It's killing me but..........



You have to get it from support .. Now I have to search for it myself and figure out why it did not backup to my new phone
 
Originally Posted by spdntrxi

You have to get it from support ..

Now I have to search for it myself and figure out why it did not backup to my new phone
OK, I've contacted support. Will let everyone know what I find out.
 
One thing that I always wondered, especially given how much improvement I saw from L5 and 6, was why shouldn't I do this during winter too? If I stop racing in Oct and the next race was at the end of Feb, isn't that way too long to neglect those efforts that get you seeing double during the first few races? Do we really need a good chunk of that ~16 weeks to be done at lower intensity? I started thinking about this again recently mainly as a way to escape the boredom of L3 and L4 on the trainer and because a couple of months doing L5 efforts always helped me to relax on the bike at threshold efforts. Maybe more "kitchen sink" training is required... :)
 
Originally Posted by swampy1970

One thing that I always wondered, especially given how much improvement I saw from L5 and 6, was why shouldn't I do this during winter too? If I stop racing in Oct and the next race was at the end of Feb, isn't that way too long to neglect those efforts that get you seeing double during the first few races? Do we really need a good chunk of that ~16 weeks to be done at lower intensity?

I started thinking about this again recently mainly as a way to escape the boredom of L3 and L4 on the trainer and because a couple of months doing L5 efforts always helped me to relax on the bike at threshold efforts. Maybe more "kitchen sink" training is required... :)
I think the traditional argument against year round L5/6 work is based on 2 things:

1. it will cause burn out - its pretty physically demanding and might potentially cause hormonal issues etc leading to chronic fatigue

2. it seems to bring fitness on pretty quick so doesnt need to be used all the time if you have some specific events you want to target

I quite like the idea of dosing some L5 work every 7-10 days to keep things bubbling along in the winter. As you say, its got to be good for variety on the turbo or rollers and when combined with lower intensity work should build some great base fitness.
 
swampy, with a FTP as low as mine I need to work to raise it in the winter months. :) I need to figure out if my Kickr is near my Quarq like I think or not. I may not being doing L5 like I think I am, but based on how tough it is to get to the end of each interval I think I am pretty close.

Hopefully Brian and others can report back on getting the app from Wahoo.

Meanwhile I think for me since I do most of my training inside and my two outdoor rides are just endurance level, I may be better off just doing my FTP test on the Kickr and base my training off that number. I am pretty sure the Kickr is consistent day to day within a percent or two. The room temperature stays about the same and I use the same warm up and spindown procedure for each session.
 
my Kickr has been consistent since day 1 vs my Quarq. A few W different but the same every session.
 
Bigpikle said:
I think the traditional argument against year round L5/6 work is based on 2 things: 1. it will cause burn out - its pretty physically demanding and might potentially cause hormonal issues etc leading to chronic fatigue 2. it seems to bring fitness on pretty quick so doesnt need to be used all the time if you have some specific events you want to target I quite like the idea of dosing some L5 work every 7-10 days to keep things bubbling along in the winter. As you say, its got to be good for variety on the turbo or rollers and when combined with lower intensity work should build some great base fitness.
Burnout - I guess it all depends on how you do it, how you recover and how often. I used to get somewhat annoyed at "having" to take some time off the bike because it was "the thing to do" after the hillclimb season and I wanted to stomp the pedals on the hills when out on Saturday and Sunday rides in the winter. During the last winter or two that I raced I found things better when the Peter Keen/Boardman way of doing things was tried - lots of harder L2 and 3, but I still wanted to do some shorter/harder efforts but my coach would always give me the "raised eyebrow of distain" when he downloaded the data from the Sports Tester and saw the errant deviation in heart rate. There's only so many times you can honestly say "I was being chased by a dog" - at 27mph for 8 minutes. Fit dog... ;)
 
