It's true - h*lm*ts cause accidents

[Just zis Guy, you know?]

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:38:10 GMT, Anthony Cox
<[email protected]> wrote in message
<[email protected]>:

>Funny, because when I hit a tree, I was bloody glad the branches belted
>the top of the helmet, instead of my balding pate!

After a Several of years of experience in having a head finishing just
over six of the BRITONS feet from the ground, I tend to miss
overhanging branches *unless* I'm wearing a helmet, which makes me
that bit taller and ruins the carefully-trained reflexes. Axe shirley
I can't think of a single time when I've hit my head on an overhanging
branch riding unhelmeted.

Too and as well, a significant proportion of injuries prevented by yer
actual polystyrene foam deflector beanie would, in my opinion, be
equally prevented by any Stout Hat.


Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

 

[RogerDodger]

Anthony Cox <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>
>Hands up who thinks trading anecdotes about helmets is a scientific way
>of judging their efficacy?
>

Well, the exceptions can be revealing about the rule.
And we all like to hear about other people's accidents!

--
Sue ];)

Ahh, but what is the rule and what are the exceptions?

It seems clear to anyone who has the ability to keep the illusionary thinking under control that the rule is that cycle helmets don't provide any real protection - yep, that's the rule. As for exceptions?

Well, thats where 'scientific' thinking comes in - (also called critical thinking).
To ensure your'e not simply "believing what you want to believe" you have to ask yourself some probing questions. Like when you have a crash and a spurt out that the helmet prevented such-and-such from happening - the question that cuts to the chase is "How would you know that?"

I see, the helmet prevented that ____ from happening because helmets have a protective power? Ain't that so?

That reminds me of the Moliere story. How's it go...the learned Doctor is asked how it is that opium puts people to sleep... "because of its dormitive power" comes the reply.

Circular reasoning - same thing happens here and now in the 21 st century - human intelligence hasn't made much ground, so it seems - How do cycle helmets prevent head injuries? - because of their "protective power" - 'cos that's what they do! Doh!

Roger

 

[dkahn400]

RogerDodger wrote:

> Well, thats where 'scientific' thinking comes in - (also called
> critical thinking).
> To ensure your'e not simply "believing what you want to believe"
> you have to ask yourself some probing questions. Like when you
> have a crash and a spurt out that the helmet prevented such-and-such
> from happening - the question that cuts to the chase is "How would
> you know that?"

I've seen an interview with an ambulance driver enthusing about the
desirability of helmets for cyclists. "When they regain consciousness
we show them the broken helmet," he beamed. So that's a failed helmet
coupled with a brain injury, yet he was convinced this was a
demonstration of their efficacy. The power of persuasion.

--
Dave...

 

[LSMike]

"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I've seen an interview with an ambulance driver enthusing about the
> desirability of helmets for cyclists. "When they regain consciousness
> we show them the broken helmet," he beamed. So that's a failed helmet
> coupled with a brain injury, yet he was convinced this was a
> demonstration of their efficacy. The power of persuasion.
>
> --
> Dave...

I've seen that mentioned several times here. What I'd like to understand is
how do you know that a crack means the helmet did or didn't absorb any
force? It might well be brittle failure, but might it not equally be that
the helmet deformed as supposedly designed at the impact site, and that
deformation then resulted in a tear either side of the deformation zone?

I've seen a couple of broken helmets where there were two cracks, a little
way to either side of the impact point. IANAE.

 

[David Hansen]

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:27:57 +0000 (UTC) someone who may be "LSMike"
<[email protected]> wrote this:-

>What I'd like to understand is
>how do you know that a crack means the helmet did or didn't absorb any
>force?

It absorbed some force. The question is how much it absorbed
compared to how much it would have absorbed if it worked as
intended.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me by using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Peter Keller]

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:29:22 +0100, Sue White wrote:

> Anthony Cox <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>>
>>Hands up who thinks trading anecdotes about helmets is a scientific way
>>of judging their efficacy?
>>
>
> Well, the exceptions can be revealing about the rule.
> And we all like to hear about other people's accidents!

Here is one of mine: Bicycling slowly (many walkers around) didn't see
chain across path. Over handlebars, straight onto top of head (ashphalt
road). Sit up, head seems fine, neck very stiff and sore and was for 2
weeks afterwards. Before you say the helmet saved me, I wasn't wearing a
helmet.
And another: Biking fast to work. Van stopped in side street, waiting to
turn into main. Waited for me, but to late I saw the overhanging pipes
from the roof of the van in front of me. I ducked at the last minute and
got a big bang on the head, Bump, blood etc. Looked around, and the
surroundings looked familiar, rather than clouds and angels etc. Carried
on to work. Once again, no helmet.
Speculation: If I were wearing a helmet the pipes would have caught under
its lid and ripped my head off.

