It's killing me but..........



managed a new pb today of 350W for 15 minutes and ftp of 325, that's an increase of 25W in the last month and i'm down to 67Kg! Only problem i'm finding now is i'm too quick up the hills so i'm unable to do 20 min intervals up any!
 
That's impressive! It doesn't sound to me like your slacking at all. It always pays off, though, right? Nothing feels better than the rush you get from working that hard!
 
It's been a while

I suppose the only goal I've had other than just attempt to improve overall is to attempt a SOLO sub 5 hour century.

I think the conditions were right for the attempt on Saturday, but I wasn't really even thinking it about. In fact the only reason I went to 100 because a friend was kidding with me and asked if I was going to do 100 miles. As I rolled out I thought why not since I typically do an 80 mile route.

The bad thing was I really did not have it in mind and kept my intensity down lower just to see how I would feel. It was a sustained light headwind all the way up, which in this case made for a sustained tailwind on the way back. Pushing against the wind wasn't too hard and then coming back with the tailwind I really did not take advantage of the condition. It wasn't until I reached the 90 mile mark that it hit me that I could have potentially done this ride at the 5 hour mark had I thought about it. I say potentially because I still may not have the fitness to pull this off yet.

I think it was less to do with me and more toward the conditions that would have been the perfect day to give it a try. Sure I finished with 38 minutes moving time over the mark, but it was one of those things that my gut feeling (low IF) is I could have done it had I tried from the start. I lost most of my time at the start riding fairly casually because I was considering it to be just another training day at endurance pace. Having a fresh set of Conti GP4000s and staying down in aero on the TT bike also helped save some energy.

Here are the basic metrics for the ride

[SIZE=xx-small]Entire workout (133 watts):[/SIZE]
Duration: 5:38:54 (5:45:45)
Work: 2711 kJ
TSS: 287.7 (intensity factor 0.714)
Norm Power: 154
VI: 1.15
Distance: 100.489 mi
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 521 133 watts
Cadence: 5 105 74 rpm
Speed: 0 33.8 17.9 mph
Pace 1:47 0:00 3:21 min/mi
Crank Torque: 0 1475 155 lb-in

[SIZE=xx-small]I do know this that at the end I was thinking about those who do a double century. When I got to the end of the ride I could not imagine doing that route twice.[/SIZE]
 
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I've just completed my FTP test and it seems I'm at 170 watts. My max heart rate is 180 however, during the test (20 minutes) I started at 160 and ramped slowly up to 175. I've always been able to "dig deep" but do you think I'm going too hard as I read that others are well below their max, in the ~85% range.
For what it's worth I'm 63.
Bill.
 
But enduring is the only option that's left. Train hard. The rewards await you. Cycling is a very competitive sport and it is training that gives you the edge.
 
My goodness you're 63 year old? Are you sure your not lying? You're statistics are so unbelievable.
BILLYHOLMES said:
I've just completed my FTP test and it seems I'm at 170 watts. My max heart rate is 180 however, during the test (20 minutes) I started at 160 and ramped slowly up to 175. I've always been able to "dig deep" but do you think I'm going too hard as I read that others are well below their max, in the ~85% range.
For what it's worth I'm 63.
Bill.
My goodness you're 63 year old? Are you sure your not lying? You're statistics are so unbelievable.
 
I'm on my way to 72 years old and normally do rides of 35 or more miles (often 50 - 60) normally with 2,000 or more feet of climbing at a VERY slow pace: average speed of a little over 10 mph up to a little less than 13. I do not push myself simply because the only effect it has is to tire me out to the point of slowing up a great deal.

So how do you explain that on one of the local short evening rides, 7 or so miles, up a climb that, starting from dead last, I left 16 riders behind passing each one on the climbs and at the top actually having to wait five minutes for the first one to get up there? The oldest one of the group beat me to the top and he was 55 and my brother. The rest were at least 10 years younger than him and several were members of the fast group.

So the question arises - what do you gain from extreme workouts after you get over age 30 or so and are physically limited by your cardiac capacity and not your muscle power?