Felt_Rider said:
swampy, with a FTP as low as mine I need to work to raise it in the winter months. :) I need to figure out if my Kickr is near my Quarq like I think or not. I may not being doing L5 like I think I am, but based on how tough it is to get to the end of each interval I think I am pretty close. Hopefully Brian and others can report back on getting the app from Wahoo. Meanwhile I think for me since I do most of my training inside and my two outdoor rides are just endurance level, I may be better off just doing my FTP test on the Kickr and base my training off that number. I am pretty sure the Kickr is consistent day to day within a percent or two. The room temperature stays about the same and I use the same warm up and spindown procedure for each session.
At least your threshold power is functional. I have an NFTP (Non-functional threshold power) :p Went out for a ride on Saturday just to roll the gears over for a couple of hours and rack some KM's up for the Merckx challenge on Strava and managed 9 miles. Made the rookie mistake (I did this twice before - once in the 80s and once in the 90s) of doing a ton of hamstring and glute stretches before out. So, when I stopped and bent over slightly to adjust my stem, my Psoas on both sides decided to revolt and basically cramped causing massive back pain.... Two nights on the couch and I'm finally able to walk around semi-caveman style. Now that I'm able to kneel down and stretch out the errant hip flexors, things are getting better fairly quickly. ****. Lol.
 
swampy1970 said:
At least your threshold power is functional. I have an NFTP (Non-functional threshold power) :p Went out for a ride on Saturday just to roll the gears over for a couple of hours and rack some KM's up for the Merckx challenge on Strava and managed 9 miles. Made the rookie mistake (I did this twice before - once in the 80s and once in the 90s) of doing a ton of hamstring and glute stretches before out. So, when I stopped and bent over slightly to adjust my stem, my Psoas on both sides decided to revolt and basically cramped causing massive back pain.... Two nights on the couch and I'm finally able to walk around semi-caveman style. Now that I'm able to kneel down and stretch out the errant hip flexors, things are getting better fairly quickly. ****. Lol.
According to the relevant research, prior to any form of strenuous exercise, one should only do dynamic stretching. Static stretching can and very often does result in injury. Actually, in 25 years of competitive road running/cross country racing, I confess to not once ever warming up and fortunately never suffering an injury. Mind you, I put this down to inheriting my father's genes more so than luck. With all that running (3 years karate training and Olympic lifting) plus cycling ever since, touch wood, my knees are as good as new. And for all sceptics out there, mark my words, I will exceed a 300 watts FTP again some time next year. Not before my 73 b'day though, unless I experience a quantum leap. :big-smile: Tyson
1.jpg
 
Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit

And for all sceptics out there, mark my words, I will exceed a 300 watts FTP again some time next year. Not before my 73 b'day though, unless I experience a quantum leap.
big-smile.png


Tyson

I'll be happy with 300w by my 45th birthday next year!
 
Originally Posted by Sillyoldtwit


According to the relevant research, prior to any form of strenuous exercise, one should only do dynamic stretching. Static stretching can and very often does result in injury. Actually, in 25 years of competitive road running/cross country racing, I confess to not once ever warming up and fortunately never suffering an injury. Mind you, I put this down to inheriting my father's genes more so than luck.
With all that running (3 years karate training and Olympic lifting) plus cycling ever since, touch wood, my knees are as good as new.
And for all sceptics out there, mark my words, I will exceed a 300 watts FTP again some time next year. Not before my 73 b'day though, unless I experience a quantum leap.
big-smile.png


Tyson

I know, I know... Static stretching is the Devil personified. Like I said, rookie mistake ;)

I have an issue with my right leg and range of motion. Even with 145mm cranks, a more forward than 'normal' position and a "not remotely aero" position at that, I have an issue with getting the cranks over top dead center, so like a newbie I stretched and paid for it... I should have stretched both the glutes/hamstrings and quads/hip flexors - I only did the former.

I've been dealing with this for more than a couple of years but it took sitting on an ISM saddle to figure out that my pelvis was doing wonky things on the bike to compensate.

