It's killing me but..........

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by Sillyoldtwit, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    Thanks for the warm welcome.

    Swampy, those power cranks are interesting. Once my gains slow down I'll definitely give them a try.

    RDO, definitely agree. The difference in recovery between 90% and 100% is huge.

    Felt, what are your weights numbers doing? You have gone down in body weight a good bit, is your strength still holding steady / improving?

    Also, you had mentioned triathletes holding 90% for iron distance bike races, It might be higher than that even. Times from sprint triathlons where much of the race is done over 100%, where the distance is 1/8 of an iron distance, have times close to 1/8 of the iron distance, with the run being where most of the slowdown occurs. Sprint a 5k sure, sprint a marathon after doing the other 2 events, ehhh.

    My background is as a triathlete, after a disasterous 2013 season where I spent 99% of the year out with a string of major injuries, I got back on the bike in may. I did an L1/L2 base building period for 5 months, my vo2max started at 28 ml/kg/min, basically reflecting bed rest. I retested it 2 months ago and had 130 watts at my vo2max of 34.6. This is done with gas exchange and 2 minutes a level ramp test while fasted. It also tells me my fat utilization %, and my HR per 5 intensity zones, and my HR at LT threshold. Once I hit 200 watts FTP I'll go check it again.

    Base training didn't help my FTP any, so I started this week doing 136 watts for 1x60, finished friday at 151 1x60, did 155 for 20 minutes yesterday but had to leave, definitely could have done 155 for the hour. I'm improving by 5-6 watts a workout, this is my second week of L4 work, so still very much in the honeymoon. Definitely at 90% during these workouts, going up 10 watts instead of 5 is much more taxing, and holding much more than that for an hour is out of the question.

    Cheers to a great week of training.
     


  2. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    ugh....you had to ask that question :)

    The best way to describe strength training is I am just trying to slow down the decline. Some would like to call it maintenance lifting or fitness lifting, but the truth is if your are not focused on improving 1 rep max you really are not strength training and so I am slowly losing strength and have been since about 2004. But I am still trying to fight the good fight. :)

    Cycling really impact being fresh enough to squat near maximum weight or even up into the 70% range. I train legs tomorrow and I did 80 miles at endurance level on Saturday and another 40 today at endurance. The best I will probably be doing in the morning will be light squats, leg press and hack squats. I will go as heavy as I can, but with the fatigue it won't be enough to stimulate strength or progressive training. At least not at the level I used to train when my sole focus was to stay fresh for squat day. Cycling training is winning the adaptation battle between the two activities.

    Upper body I have to work around some shoulder injuries from a past and recent crash on my left shoulder. I haven't been able to flat bench since the last crash a few weeks ago. I train around injuries and trouble areas the best I can. I can do incline bench without any discomfort, but I am pretty weak.
     
  3. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    Felt, ah I should have realized that. Hope the shoulder heals quickly.

    Got on the trainer today and wasn't feeling it. Checked my log and it was my 10th hard day in a row, and 21st day without a real rest day. I want to keep watching my power shoot up, but resting today and maybe tomorrow is more important. I use a Heart Rate Variability Monitor to keep from overtraining, it's definitely useful. Up to 161 1x60, training core and grip 3-4x a week as well.
     
  4. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    jiberish, I like that someone is in this pain zone with me and driving toward progress :)
    Way to go on pushing it and yet listening to your body.

    I am just about at the same point as well and I am considering an active rest week with reduced intensity. I don't think I need to get off the bike for a week. Mentally I am in good shaped (motivated), but I can tell my legs are getting closer to the brink. I don't think they need full rest, but just a little time to catch up and gut feeling is they can with an easier week.

    For the past number of weeks I have added a bit more spice (upped the % in TrainerRoad workout) incrementally each week. Last night I was worn out from the work day and late getting home. I felt tired, rushed and had to go with a shorter warm up. I upped the intensity just a touch more compared to last Tuesday and just about did not make it through the first interval. For the remaining 3 I had to reduce the intensity down into the L4 range. I think I am getting to the point where progression is getter much harder and I am starting to feel like I am just about at the point that I need to reduce the intensity for a week and then start again with another block of weeks.

    To stay accountable, organized and try to keep on track I created a page on my blog. Pretty humble numbers compared to those that race, but I am having fun as a recreational cyclist. http://thecyclingaddiction.blogspot.com/p/kickr-trainerroad.html
    The widget that I embedded on my blog did not fit fully within the space and it added scroll bars when looking at it on a PC. On my phone the scroll bars do not work and I can only see part of the table.

