catastrophically. That was actually somewhat of a restricted run as I didn't want to poop myself out for the VO2 workout that followed, and done while seated. Ironically I would definitely not feel safe doing that type of effort outta the saddle on the emotions which I restrict to bigger gear, hill climbing type cadences. I'll be trying something more ambitious in the neighborhood of 150rpm (also seated) to be captured on video once I'm 100% (in a much smaller gear of course). I run my saddle slightly lower on the recommended range for my inseam (32.5"), a full 1.5cm lower than the Lemond/Guimard .883xinseam formula, spinning 170mm crank arms... probably more of a match sprinters setup. I was a big fan of Mark Gorski entering the sport as a junior and my build seems better suited to sprinting than TT'ing anyway. I couldn't fathom a similar feat on 172.5's, not an ice cubes chance in hell. On the longer crank arms I feel like a fish out of water riding a foreign entity that doesn't understand the language I'm speaking ;)
     
  18. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    hey guys,

    I have not posted in a while and need to catch up on this thread but wanted to post cause I have learned quite a bit in the last week. First I went to the gym and man it just felt wrong. I knew it would feel strange but it felt worse than strange where I knew I needed to re-think.

    a) Energy levels were way too low and I knew where it was coming from. Every time I start a new production I get back on the energy drink kick and this time around it was the kickstarts. They were killing me.

    b) I really needed to get back to my core exercises that help the back.

    c) I need to stop the crap I have been eating lately. While not gaining weight I felt like crap.

    So I wiped out all the energy drinks and started with black teas again, instead of the gym doing my core exercises in my office after the bike and threw out all the crap. I got back on the bike and up to an 82 CTL and one day a week I try and do a really hard hour or more depending how far the body can take it and this Friday I pretty much hit my ftp of 240. Got to cleanse the body and the mind. One thing I can not cleanse from the mind is how long his cold has been here in NYC. I mean it is 30 today and it is probably the warmest day we have had. It does get cold but usually we get a day here and there of above 40 but this winter has been crazy cold for so long. I have used my thermals so often that they can probably go to work and do it without me needed.


    Hope you folks are having good rides out there...I have to thread.
    -js

    Tomorrow hoping to have an epic 2.5 - 3 hour session on the trainer with a Night of the Demons marathon. Finally the first one came out on BD by Shout Factory and avail on VOD by amazon. Should be a blast....
     
  19. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    js, sounds like you are getting focused in on the training refinements. The weight gain during the holidays was one for me too and though I did not gain a lot it is now difficult to get those few pounds back off. It is deceiving while training inside because watts/kg is not perceived sitting on a trainer or rollers compared to actually hauling that baggage up a hill. Once I am outside and the road tilts upward I am feeling it. I have dropped a couple pounds by tightening up my calorie intake and careful not to take in too much carbs post training, which is tempting. I am also trying to do my training with less carbs. Except for my long ride yesterday where I made sure I had enough fuel to finish.

    Another thing I now have to work on is endurance. Like you, because of the weather I have not been doing my long route and on a number of the past weekends had to train inside. My indoor training has been short intense intervals so last weekend on a 65 mile route on the TT bike I really struggled. Yesterday was a step in the right direction and 70 miles felt just a touch better, but I can tell my fitness for longer course is down.

    I am with you and probably multitudes of other cyclist hoping the weather improves. I need to get caught up to my fitness of last September and then hopefully improve. Big kudo to Bgoetz for keeping up the endurance training even when the weather was terrible.
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Well I am not sure how long he will let is stand, but I bumped my former boss out of his spot on the 31 mile course today. I went up into 5th spot out of 60 guys for a solo effort in my age group and he went down to the 8th spot. :)

    I never really had fun with the competitive side of Strava until I saw his name on the list last weekend. :) Now to move on to my focus of the long course.

    The short intense work inside sure helped hammer through the rolling hills and there were a lot of burned matches today, but my focus on the 100 mile time goal is my priority.
     
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