After some fun (I say that with more than a hint of sarcasm) and gentle stretching, I'm able to stand up like a human being... Well, if I sit down for more than 10 minutes it takes a little while to fully unfurl myself to stand straight. LOL. It'll get better. Hopefully.

It's funny how different people experience different problems in search of the same goal. I know that 300 watts is readily attainable if I can stay riding the bike long enough and not hurt my back. If I work on that I'll get there...
 
Too much time on my hands to look at past training records and think about what I want to do but at least I can mostly get out of a chair without feeling that quick stabbing pain to the lower back or feeling like I just need to stand up and wait a couple of minutes before the muscles at the front on my hip "unfurl" and allow me to stand up straight.

I need to get my back issues and the "range of motion" issues with my right leg taken care of so I can get back on the Cannondale. I miss all the really hilly stuff that a 77 degree seat angled semi aero bike isn't really the best at. I need to get comfy on the bike and then I need to think about power. The latter will take care of itself in due course. Most of my woes would likely be taken care of with bike specific core work - just don't expect me to take up Pilates and balancing on a beefed up beach ball. :p
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider
For those who kept urging me to do L5 things changed a bit this month
will be interesting to see how this turns out for you. I suspect it will have a big impact, although am wondering if this is the best time of year/season to hit it that hard?
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider
For those who kept urging me to do L5 things changed a bit this month
When I look at your data, I am more struck by the change in mix between L1-L3 and L4+. The difference is striking. I think that difference is much more important than the increase in L5 time relative to total L4-L7 time. I have always felt that total L4-L7 time is more important than the distribution of L4-L7. And, your 2014 training is vastly higher quality than 2013. You set out at the beginning of the year to change your training time distribution to L4+ and you have succeeded. Well done!
 
Originally Posted by Bigpikle
will be interesting to see how this turns out for you. I suspect it will have a big impact, although am wondering if this is the best time of year/season to hit it that hard?
I believe you are right. I want to give this a try while the motivation is still high.

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo
Well done!
Thanks
I owe a lot to your tips and helping me look at this refinement in a way that motivated the goal. I really believe this refinement has been a positive step. I also look at encroaching into L5 in the same way you suggested where the dividing line is L4+. So I look at being in L4 and L5 as meeting the same goal. August was a down month due to life, but I was able to make a comeback in September.
 
Originally Posted by Bigpikle
will be interesting to see how this turns out for you. I suspect it will have a big impact, although am wondering if this is the best time of year/season to hit it that hard?
BP, I am trying to figure this out or should I say I am trying to figure me out :)

It is weird that I am driven/highly motivated and yet I don't have hardened goals other than for 2014 to fill out that L4 column on my spreadsheet. I don't have seasons or event targets. I rarely ride with anyone these days and I have pretty much been dropped off of group ride email lists. I find it hard to explain what I am really doing other than I like training and being fit.

As light targets I am interested in seeing if I can drive up and set new PB's in 5min, 10 min, 20min, 30min marks and soon I hope to start adding in 60min PB's. I still have a light interest in doing a sub 5 hour solo someday, but I know I really need to get my fitness up much higher to achieve that target. There was one comment made by Smyrka in a post to someone this year when she said, "fast then far" as her approach in the training season. That statement has been stuck in my head for a number of months.

In the past few weeks I've had to bump up my FTP and I may need to bump it up again pretty soon. I set another PB last week for the 5, 10 and 20min and the 10min was real surprising to me. I will increase the %FTP by a couple more points in TrainerRoad this week and keep doing that until I fail to hit the marks. I will then sit and train with those markers until I see another bump. Without having seasons it doesn't matter to me if I peak in January and go into a slump in the spring. Since I don't ride with anyone and I typically target L2 when riding outside there is nothing disappointing. Kind of crazy that I am setting new PB's in Strava segments at or near L2 these days.

It's pretty cool to be a recreational club type cyclists and do a 2 x 20 mile in just a hair over 2 hours and be mostly in my L2 and a bit into L3. It seems to frustrate some of the local triathletes to see a moose on a TT bike cruise by. :)

But in general I have no idea what I am doing (goal wise) or why I am doing it (why am I pushing it when I don't have a goal) :)
 
There's nothing wrong with that mindset and approach - if you're enjoying the journey just for the journey then why not?