Peter

--
If you are careful enough in life, nothing bad -- or
good -- will ever happen to you.

 

[Richard]

Peter Keller wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:29:22 +0100, Sue White wrote:
>
>
>>Anthony Cox <[email protected]> whizzed past me shouting
>>
>>>Hands up who thinks trading anecdotes about helmets is a scientific way
>>>of judging their efficacy?
>>>
>>
>>Well, the exceptions can be revealing about the rule.
>>And we all like to hear about other people's accidents!

Hit the dreaded shimmy hurtling down a hill with a sharp right turn (and
raised grassy bank) at the bottom. Tried to brake, shimmy got
extremely violent, gave up braking and tried to turn into the curve,
didn't make it, hit the bank at an angle and went over the bars landing
on my head. Possibly unconscious for a second or two. Lay there,
decided all my limbs were still there and no serious internal injuries,
got up, started to cycle home, found out derailleur was knackered, gave
up, put bike and me in train/taxi, got home feeling achy all over,
soaked in bath with painkiller, slept, woke up next morning fine.

Wasn't wearing a helmet. Perhaps if I'd been wearing a helmet I
wouldn't have ached all over that night as it would've protected my
arm/shoulder/back/neck/etc.

R.

 

[Sue White]

Richard <[email protected]>
whizzed past me shouting
>
>Hit the dreaded shimmy hurtling down a hill with a sharp right turn
>(and raised grassy bank) at the bottom. Tried to brake, shimmy got
>extremely violent, gave up braking and tried to turn


Can anyone comment on the suggestion that you can stop the shimmy by
pressing your leg against the frame?

--
Sue ]

 

[Helen Deborah Vecht]

Richard <[email protected]>typed


> Wasn't wearing a helmet. Perhaps if I'd been wearing a helmet I
> wouldn't have ached all over that night as it would've protected my
> arm/shoulder/back/neck/etc.

Perhaps, if you'd worn a helmet you'd have injured your neck...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email protected]
Edgware.

 

[Mark Thompson]

> Can anyone comment on the suggestion that you can stop the shimmy by
> pressing your leg against the frame?

Didn't work for me, but then I was holding onto the handlebars in a
terrified, vice like grip and was shivering with fear, adrenaline and the
cold so there wasn't much hope.

 

[Anthony Campbell]

On 2005-04-21, Mark Thompson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Can anyone comment on the suggestion that you can stop the shimmy by
>> pressing your leg against the frame?
>
> Didn't work for me, but then I was holding onto the handlebars in a
> terrified, vice like grip and was shivering with fear, adrenaline and the
> cold so there wasn't much hope.

It certainly can work, at least on some bikes. It did on one that I had;
in fact, just touching the top of the stem with one finger was enough to
stop it.

Shimmy seems to depend on particular harmonic frequencies which are
easily altered. A similar effect used to occur in the days when people
wrote on blackboards with chalk. Hardly anyone seemed to know that you
could stop a squeak simply by breaking a bit off the end of the chalk.

Anthony

--
Using Linux GNU/Debian - Windows-free zone
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
Assassins, homeopathy, and skeptical articles).
Email: replace "www" with "ac@"

 

[Richard]

Anthony Campbell wrote:

> Shimmy seems to depend on particular harmonic frequencies which are
> easily altered. A similar effect used to occur in the days when people
> wrote on blackboards with chalk. Hardly anyone seemed to know that you
> could stop a squeak simply by breaking a bit off the end of the chalk.

Speaking as someone who does write on a blackboard with chalk almost
daily, I can assert that modern chalk has a build-in ASRM: Automatic
Squeak Reduction Mechanism. Every few minutes a bit breaks off
automatically.

R.

 

[Richard]

Sue White wrote:

>> Hit the dreaded shimmy hurtling down a hill with a sharp right turn
>> (and raised grassy bank) at the bottom. Tried to brake, shimmy got
>> extremely violent, gave up braking and tried to turn
>
>
>
> Can anyone comment on the suggestion that you can stop the shimmy by
> pressing your leg against the frame?

It works (for certain values of me, my bike, conditions, etc). However,
I didn't know this useful piece of information at the time.

R.