    Tonight my target is 2 x 20 at 230. With the residual fatigue from previous days I will do good to hit that number. I am fearing Thursday when I am supposed to do 4 x 10's because the fatigue continues to mound up. I do take Friday's off mainly to spend some time hanging out with my wife and to rest up for a longer ride on Saturday.

    Sounds to me that you are resilient and motivated. Those are good signs IMO.
     
  5. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Had a fun ride Monday night. Still somewhat infuriating that I can't get anywhere near riding in the drops, even with the bars up high but at least there was no pain. Riding 12 mph at 220 watts into a headwind on a flat road (because I'm the "human windsock") isn't much fun I tell ya... Frequent gentle stretching is working well. Really liking riding the Cannondale with the new wheels. Not to sure about the ISM Attack saddle - it seems a bit too narrow. Hmmmm...
     
  6. bgoetz

    bgoetz Member

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    Weight Weenies!! Yeah and that is about all I said, lol For some reason after not looking at this forum since June I decided to stop in and see how everyone was doing. Good to see all the familiar players and a couple new ones. The level of dedication some of you guys have to cycling speaks volumes, you out lasted me!! As for myself, I manage maybe 5hrs a week now, a big change from 20+ a week before. I will depart again with one peice of advice though, while the saying "it never gets easier, you only get faster", might be true. The oposite is not at all, not only do you get slower it gets harder!!!
     
  7. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    Swampy, I got a Cobb Plus saddle yesterday. It says in the reviews that someone changed from an ISM and really liked it. After 1 ride it's better than the previous saddle, but just about any seat would be.

    Nice to hear from you bgoetz, enjoy your 15 extra hours with your family. 5 hours a week is still enough time for some great L4 work :)

    Does anyone with bigger legs have a recommendation for bike shorts?
     
  8. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Shorts with bigger legs.

    :)
     
  9. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    Swampy, how about a speedo with a gel pad? It should accommodate the size while providing adequate airflow. Naturally it will be bright yellow.

    In the name of science I have decided to cryogenically freeze myself for ~2 minutes. According to the literature this will fix muscle damage, greatly decrease inflammation, and fully restore muscle strength. It also burns about 500 calories. Scheduled for Tuesday so I have a few days to suitably toast the legs.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0027749

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S030645650800106X

    The proposed mechanism is that by stepping into a freezer, the body thinks it is actually food. Sensing the impending meal and not wanting to disappoint the host, it readies the muscles for peak quality. Upon leaving the freezer, the body feels passed over and decides to lose weight for next time.
     
  10. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Whatever you choose to do in the privacy of your own home is upto you - but I wouldn't personally venture outside in bright yellow speedos and what'd appear to be a maxi-pad stuffed between your thighs. What literature suggests you'd lose weight doing that and where does one buy a freezer big enough to walk into for domestic use? :p
     
  11. jsirabella

    jsirabella New Member

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    Effects of Whole-Body Cryotherapy vs. Far-Infrared vs. Passive Modalities on Recovery from Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage in Highly-Trained Runners
    SAY THAT THREE TIMES FAST....

    Just lurking and could not pass this one up.
     
  12. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Passive modalities. Is that where you just lay there for a happy ending?
     
  13. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    The literature doesn't mention weightloss, but the center it's done at says it burns 500-800 calories. I'm guessing reheating oneself from 0C at the skins surface takes a good bit of energy. There are several companies selling these devices to pro athletes for ~45,000 euros.

    The paper said passive modalities failed to achieve full recovery, which has to be frustrating.
     
  14. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    Interesting week so far. Did sprints on Sunday, got a max of 710W for 3-5? seconds. That's double what I had a few months ago, and I can probably double it again based on how powerful I was during my football years. Did 168 for 1x44 yesterday, fell short due to bike shorts riding up and ruining my day. Hopped in a hyperbaric chamber for 90 minutes, felt great until about an hour afterwards when I totally bonked. Some days I suck at eating. I really like hyperbarics, they are as relaxing as a few beers, help everything recover especially the poorly vascularized areas, and are good places to study or nap. For sports training the amount of time (90 minutes) and amount of extra recovery + need to use it after every workout makes it impractical unless you turn it into your bed chamber. At 10k for an at home unit, ehhhhh.