The problem I sometimes find with a very goal focused approach is what to do when you achieve it? The Alps is a good case in point for me, as I got back 2 weeks ago and can honestly say I achieved every goal I had for that event and then some. Admittedly I came home with a bit of a nasty bug that knocked me for six for 2 weeks, but even so the problem for me now is what next and why get out on the bike? Luckily I already signed up for a week of classic Vuelta climbs in the Picos, but thats not until Oct 2015. Now I need to find some other goals to motivate me through autumn and winter.... Right now the focus is to hit 12,000km this year which means another 3000km before Xmas. Hopefully that will get me out there and also fit well with my goals for next year and I'll enjoy the journey as well.

I'm quite looking forward to the time I just ride for the social side and to enjoy weekend club rides to the coffee shop :D
 
Bp, I would still be laying on my near deathbed if I had done all the training you did leading up to your peak events and then that huge week climbing. Wow!! This was an epic year for you. I'd probably need a month off just to return to normal after that kind of week.
 
Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

BP, I am trying to figure this out or should I say I am trying to figure me out :)

It is weird that I am driven/highly motivated and yet I don't have hardened goals other than for 2014 to fill out that L4 column on my spreadsheet. I don't have seasons or event targets. I rarely ride with anyone these days and I have pretty much been dropped off of group ride email lists. I find it hard to explain what I am really doing other than I like training and being fit.

As light targets I am interested in seeing if I can drive up and set new PB's in 5min, 10 min, 20min, 30min marks and soon I hope to start adding in 60min PB's. I still have a light interest in doing a sub 5 hour solo someday, but I know I really need to get my fitness up much higher to achieve that target. There was one comment made by Smyrka in a post to someone this year when she said, "fast then far" as her approach in the training season. That statement has been stuck in my head for a number of months.

In the past few weeks I've had to bump up my FTP and I may need to bump it up again pretty soon. I set another PB last week for the 5, 10 and 20min and the 10min was real surprising to me. I will increase the %FTP by a couple more points in TrainerRoad this week and keep doing that until I fail to hit the marks. I will then sit and train with those markers until I see another bump. Without having seasons it doesn't matter to me if I peak in January and go into a slump in the spring. Since I don't ride with anyone and I typically target L2 when riding outside there is nothing disappointing. Kind of crazy that I am setting new PB's in Strava segments at or near L2 these days.

It's pretty cool to be a recreational club type cyclists and do a 2 x 20 mile in just a hair over 2 hours and be mostly in my L2 and a bit into L3. It seems to frustrate some of the local triathletes to see a moose on a TT bike cruise by. :)

But in general I have no idea what I am doing (goal wise) or why I am doing it (why am I pushing it when I don't have a goal) :)
Make your carrot the 5 hour century and find a 100 TT to enter. Get a set of disk covers for the rear FLO60's you have, a skinsuit and good aero helmet and you'll ace it.

"Fast then far." For most I'd agree that this statement is correct. I always found it much harder to train speed than distance. It's a double edged sword - you need the L2 and 3 and tons of it in order for the L4, 5 and 6 to really work and "stick" but when you do ramp up the intensity, especially the longer L5 efforts, I always found that the reason for training just fell into place. I can't say you find nirvana but after a ton of L5 and 6 you do fly up the hills faster, smash a bigger gear on the flat and recover from efforts faster. Personally, as long as you have the base training to support it, I don't see any downsides at all - even for 100 mile TT events.

Just a thought for all to ponder, if you don't have a racing reason as such, why not reverse the training season - do the intervals and mega intense stuff in winter when you're forced to stay indoors and the longer L2 and L3 work (with kitchen sink L4, 5 and 6) in the summer? Why force yourself to hours of stationary training indoors when there's no event as such during the summer?