I have read all of the so-called training manuals and have never gotten any additional power or endurance by following restrictive regimes. Perhaps in my 20's they may have made a difference but after you ride so much there isn't much improvement you can get from riding hard. Though it makes the local college kids feel supermen to fly by me when they are doing their 10 mile training rides. And it does tick off the older guys that will ride off of the front of the group on a hard climb while I ride on the back and finally get tired of them doing that and make up 2 minutes on them in a mile.

And no amount of training is going to do much for you in a heavy headwind. I'm 6'4" and over two feet wide Fighting a headwind accomplishes nothing. Unless you don't mind arriving home so exhausted that you can't go out for three days.

So, the question is: why is everyone using performance and training as some sort of measure of the fun of cycling? Most performance issues are not from training but physiological limitations. Unless you are young and racing, if you want more benefits from your rides you don't ride harder - you ride longer at the same speed.
 
Hi people, I am 13 years of age and have been cycling for 7 months regularly now and I ride 16mph on my road bike over 30-50 miles. is this a good speed or do you have any advice for my speed increasing? thanks
 
Hi people, I am 13 years of age and have been cycling for 7 months regularly now and I ride 16mph on my road bike over 30-50 miles. is this a good speed or do you have any advice for my speed increasing? thanks

Jamie, it makes a difference what sort of terrain you're riding on but on flat ground a 16-18 mph average is doing well. Especially for a 13 year old. Throw in a couple of 1,000 ft. hills and 16 mph would be very fast. Though we do have a 14 year old that shows up with his father and can hold those sorts of averages up hills all day long.t he started at 5 years old when his father made him ride to school.

It will probably take you a year to get in real riding shape and then another year before you do everything correct automatically and then you can train according to the training manuals. But be sure and pay close attention to the timing of the easy and hard efforts - that's pretty critical.
 
Hi people, I am 13 years of age and have been cycling for 7 months regularly now and I ride 16mph on my road bike over 30-50 miles. is this a good speed or do you have any advice for my speed increasing? thanks

Hi Jamie. I suggest joining a road cycling club. Many clubs have very active junior / youth sections with people of all abilities. You'll then get to ride with others your age and hopefully get a bit of coaching.
 
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I'm on my way to 72 years old and normally do rides of 35 or more miles (often 50 - 60) normally with 2,000 or more feet of climbing at a VERY slow pace: average speed of a little over 10 mph up to a little less than 13. I do not push myself simply because the only effect it has is to tire me out to the point of slowing up a great deal.
There is certainly something to be said to the "ride lots" philosophy. Average speed depends upon a lot, including whether you are dealing with a heavy wind and flying down the downhills. You could get a nice workout if you are pushing very steep hills at 13 mph.

So how do you explain that on one of the local short evening rides, 7 or so miles, up a climb that, starting from dead last, I left 16 riders behind passing each one on the climbs and at the top actually having to wait five minutes for the first one to get up there? The oldest one of the group beat me to the top and he was 55 and my brother. The rest were at least 10 years younger than him and several were members of the fast group.
There are lots of explanations: you are riding lots more than the other folks in the group; the group is not particularly fast or fit; you are getting some quality work in your "ride lots" routine; you have very good riding technique; exceptional genetics, etc

So the question arises - what do you gain from extreme workouts after you get over age 30 or so and are physically limited by your cardiac capacity and not your muscle power?
It depends upon how you define "extreme." Most in this thread advocate coming up with a good sense of what their FTP is a fashioning quality workouts in the sweet spot, as opposed to riding in any extreme zone or doing anything extreme. I think the idea is balancing quality along with quantity. In an endurance sport like cycling, at any age, you are generally limited by your cardiac capacity (VO2 Max) as opposed to your muscle power. The question is how long can you hold a pace near your functional limit, which is determined in no small part by your "cardiac capacity." There are other factors including how aero you are on the bike, drafting skills, pacing, etc.