    Did 174 for 15 today, dropped to 168 for another 9 and had to quit because I was out of food energy. Skipped the cryo appointment because shocking my system while already depleted is not going to help. Lots more L4 planned this week, and a session in a floatation chamber. My plan was to compare all 3 treatments this week and then try to schedule a couple a month as appropriate. So far the best value extra recovery treatment is the foam roller, followed by a juicer.
     
  15. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    While the foam roller is good, I still think you can't beat some good food and a nap/extra hours sleep... Ice, hyberbaric chamber - dude, just ride the bike. If you can sit in a chamber for 90 minutes, you could have ridden the bike easy for that amount of time and got nice and loose. Perfect time not only to relax but also to get used to riding in the drops and getting nice and low. Go faster while relaxing... I've got a few shortish rides in this past week and while things are getting better I still have to be mindful of getting out of the saddle or twisting to look over my shoulder before junctions... Getting better but nowhere near as quickly as I'd hoped.
     
  16. jiberish2014

    jiberish2014 New Member

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    I'll give the extra time in L1 a definite go, thanks. Any recommendation on rollers? Are the emotion rollers worth the extra $600 compared to the Kinetic z motion rollers?
     
  17. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    I have neither of those. I went for the very industrial mag unit shown here: http://www.hscycle.com/Pages/slocumtrainers.html Bombproof and takes a beating. For very high intensity work I don't want to have to deal with having to balance. Back in the 90s I trained on a Kingcycle unit that was similar and very effective. If I ever get to the point where I'm doing 1 minute intervals at almost full gas with only 1 minute inbetween, I want my front wheel clamped and bike held in a vice like grip. I can't imaging losing my lunch on some rollers. Puke, slip and crash? Yikes. As for L1 - Utiliize rest days for L1 or even tack on 10 to 15 minutes at the end of a session (don't reduce the training time - increase the time on the bike if possible) to ease out the legs after a hard effort. Keep form good but relax and smell the roses - or exhaust fumes if you're in a city... It's also a very good time to finish any carb drink you may have to start taking carbs on board.
     
  18. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

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    Ease back a few watts on the first intervals on "jacks" and "gray." You don't need to kill yourself in the 8 minute efforts. Unless you're keeping a set rest time between efforts, I'd also consider adding an extra few minutes rest in between the efforts on 'jacks.'

    If you have extra time, take a longer rest otherwise knock the first couple of efforts down 10 watts or so and see if you have any legs left for the final two efforts. You want to be hitting the wattage on the last effort. It may/may not work for you but I used to find that consciously making sure my shoulders and arms were relaxed and I was somewhat semi-gracefully "belly breathing" rather than trying to expand my ribcage. Nothing is graceful during VO2 efforts, OK Jelle Nijdam managed to look fluid and fast during prologues but he was a hard b*stard extraordinaire, but big breaths and try and relax. Do whatever it takes to try and avoid tensing up.

    YMMV but turn off the music for 'jacks' unless you have an 8 minute song that's exactly at the right tempo.
     
  19. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    +1 on the relaxation of upper body advice. I also try to focus on my stroke during these efforts. When I say focus, I mean focus, on every single downstroke. I try to maintain my cadence to within one RPM of my target and I try to get off the gas as early as possible on each stroke. It's strange, but concentrating on my stroke allows me to forget I'm hurting.
     
  20. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    Thanks for the tips

    I'm in sort of rest week this week where I dialed back the intensity and then next week I hope to start to ramp up again for another block. Well that is if I can get home to train. I have a project that is due by the end of the year and we are currently way behind. Longer days waking up before 4 am to get to the gym, get to work to do my overtime in the morning hours and then try to get home in get in an hour on the trainer.

    Putting in dialed back week right now will hopefully let me reset enough to finish out the year with another good block of training.

    I use a certain Pandora station that is like electronic trance music. Most of the songs match up well with my cadence target.

    The workouts are downloads from TrainerRoad, but I have customized two of them to extend rest from 1 minute to 2 minutes so I just let the app and erg mode direct the effort. I can typically hold to the 2 minute rest time, but 3 to 5 minutes would be nice. At the moment the programmed workouts are right at the 1 hour mark counting warm up to cool down and that literally is about the extent of my available time right now.

    I would like to finish out 2014 with what I told RDO that I wanted to accomplish this year and that is improve my L4+ time compared to previous years. I just hope I can get through this work deadline quickly so I can accomplish that goal. That being said I need to get to work so I can get home and train...........

    [​IMG]
     
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