I have read all of the so-called training manuals and have never gotten any additional power or endurance by following restrictive regimes.
Again, what do you mean by "restrictive regimes?" Are you riding in Saudi Arabia? There is a lot to be said to the "ride lots" routine, particularly if there is quality work being done on those many miles. Some don't have the time to simply ride lots, or want to get more out of our limited training time. There is a great deal of research behind certain training protocols. None of the masters podium finishers are simply rolling their bikes out of there garage and riding aimless miles at a VERY slow pace. They are riding intervals to get them to higher zones at higher speeds.

Perhaps in my 20's they may have made a difference but after you ride so much there isn't much improvement you can get from riding hard.
Even Masters level racers are following routines where they "ride hard" on during specified intervals or periods. None of them are simply riding much.

Though it makes the local college kids feel supermen to fly by me when they are doing their 10 mile training rides. And it does tick off the older guys that will ride off of the front of the group on a hard climb while I ride on the back and finally get tired of them doing that and make up 2 minutes on them in a mile.
I can't imagine college age racers are simply doing 10 mile training rides. At a 22-23 mph pace, they would be riding less than 30 minutes? They might be riding hard intervals of that distance but they are not riding 10 mile training rides unless they are sprinters.

And no amount of training is going to do much for you in a heavy headwind. I'm 6'4" and over two feet wide Fighting a headwind accomplishes nothing. Unless you don't mind arriving home so exhausted that you can't go out for three days.
The whole point of training smart is to develop the capacity to ride in a headwind, ride up a hill, ride faster. This generally is a function of increasing FTP or your ability to generate power, Watts, over time. At your size and footprint, there might be some low hanging gains from just learning to stay on the drops while you ride in the wind or getting some aero bars. After those gains are made, it is all a function of watts.

So, the question is: why is everyone using performance and training as some sort of measure of the fun of cycling? Most performance issues are not from training but physiological limitations. Unless you are young and racing, if you want more benefits from your rides you don't ride harder - you ride longer at the same speed.

I am not sure that anybody is saying that performance and training is a measure of the fun of cycling. I believe they are saying that training smart can improve performance at all levels and age groups. There are lots of people who continue racing into their 70s and beyond. The 55+ category is very competitive and fast. Some local events will have 60+ or other categories. Many Gran Fondos have 75+ groups.

Simply riding longer at constant speed will train you to ride long distances at a constant speed. If you want to go faster, you have to ride faster. If that's your thing, riding a long time on your bike at a steady 10-13 mph pace, and its fun to you, then do that. Some people, even non-racers, like to go faster. In order to go faster, we have to ride faster and at paces that will improve aerobic performance. You would be surprised how little time you need if you train smarter. At 50, I rarely ride longer than 50 miles, and usually keep my hard training sessions under an hour; but I can still do a Century at a nice clip, or ride a nice long charity event at averages well above 13mph In my neck of the woods, we will climb 2400 feet in about 30 miles and average.
 
In the last 6 months I have dropped 20kg. Still jiggle a little so plan to spend the next six months dropping another 10kg. No plans for rides or races just want to enjoy getting out on the bike and doing some more riding with the people I coach.

Only issue is the track riders I coach say I no use to shelter behind when motorpacing. Also find it harder on indoor tracks to keep the moto down in the racing lane when going 70kph!
 
I think you're right about my tolerance for total volume at fairly high average stress levels, even though I probably ride my intervals at a lower power than most.
"

This is not something that sneaks up on you. Early last year I could ride continuously at 21 and hold 28 for about 20 minutes. Almost overnight I went to having a hard time exceeding 17 mph and becoming exhausted from a 50 mile ride.

I can still do 15 minutes at a good rate but that's about it. And training has no effect anymore.

I intend to talk to my doctor about it but I suspect this is nothing more than normal since I've watched the same thing happen to the people I've ridden with over the years.
 
Hi all,
It has been quite some time and just wanted to let everyone know that I have not fallen off of the planet!

After my last post in March of last year I continued messing around a bit, just riding and occasionally jumping in local club races. At some point last spring my power meter broke and I elected to not fix it and just rode my bike. I did manage to bring the "hurt" to some of the local guys a few times, then some family stuff happened, life changes and I rode much less.

However, some of those life changes resulted in a move 3hrs south, out of the flat farmlands and into the forested hills, which put me close to lots of great MTB trails. So around October I picked up a MTB and got the "bug" again. One thing lead to another and before I knew it, I was on a great team, with some super strong guys and had some big goals set for 2016!

So after basically 18 months off, I have been back officially training since December 1st (I can't say back racing because I have not actually raced yet, lol). My focus will be the NUE series, which both align well with my strengths and our team goals.

To say training is going well would be an understatement. With access to great trails right from my doorstep my skills have improved beyond what I ever thought possible, additionally I have surrounded myself with some talented guys who have aided significantly in that improvement. With regards to fitness, I am doing things a bit different.

I still sorta follow a SST type routine, the only power I ever see is on my Computrainer which I am consistently on throughout the week, and I have not given a thought to TSS, CTL, or TSB since May 2014. The only thought that I give to FTP is to set my efforts on the trainer. Basically I have been training structured, but flexible, with a major emphasis on proper recovery. I prioritize my workouts each week and shuffle things as needed to have the best quality possible during high priority workouts. I recover fully after "big hits", no more putting myself into a hole. However, with only 1hr available to train M-F, I strive to maintain consistency, so I do not plan any recovery days, taking them when needed and trying for as much active recovery as possible. Additionally, I have been making the most of my lunches by running stairs.

The results I have seen is surprising, the gains since October significant. While I don't think I am back to where I was physically during my peak form in 2014, I am close and it is only January! Mentally, I couldn't be fresher, more motivated, and more excited about this season and I really don't see that changing.

I am certainly not saying that what I am doing is right or that all of the things I ditched are wrong, heck maybe I just needed 18 months off. However, the more I follow this simplistic approach, the more I come to realize that being a slave to a chart was no good for me.

I am really excited to get out there this season and have come to terms with accepting whatever result comes my way. Heck just finishing some of these races are an accomplishment. So, look for my name on the results pages for some NUE races, hopefully you don't need to scroll too far down, but I am ok either way! I doubt I spend much time on the forums and really don't wish to debate how I train vs how others do, so if you are curious as to what I am doing your best bet is to follow me on Strava

Brent
 
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Hi Guys
Haven't posted for some time now. After one and another setback, am finally getting down to some serious sessions on the Computrainer. Feeling the old buzz as I head towards a 250Watt FTP, the 74th birthday in August and preparation for the Norikura Skyline climb (the highest mountain road in Japan). See pic below.
 

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Wow, that's very beautiful and I wish you the best of luck on conquering that! I almost want to go there myself that's how beautiful it is.
 
At the risk of seeming contradictory, this does not square with my own experience, nor, I would wager, with that of most cyclists. After a day with more than 40 minutes or so in L4, my ability to do quality work the next day is compromised; not completely shot, mind you, but definitely compromised. I can do consecutive days of L4, but at higher perceived effort. Maybe I've overestimated my threshold, but I don't think so. I'm probably not alone in this regard.

Judging from discussions of your training in the power forum, RDO, it seems that you are able to handle very, very high acute and chronic training loads, much more so than most folks. For instance, you consider a 1000TSS week routine, whereas a 900TSS week for me constitutes serious overreaching. Optimal training load varies from individual to individual, and more isn't always better.

Taking a step back for a moment, RDO, your eagerness to belittle other folks' training loads on this forum worries me a little bit. It worries me because a) you're a very intelligent, persuasive man, so people are likely to take you seriously and b) everything I can gather (your age, your threshold power and VO2max, your training load, etc.) suggests that you're phenomenally talented. It's awesome that day after day of 200TSS with as much time as possible at L4 and above has worked so well for you, but honestly, I suspect anything would work well for you, because you have the genes of a phenomenal endurance athlete. Bannister broke the 4 minute barrier on a ridiculously light (by today's world-class standards) training load, and endurance sport at all levels is full of similar examples of remarkable performances by modestly trained individuals.

I have to agree with this. However loads that are carefully measured in a gym do not represent actual road conditions at all.